S.B.T.C. / Ransom Note Merged

[JBean]

I hope this isn't terribly off-topic, but was the ransom note the only thing that was "brought" to the crime scene (even though it wasn't really brought at all, but written onsite) that indicates an intruder was in the house. Other important pieces of evidence (pineapple, paint-brush garrotte, tape, etc...) were in the home. I know there may or may not also be DNA evidence from an outsider. Anyway - I am just interested in reading more regarding what people think indicates any realistic evidence of an intruder. Thanks.

Posted by Lovely Pigeon on another thread:

From http://www.rockymountainnews.com/dr...4923124,00.html :

The case for an intruder

Smit has long argued that an intruder killed JonBenet Ramsey. These are the clues he has cited:

• Outdoor footprints: Early in the case, law enforcement leaks said no footprints were seen in snow around the Ramsey house, which seemed to discount the possibility of an intruder. However, Smit examined police photographs taken before 9 a.m., the morning after JonBenet's death that showed much of the perimeter of the house, including walkways, was clear of snow.

• Basement window: Police photographs show an open basement window. The window, hidden from view, would have been a likely point of entry for an intruder. A grate over the window well appeared to have been moved, leaving green foliage caught under its edge. Leaves and debris from the window well were found on the basement floor directly below the open window. There appeared to be less debris next to the central window, which was open, than elsewhere in the window well. Finally, areas of the window appeared to have been wiped clean as if disturbed by someone; a piece of broken glass looked like it had been dislodged; and there was a scuff mark, perhaps from a shoe, below the window.

• Debris in the wine cellar: Pieces of debris from the window well were found in the basement wine cellar, where JonBenet's body was found. They included foam peanut packing material, an autumn leaf and a footprint.

• DNA evidence: Foreign DNA - but not Ramsey family DNA - was found on JonBenet's body, both under her fingernails and in her underwear.

• The suitcase: A hard-sided suitcase was discovered below the open window. The killer, figuring it was safe to go out the way he came in, may have used it to boost himself up. John Ramsey said the suitcase was not in that area of the basement before, suggesting that someone moved it there. In addition, if the suitcase had been under the window for a long time, dust and debris would have collected on it. But little was there.

• Hair and fibers: Many significant hairs and fibers associated with the crime don't belong to John or Patsy. A hair, possibly a pubic hair, from a Caucasian male was found on the blanket covering JonBenet. The hair doesn't match John Ramsey. Light brown, cotton fibers were found on wood shards of the broken paintbrush, the duct tape, the nylon cord and on JonBenet's body.

• The stun gun: Marks on JonBenet's back and face matched those caused by a stun gun. The marks were not on her face the previous evening, according to photos of her opening Christmas presents. Her parents didn't own a stun gun.

• Unidentified footprints: There were unidentified footprints in the mold on the wine cellar floor. Experiments conducted by Smit suggest the fast-growing mold would diffuse footprints quickly, so he believes these were fresh prints. One print appears to be a tread from a shoe but didn't match shoes owned by John and Patsy Ramsey and didn't match any shoes found in the house. Another print belonged to a Hi-Tec boot, which also does not match any shoes owned by the family.

• Ransom note: The letter made frequent allusions to death and violence. It threatened "immediate execution" of JonBenet. There were four consecutive threats ending with "she dies." There's a reference to calling between 8 and 10 "tomorrow morning." To Smit, this suggested the letter was written before midnight, before JonBenet's killing.

• The killer took something away: Because none of the cord or tape was found in the home, and no stun gun was ever recovered, Smit thinks the killer must have taken any unused cord and tape, plus the stun gun, with him when he left.

 

[BBB167893]

A lot of that evidence is disputed, we should remember.

I've looked at the window photo, and there's no disturbance to speak of. Plus, an unbroken spider web was there.

The stun gun is far from proven. Most pathologists say there wasn't one.

I could go on for a while.

 

[southcitymom]

Posted by Lovely Pigeon on another thread:

[/i]

Many thanks!

 

[southcitymom]

A lot of that evidence is disputed, we should remember.

I've looked at the window photo, and there's no disturbance to speak of. Plus, an unbroken spider web was there.

The stun gun is far from proven. Most pathologists say there wasn't one.

I could go on for a while.

Yes, I haven't seen any concrete evidence of a stun gun. And it's hard for me to get worked up over fibers, hairs, etc.. found on JBR as she had been around many people that night at the party she went to. Alot of the intruder-theory evidence just seems speculative and dubious. I've never in my life heard of a kidnapping case where the ransom note (especially such a LONG one) was written onsite...that just doesn't make a bit of sense.

