S.B.T.C. / Ransom Note Merged

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Whatever your view is, there is one piece of evidence that is clear to anyone with eyesight: Patsy wrote the ransom note. There is no other way around it. Some of it from her own mind, the rest dictated by John. Written with both hands. The words that look disguised were probably by her left hand. Her letters were so exact it made my body tingle. Almost a dozen experts saying without a doubt it's Patsy's handwriting is good enough for me. I can't believe they didn't arrest her on that alone. Not enough evidence you say? I think it is.

They didn't arrest her on that alone because it's not a definite. There are many people that have similar writing. And for the dozen experts that said it was her writing, I'm sure that there are a dozen who would state that it wasn't. Patsy wasn't arrested for a reason - because there is not definitive proof that she killed JonBenet or that she wrote that note.

 

[southcitymom]

i have three kids in school, i NEVER have access to such simple tools as pen and paper! lil theives!

I HEAR you, Ragland!

 

[JBean]

If the intruder's original intent was to molest and that molestation went wrong and JBR wound up dead, don't you think the intruder would have high-tailed it out of there as soon as possible? What does the intruder have to gain by writing a 3-page ransom note? In fact, the intruder has more to lose - without the note, officials know a lot less about him than with it.

I do not know what the intruders intent was. maybe to take her , but not for ransom. Maybe to molest her. Maybe to sit with her, I have no idea.Something clearly went wrong and he came up with a plan B that just made no sense.
This applies to intruder or inside. What do the Ramsey's have to gain by writing the note and then leaving her there? It's just poor logic. Why wouldn't they just call and say ther daughter was murdered during the night? They get up, she's not in her bed, they search for her and find her in the basement. Call the police, our daughter was murdered in the basement. Writing the note makes no sense for the Ramseys either.
Funny but this is the thing that makes me lean towards Karr or someone like him. Someone that was not smart, and probably nuts. I have no idea what the mindset was for anyone, intruder or inside, to write a 3 page ransom note, kill her, and then leave her there staged.

 

[Eagle1]

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/reddhotts/rh_ramseyprop.html

[font=Times New Roman,Times][size=-1]Seller: WHITEHURST, ELAINE W; WHITEHURST, RICHARD H[/size][/font] [font=Times New Roman,Times][size=-1]Property Address: 4070 PACES FERRY RD NW, ATLANTA, GA 30327[/size][/font]

ANother thing I remember from those letters is a very short reference to Polly Glauss. I'm just wondering if this guy has been communicating with forum folks as well as Tracey for a long time. ??

Really? He mentioned Polly Klaas (sp?) ? I thought I read all the letters or emails and I didn't notice or remember that.

Did he say "so very" in any of them? Just the other day when he claimed he loved JonBenet and was "so very" sorry about her death, it rang a bell like I've heard it before in maybe this case. Did either of you get a feeling also?

 

[Wudge]

I do not know what the intruders intent was. maybe to take her , but not for ransom. Maybe to molest her. Maybe to sit with her, I have no idea.Something clearly went wrong and he came up with a plan B that just made no sense.
This applies to intruder or inside. What do the Ramsey's have to gain by writing the note and then leaving her there? It's just poor logic. Why wouldn't they just call and say ther daughter was murdered during the night? They get up, she's not in her bed, they search for her and find her in the basement. Call the police, our daughter was murdered in the basement. Writing the note makes no sense for the Ramseys either.
Funny but this is the thing that makes me lean towards Karr or someone like him. Someone that was not smart, and probably nuts. I have no idea what the mindset was for anyone, intruder or inside, to write a 3 page ransom note, kill her, and then leave her there staged.

As for the theory that the Ramseys staged the crime scene, Karr's DNA testing should bring any probative value of that theory to an end in two ways.

First, if Karr's DNA is a match: Case closed.

Second, if Karr's DNA is not a match, the probative value of a staged crime scene theory basically ends.

Why? Because if Karr is freed on a lack of a DNA match, then given that the DNA did not match the Ramseys either, it would be almost inconceivable that a prosecutor could ever argue and win a conviction by arguing a staged crime scene.

