S.B.T.C. / Ransom Note Merged

[Wudge]

Bean, did you see that Wudge posted that Karr was in Colorado, like it was a sure thing. Wudge is such a stickler for the facts, that I wish he'd let us know what led him to this conclusion.

Wudge


Scandi

I posted that Karr placed himself in Colorado, confessions work that way.

 

[scandi]

Sorry Wudge, I thought you said he was in Colorado.

 

[Wudge]

Sorry Wudge, I thought you said he was in Colorado.

If a plea deal is not forged, Karr's attorney will need something like the alleged 1996 Xmas photos of Karr at home that his former wife thought she might have. Unless clear exonerating evidence exists, overcoming a confession is not something any defense attorney wants to face.

 

[julianne]

I'm coming in late and I'll admit I haven't read all of the posts...but does anyone else think the address on the job application is strange? 4000 Paces Ferry Road, Atlanta, Ga.

Didn't I see this address used in the "Patricia" letters (on candyrose internet subculture site) in the email correspondence between various forum people and an anonymous very weird person who went from writing as if they were the killer to writing as if they were Patsy Ramsey) (No pun intended)

.

Well, cb3, your post intrigued me to no end, so I immediately went to acandyrose and found a reference to the address in the letters & here is the link. The address is referenced in the 3rd paragraph of the letter.

http://jbr_subculture.tripod.com/11-11-1999-03-19-00-FriendToCheesyDearJohn.txt

But I must admit, the whole "Patricia Letters" thing confuses the heck outta me. I would need days to go through it all. Then I would need to go through it all again just to understand all the players. I'm sooooo confused!!!! Was that the Ramsey's actual address in Georgia?

 

[cb3]

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/reddhotts/rh_ramseyprop.html
was posted by NIKEO on another forum. deed transfer record

PROPERTY TRANSFER RECORD FOR FULTON COUNTY, GA


[font=Times New Roman,Times][size=-1]Buyer: RAMSEY, JOHN B; RAMSEY, PATRICIA P[/size][/font]

[font=Times New Roman,Times][size=-1]Seller: WHITEHURST, ELAINE W; WHITEHURST, RICHARD H[/size][/font] [font=Times New Roman,Times][size=-1]Property Address: 4070 PACES FERRY RD NW, ATLANTA, GA 30327[/size][/font]

ANother thing I remember from those letters is a very short reference to Polly Glauss. I'm just wondering if this guy has been communicating with forum folks as well as Tracey for a long time. ??

 

[wenchie]

I just read the ransom note again, with the idea that Karr might have written it.

It doesn't add up. Karr thinks he is in love with Jonbenet, and that's what he calls her - Jonbenet. It the note, she is never named, she's just "your daughter".

Karr thinks of Jonbenet romantically, and yet the note talks about beheading her, and "she dies, she dies, she dies". That doesn't add up to Karr's way of thinking, either.

There's nothing in that note that shows the writer as having fantasies about Jonbenet. The writer distances himself from Jonbenet as a person, and focuses on John Ramsey as a person.

Also, it's hard to imagine geeky Karr referring to himself as a "fat cat".

 

[close_enough]

I just read the ransom note again, with the idea that Karr might have written it.

It doesn't add up. Karr thinks he is in love with Jonbenet, and that's what he calls her - Jonbenet. It the note, she is never named, she's just "your daughter".

Karr thinks of Jonbenet romantically, and yet the note talks about beheading her, and "she dies, she dies, she dies". That doesn't add up to Karr's way of thinking, either.

There's nothing in that note that shows the writer as having fantasies about Jonbenet. The writer distances himself from Jonbenet as a person, and focuses on John Ramsey as a person.

Also, it's hard to imagine geeky Karr referring to himself as a "fat cat".

no, it doesn't add up....i want to know what's in those emails that mentions facts of the investigation, that the public isn't aware of, & of course it would be nice to know if the DA can place Karr in Boulder xmas 96...

as far as "fat cat", i've always pictured that being a kind of comment that Patsy would make...not sure why, just always have, after watching her during interviews & press conferences....

ok,,,,enough here, lol.....it should be against the law to have to work on a sunday....later!

 

[MistyM]

who knows how someone's personality can change in 10 years. maybe he had alot more testosterone in him back then. he seems full of estrogen now. wouldn't that make him a bit more sweet and girly? love this.. love that?

 

[BBB167893]

"As for the information contained in it, I don't see anything we've learned about JMK that would give him the information in the note, i.e. Ramsey's bonus $$. If JMK were sexually interested in JBR, why does he leave this lengthy, "foreign faction" ransom note? JMK might be "sick" but, pedophiles or child molesters normally don't leave this verbage behind. They just assault or abduct their victim and leave."

Right!

"On the Lineup just now Kimberly said a NY newspaper hired an outside handwriting expert who has found that the ransom note and Karr's handwriting is a match!"

I doubt that he made a very thorough examination.

"I don't think so. Meaning the without a doubt part."

There was SOME doubt, but most agreed that since it was in her house with her writing implements, it wasn't likely it could BE anyone else.

"No less than 10 handwriting analysts agreed it was Patsy."

That's right.

"It doesn't add up. Karr thinks he is in love with Jonbenet, and that's what he calls her - Jonbenet. It the note, she is never named, she's just "your daughter"."

And if anyone's forgotten, it was the RAMSEYS who continually refused to refer to her by name!

"as far as "fat cat", i've always pictured that being a kind of comment that Patsy would make...not sure why, just always have, after watching her during interviews & press conferences...."