 

[wenchie]

How did he keep Jonbenet quiet after stun-gunning her?


What I really came to ask, though - is, how did the "kidnapper" know that pen and paper were going to be easily found in the house, so that he didn't have to bring his own?

"He" certainly had a lot to say: you would think he'd make sure he had the materials to say it with.

Looking around my own house, I have cups of pens but you'd have to go shuffling through desks to find a large pad of paper.

What was he going to do if he wasn't able to find pens and paper?

 

[scandi]

Last night I heard Dr Lee say it wasnh't only the ransom note that was written, but also a 2 page practice note.

What's up with that?


Scandi

 

[wenchie]

There has also been a story floating around that the "kidnapper" saw a check stub for the $118,000 in the house.

Has John Ramsey ever said that there was a check stub for that amount in the house?

If there was - I'd be surprised. Most people have automated deposits, and busy people like John and Patsy wouldn't want to be running to the bank all the time.

 

[southcitymom]

How did he keep Jonbenet quiet after stun-gunning her?


What I really came to ask, though - is, how did the "kidnapper" know that pen and paper were going to be easily found in the house, so that he didn't have to bring his own?

"He" certainly had a lot to say: you would think he'd make sure he had the materials to say it with.

Looking around my own house, I have cups of pens but you'd have to go shuffling through desks to find a large pad of paper.

What was he going to do if he wasn't able to find pens and paper?

Bingo. That ransom note is the biggest piece of hooey in the world. And the fact that he wrote a "practice" one as well. What kidnapper in the world has time for all that or thinks, as you have pointed out, that the materials he needed would be readily available? It boggles my mind that anyone could take the ransom note as serious evidence of an intruder as opposed to serious evidence of a cover-up.

 

[Eagle1]

I kept thinking "Where have I heard those words?" .....

Force me to render up my sword,
And I shall conqueror be.........

Just thought....this might be where he got the Shall Be a Conqueror...if you look it up and listen to the song...just try to get it out of your mind...LOL.

Thanks for that explanation. You don't happen to know what Exodus 7 says, do you? We don't have a phrase from it, or it would be easy to search BlueLetterBible.org. I meant to look that up in a hard copy Bible before coming online this afternoon.

I wonder what church Karr's family attend, too, don't you? Something was said on one of the news shows that lets us know they have one. Did the grandparents teach Karr things like that?

 

[tumble]

Last night I heard Dr Lee say it wasnh't only the ransom note that was written, but also a 2 page practice note.

What's up with that?


Scandi

One page that was left in the pad had the wordning "Mr and Mrs I"
There were 8 pages missing from the pad. Those were thought to have been practice pages.

 

[englishleigh]

Thanks for that explanation. You don't happen to know what Exodus 7 says, do you? We don't have a phrase from it, or it would be easy to search BlueLetterBible.org. I meant to look that up in a hard copy Bible before coming online this afternoon.

I wonder what church Karr's family attend, too, don't you? Something was said on one of the news shows that lets us know they have one. Did the grandparents teach Karr things like that?

He put "Catholic" on some application he had filled out. Maybe his parents were Catholic but grandparents are Protestant? Or maybe he's not Catholic at all. Who knows with him?

 

[JBean]

Bingo. That ransom note is the biggest piece of hooey in the world. And the fact that he wrote a "practice" one as well. What kidnapper in the world has time for all that or thinks, as you have pointed out, that the materials he needed would be readily available? It boggles my mind that anyone could take the ransom note as serious evidence of an intruder as opposed to serious evidence of a cover-up.

Perhaps it was not the intruder's original intent to kidnap , making the ransom note an afterthought. Regardless of who the perp was ,I would bet things did not go as planned. Intruder or inside, that would apply to either scenario,IMO.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

If the pages were missing, they could have been anything at all. No one could know that they were practice pages. They could have been shopping lists, to-do lists - who knows? They're missing. Just like many of us have notepads with missing pages.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Perhaps it was not the intruder's original intent to kidnap , making the ransom note an afterthought. Regardless of who the perp was ,I would bet things did not go as planned. Intruder or inside, that would apply to either scenario,IMO.

I've been thinking this as well. If an intruder came in while the Ramseys were at the party, he had some time to wander. He could originally have intended to just wait around and take her when everyone was asleep and changed his mind out of pure & simple boredom. Even if he meant to write a note, I don't think that it's a stretch to think that someone could assume that some type of paper and writing implements would exist inside the home.

 

[InnocentBystander]

Excuse me if a similar theory has already been posted, I haven't visited in awhile.


Based on my readings of the case over the years, I come to the realization that most people think the killing and ransom note go hand-in-hand. Meaning, the killing and note were done by the same person: Parents(as one) or Intruder.