 

[wenchie]

What do the Ramsey's have to gain by writing the note and then leaving her there? It's just poor logic. Why wouldn't they just call and say ther daughter was murdered during the night? They get up, she's not in her bed, they search for her and find her in the basement. Call the police, our daughter was murdered in the basement. Writing the note makes no sense for the Ramseys either.

Because it would have been too obvious: "I just woke up, and my daughter's skull is crushed!". Patsy's a dramatic person, and this fits right in with her style.

It gave them a chance to invite all their friends over to contaminate the scene and didn't make them as immediately suspect as they would have been if she'd been found in her bed.

It may have been to direct the search AWAY from the house. They may have even planned to sneak Jonbenet's body out of the house later, and it was only when they figured out that LE was NOT going to be leaving the house any time soon that John decided to "find" the body.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

Jbean--"What do the Ramseys have to gain by writing a ransom note?"-- you are kidding--right?--With no ransom note,then the Ramseys look even more guilty--The note puts the onus on others,deflecting responsibilty from them--It was a "small foreign faction" that did it,not them---It was somebody who hated John at work(118,000 bonus John got),not them---it was someone ANYONE not them

 

[tumble]

Because if Karr is freed on a lack of a DNA match

I think it would be wrong just to free him based on a DNA mismatch.
Many people think it is not the killer DNA that is on the panties.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

I was just sitting here thinking about the Victory - S.B.T.C and came up with Victory - She Beat the Cancer. Was Patsy in remission at the time the ransom note was written?

 

[southcitymom]

Unless the note was written while someone was waiting around, and it is part of a madman's "game".

I mean, sure, maybe a madman snuck in and did all this. The problem with this theory, for me, is that - in order to believe it, I have to engage in the same willful suspension of disbelief I engage in when I read a Dean Koontz novel. And most real-life murder cases aren't like that.


My experience (and I'm no expert, but I'm a bigtime crime follower) with most crimes is that the obvious conclusions are usually the right conclusions. Maybe the Ramsey case is the exception to the rule that when you are walking down the street and hear hooves on the pavement behind you, you're probably going to turn around and see a horse, not a zebra. But I don't think so.

 

[sandraladeda]

As for the theory that the Ramseys staged the crime scene, Karr's DNA testing should bring any probative value of that theory to an end in two ways.

First, if Karr's DNA is a match: Case closed.

Second, if Karr's DNA is not a match, the probative value of a staged crime scene theory basically ends.

Why? Because if Karr is freed on a lack of a DNA match, then given that the DNA did not match the Ramseys either, it would be almost inconceivable that a prosecutor could ever argue and win a conviction by arguing a staged crime scene.

Karr could be freed for lack of any evidence, not simply lack of dna evidence. If this is the case, I could see the course of the investigation reverting to what has been the status quo thus far, that is, that the dna trace found in the panties is likely just the result of a sneezing Asian factory worker. Also, there is evidence of staging. Also, the R's are not cleared.

Taking Karr out of the picture does not make it any less likely that there was staging involved in the crime.

 

[panthera]

Because if Karr is freed on a lack of a DNA match

I think it would be wrong just to free him based on a DNA mismatch.
Many people think it is not the killer DNA that is on the panties.

Before releasing him, wouldn't they complete the rest of their investigation first, or retest the DNA? I'd hate to think that several law enforcement agencies took part in bringing this "nut" back from Thailand just to release him here in the U.S.

 

[JBean]

As for the theory that the Ramseys staged the crime scene, Karr's DNA testing should bring any probative value of that theory to an end in two ways.

First, if Karr's DNA is a match: Case closed.

Second, if Karr's DNA is not a match, the probative value of a staged crime scene theory basically ends.

Why? Because if Karr is freed on a lack of a DNA match, then given that the DNA did not match the Ramseys either, it would be almost inconceivable that a prosecutor could ever argue and win a conviction by arguing a staged crime scene.

True enough.

 

[panthera]

Because it would have been too obvious: "I just woke up, and my daughter's skull is crushed!". Patsy's a dramatic person, and this fits right in with her style.

It gave them a chance to invite all their friends over to contaminate the scene and didn't make them as immediately suspect as they would have been if she'd been found in her bed.