It was! That was her family's nickname for John.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

SuperDave,good post as always--I have a question--Did John Ramsey state that they've had a burglar alarm for years,its always on,but they forgot to set it that night? and Ramsey supposedly said all the windows and doors were secured before they went to bed? If that's true,then how could any intruder have gotten in?

 

[tumble]

SuperDave,good post as always--I have a question--Did John Ramsey state that they've had a burglar alarm for years,its always on,but they forgot to set it that night? and Ramsey supposedly said all the windows and doors were secured before they went to bed? If that's true,then how could any intruder have gotten in?

No Peter, they had an alarm but it was always OFF.
But ofcourse not something mr average intruder would know.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

ok tumble--thanks

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Even Smit had to admit there were similarities. (However, he refused to examine or even read the conclusions of experts who fingered her as the writer. Mr. Professional! If he's so convinced of their innocence, why is he so afraid?)

Even though I believe the Ramseys are innocent, there's no way that I can deny that there are distinct similarities in the writing. That is very clear. I do believe it's possible, however, that someone could have copied her writing, especially if they had time to practice.

"But realistically speaking, Patsy and John Ramsey are (and were) intelligent people. Why on Earth would either one of them put the exact amount in a ransom note if they wanted to throw off police?"

I'll tell you why! This one's quite easy! Follow me on this: to me, this eliminates John. he wouldn't put his own bonus on it. BUT, since this note is part of the crime scene staging, in light of the VARIOUS conflicting motives in the staging, it makes sense that the writer (Patsy, IMO) would put that in there to make it LOOK like a vengeful employee of John's. That make any sense?

Yep, I can see that too. I can see lots of reasons for that amount; some that support innocence and some that support guilt.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

hi, IMHO,
#7's in JK's job app = flipped Cap F in ransom note
(see Foreign Faction line 3)
#3's in JK's job app = turned ccw Cap W in ransom note
( see We line 1, We line 3 )
Jk's 3's make a peak and a hump,the m's and w's in the ransom note also make a peak and a hump,when turned either counter or clockwise one quater turn,:twocents:

Welcome to WS, bobbysmokes. I don't think that you're reaching at all. There are distinct similarities to JK's writing, IMO. Hopefully LE will be able to find other historical examples of JK's writing to use as comparisons.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

You bring up a good point for excluding the Ramseys. The writer seems to know John Ramsey, perhaps is jealous of him, or is a worker who finally wants to control him. It just doesn't make sense that JMK would've written it. If he was in the house waiting for them to come home that night, you'd think he'd be in JBR's bedroom touching her clothes, her stuffed toys, etc. if he had a 'fascination' with her.

I agree with that but at the same time, there could have been an anger, resentment, or hatred towards the man that "had" JonBenet. Maybe that could have caused him to attempt to violate JR as well by going through JR's things.

Honestly, I think that JMK is WWWAAAYYY out there so I don't think that I could ever find some logical reasoning to anything that he does. I'm not assuming that he's JB's killer - I'm still on the fence about that one. But if he turns out to be the killer, I think that a lot of things will still not make any sense to most of us "normal" folk.

 

[BBB167893]

"Even though I believe the Ramseys are innocent, there's no way that I can deny that there aren't distinct similarities in the writing. That is very clear. I do believe it's possible, however, that someone could have copied her writing, especially if they had time to practice."

Well, let me ask: why did she change her writing after the killing?

 

[curiositycat]

I kept thinking "Where have I heard those words?" I then thought it might have something to do with the bible..in light of the fact one of Karr's sons is named "Seven Exodus". I have an extensive bible program and couldn't find it through a search...then it hit me. I had a Methodist grandmother, and a Presbyterian aunt and uncle I spent a lot of time with as a child. That statement comes from an old protestant hymn. What's weird about it is it's one of those songs that stays in your mind...especially that line. I checked on answer.com and found it through a quotation search. I am copying here...but you can find it yourself.
Make me a captive, Lord,

And then I shall be free;

Force me to render up my sword,

And I shall conqueror be.

I sink in life’s alarms

When by myself I stand;

Imprison me within Thine arms,

And strong shall be my hand.



He seems to have some kind of religious background..and then so did Patsy Ramsey...I personally think SBTC means Saved By the Cross. One of my son's went to a Christian Academy and I saw that written on the kids school books more than once.

Just thought....this might be where he got the Shall Be a Conqueror...if you look it up and listen to the song...just try to get it out of your mind...LOL.

 

[bobbysmokes]

Welcome to WS, bobbysmokes. I don't think that you're reaching at all. There are distinct similarities to JK's writing, IMO. Hopefully LE will be able to find other historical examples of JK's writing to use as comparisons.

yes a nice plain letter to a friend,not to fancy like the year book, or all caps like the app's,the DNA will decide the case but the note has got to be the wierdest peice of evidence ever, what if the DNA does not match,but the handwriting does? that would prove another person was there:twocents:

 

[BBB167893]

"what if the DNA does not match,but the handwriting does? that would prove another person was there"

Not necessarily. A lot of the forensic people say the DNA is just a contaminant.

 

[southcitymom]

I hope this isn't terribly off-topic, but was the ransom note the only thing that was "brought" to the crime scene (even though it wasn't really brought at all, but written onsite) that indicates an intruder was in the house. Other important pieces of evidence (pineapple, paint-brush garrotte, tape, etc...) were in the home. I know there may or may not also be DNA evidence from an outsider. Anyway - I am just interested in reading more regarding what people think indicates any realistic evidence of an intruder. Thanks.