What if the parents merely discovered her dead body and panicked, thinking they would be blamed?


The intruder would have to of been a sexual predator, who either snuck into the house when they were gone, or came in when everyone was asleep. Breaking in with the house empty is safer.

We know for a fact, however, that she was not raped. A 6 year old raped by a grown man would have been quite obvious to the medical examiner. So something stopped him from getting that far. Who here knows how to make a garrote? A very good one at that? I certainly don't. That wasn't something that was just whipped together. The maker made many before. So if an intruder didn't do it, then there is no other conclusion but to say she was sexually abused by her father. In a very sick way.

So the intruder is using it on her, at the same time maybe just touching her. He doesn't realize how hard he is strangling her or maybe he leaves the room. Comes back and finds her asphyxiated. Out of sexual frustration and all his vain hard work, he smashes her in the head. I don't know how many pedophiles are also necrophiliacs. This could have been done in the kitchen or living room.

How did he leave? I don't know what type of locks they had on their doors, but perhaps he simply walked out the front door.

Patsy comes downstairs and finds the body. The Parents freak out and write the ransom note. This seems crazy, but none of us know what we would do until that situation presents itself.

Her body was also cleaned, new clothes even, and hair combed. She also had a blanket on her. In fact, you could say she was "tucked in".

That sounds like something a mother would do. Not something an intruder does in the victims house.

Whatever your view is, there is one piece of evidence that is clear to anyone with eyesight: Patsy wrote the ransom note. There is no other way around it. Some of it from her own mind, the rest dictated by John. Written with both hands. The words that look disguised were probably by her left hand. Her letters were so exact it made my body tingle. Almost a dozen experts saying without a doubt it's Patsy's handwriting is good enough for me. I can't believe they didn't arrest her on that alone. Not enough evidence you say? I think it is.

Patsy wrote the note after one of the following 3 scenarios.

1.After she was killed on purpose.
2.After she was accidentally killed.
3.After they found her dead body, and were afraid of being accused, so they concocted the note, which is paradoxical in hindsight seeing as how it pointed right to them.

About the Pineapple:

Who's to say she wouldn't follow a stranger down the stairs? A family friend would have an even easier time. Prepared it before he went upstairs, then force fed her. He could have needed more time, so he kept her busy. She and her brother could have gone into the kitchen before bedtime without anyone knowing. All are possibilities.

BTW,

I think 3 is the most unlikely, but the easiest to accept. It puts all the evil deeds in the hands of the evil person.
As for number 2, you can go ahead and substitute "John" for "intruder" in my post. I don't see her being killed on accident, for wetting the bed or whatnot, then all those cruel things done to her to cover it up. Then again, she was strangled first, so that would mean that is how she was punished.
1 is the absolute worst. The only explanation for "murder", is she was tortured to death.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I kept thinking "Where have I heard those words?" I then thought it might have something to do with the bible..in light of the fact one of Karr's sons is named "Seven Exodus".

And named his deceased twin girls Innocence and Angel. It seems like JMK has a religious element to him, for sure. So wasn't it said that Patsy's Bible was turned to a page that included a passage with the numbers 1:18, the same as the amount demanded in the ransom note?

 

[southcitymom]

Perhaps it was not the intruder's original intent to kidnap , making the ransom note an afterthought. Regardless of who the perp was ,I would bet things did not go as planned. Intruder or inside, that would apply to either scenario,IMO.

If the intruder's original intent was to molest and that molestation went wrong and JBR wound up dead, don't you think the intruder would have high-tailed it out of there as soon as possible? What does the intruder have to gain by writing a 3-page ransom note? In fact, the intruder has more to lose - without the note, officials know a lot less about him than with it.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

If the intruder's original intent was to molest and that molestation went wrong and JBR wound up dead, don't you think the intruder would have high-tailed it out of there as soon as possible? What does the intruder have to gain by writing a 3-page ransom note? In fact, the intruder has more to lose - without the note, officials know a lot less about him than with it.

Unless the note was written while someone was waiting around, and it is part of a madman's "game".

 

[Amraann]

Bingo. That ransom note is the biggest piece of hooey in the world. And the fact that he wrote a "practice" one as well. What kidnapper in the world has time for all that or thinks, as you have pointed out, that the materials he needed would be readily available? It boggles my mind that anyone could take the ransom note as serious evidence of an intruder as opposed to serious evidence of a cover-up.

What house doesn't have a pen and paper lying around??
Maybe the idea evolved while he was waiting around while they were out.

 

[ragland]

i have three kids in school, i NEVER have access to such simple tools as pen and paper! lil theives!