It may have been to direct the search AWAY from the house. They may have even planned to sneak Jonbenet's body out of the house later, and it was only when they figured out that LE was NOT going to be leaving the house any time soon that John decided to "find" the body.

Good thinking on filling in the reasons for their actions, and might also be true about not being able to get the body out of the basement. However, I can't see them putting her anywhere except in the cemetary where she is with this huge gravestone. Everything was all about "show" with them, even burying the poor child with a tiara on her head.

 

[JBean]

Jbean--"What do the Ramseys have to gain by writing a ransom note?"-- you are kidding--right?--With no ransom note,then the Ramseys look even more guilty--The note puts the onus on others,deflecting responsibilty from them--It was a "small foreign faction" that did it,not them---It was somebody who hated John at work(118,000 bonus John got),not them---it was someone ANYONE not them

Nope not kidding. I think the Ramseys writing the ransom note is the biggest stretch of all.

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

Just to throw a few things out there:

It is true the end of the letter could read "Victory! Saved By The Cross".

Another thought I had (though a bit far out there) was that the use of the acronym was meant as a deception...and that speaking sound of the acronym spells out a word...as in, say S, then B, then T, and finally C in sequence. Sbtc.
No idea if any word sounds like that though. If the acronym had been say, EXTC...that would easier to think of obviously.

On another note...I've heard in the past there were absolutely no fingerprints on the ransom note, including any from Patsy or John Ramsey. I believe the only fingerprints that wound up on it was investigators'.

How could neither of the parents' fingerprints be on the note if Patsy found it, and I would suppose pick it up as it is a multi-page letter. Surely she and her husband read it over (one would think).
Her fingerprints at the very least should have been on it I would imagine.

If true, how was that ever explained?

 

[panthera]

On another note...I've heard in the past there were absolutely no fingerprints on the ransom note, including any from Patsy or John Ramsey. I believe the only fingerprints that wound up on it was investigators'.

How could neither of the parents' fingerprints be on the note if Patsy found it, and I would suppose pick it up as it is a multi-page letter. Surely she and her husband read it over (one would think).
Her fingerprints at the very least should have been on it I would imagine.

If true, how was that ever explained?

It wouldn't be the first time fingerprints didn't show up on paper! Analysis often depends on the texture of the paper, if the person had any oils/lotions on their hands/fingers. Perhaps Patsy didn't handle the papers in a way that left enough impressions on the paper to call it a "print".

 

[curiositycat]

And named his deceased twin girls Innocence and Angel. It seems like JMK has a religious element to him, for sure. So wasn't it said that Patsy's Bible was turned to a page that included a passage with the numbers 1:18, the same as the amount demanded in the ransom note?

Jersey it was Psalm 118. Her bible was opened to Psalm 118 and it was also read at the funeral from what I have read in the past

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

Jersey it was Psalm 118. Her bible was opened to Psalm 118 and it was also read at the funeral from what I have read in the past

Hmm...I had read that the Bible was open to Psalm 35, it was the Bible on John Ramsey's desk I believe. I might be wrong though.

In Psalm 118 though you do find this passage:

27 The Lord is God,
and he has made his light to shine upon us.
Bind the festal sacrifice with cords,
up to the horns of the altar!

 

[JBean]

Another handrwriting expert says its a match:
http://www.jacksonvilleprogress.com/homepage/local_story_231172845.html?keyword=leadpicturestory

Local handwriting expert Don Lehew, of Mt. Selman, has obtained several samples of John M. Karr’s handwriting, as well as, a copy of the Ramsey ransom note, and according to his analysis, they are all written by the same person. Lehew compared the ransom note to an old yearbook entry by Karr and an employment application Karr filled out when applying for a teaching job.

“I have seen enough similarities in the samples and the ransom note to be convinced that the person who wrote this (the yearbook entry) is the same person who wrote this (the ransom note),” Lehew said. “A colleague of mine and I spoke together about the samples, and we found 13 separate similarities that are, in many cases, very unusual, and that makes it a match to me. It certainly indicates to me that John Karr did write the ransom note.”

Moreover:
Not only does Lehew say Karr wrote the ransom note, he also believes Karr’s writing style identifies him as a pedophile.