GUILTY SC - Nine killed in Emanuel AME Church shooting, Charleston, 2015; Dylann Roof GUILTY #3

[YESorNO]

Mike HayesVerified account ‏@michaelhayes 3m3 minutes ago
Judge rules Dylann Roof is competent to self-represent during the sentencing phase, delays trial one day

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[Spellbound]

Thanks for taking time after your busy day to post all these updates, Yes/No! Much appreciated.

So ... looks like it is a go for Wednesday, 9:30 am. See you then... I might be late, though.

(Hubby sees doc in a.m. Wed. and may get the cast removed. crossing fingers ever so tightly that he can go back to work ASAP so I can devote more time to WS :giggle: of course, I tell him I need to get caught up on housework)

 

[CARIIS]

Thanks for taking time after your busy day to post all these updates, Yes/No! Much appreciated.

So ... looks like it is a go for Wednesday, 9:30 am. See you then... I might be late, though.

(Hubby sees doc in a.m. Wed. and may get the cast removed. crossing fingers ever so tightly that he can go back to work ASAP so I can devote more time to WS :giggle: of course, I tell him I need to get caught up on housework)

Just remind him its better than waiting to see your lover HA!


I wish I could figure out why this bugs me so much - him representing himself. Maybe dread - he better not be cross examining victims loved ones -- that is an abomination IMO.

Then I keep telling myself - he wont do this!!

It bothers me moo

 

[Spellbound]

The judge denied that [allowing victims' families to sit in in competency hearing] but promised to release a transcript of the competency hearing about 10 days after the jury reaches a verdict.

Roof will plans to do an opening and closing statement.

http://www.postandcourier.com/church_shooting/dylann-roof-found-competent-to-proceed-with-penalty-phase/article_4a70e988-d09c-11e6-8c4a-7b3cfd105049.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

 

[YESorNO]

Dylann Roof still competent for trial, self-representation; Trial resumes Wednesday

"...According to Gergel, there is a lot of information that's been discussed in the competency hearing that is not widely known, and that information could taint the jury in the case.

Gergel said previously he also had to consider the pending state murder trial set to start later this month. He told Roof that he would eventually release transcripts of the hearings, despite Roof's objections, but he wanted to seek out the counsel of Circuit Court Judge JC Nicholson before releasing it as the state court prepared for trial.

Still, Gergel says he plans to release a transcript of the hearing within 10 days of the end of the sentencing phase of the federal trial. That could wrap up as early as next week...

When proceedings begin again on Wednesday, Roof will not be able to move around the courtroom like most attorneys. He cannot approach the witnesses or the jurors and anything he needs to hand to the judge will have to be done through a third party."

http://abcnews4.com/news/emanuel-am...l-self-representation-trial-resumes-wednesday
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[YESorNO]

Roof cannot approach witnesses, jury as he defends himself in federal court

"...Roof will also sit in the third chair at the table, despite being having the lead in his defense.

It's unclear if that means defense attorney David Bruck will have more power in the sentencing hearings that begin on Tuesday..."

http://abcnews4.com/news/emanuel-am...s-jury-as-he-defends-himself-in-federal-court
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[CARIIS]

I still think that Roof is his own hero. IMO, in his mind, he had to do what he did -- he wants there to be a race war, and he must have figured that what he did would start one. I believe that Roof will say in his argument to the jury Tuesday (or whenever it occurs) that the murders were something that had to be done, so he did it.

As Shealy pointed out in the article YESorNO presented,


http://www.live5news.com/story/34150...t-mentally-ill


[/B]

Exactly, and if that in and of itself does indicate a thwarted cognitive development I am not sure what can .

Children believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy but they grow up !!!

The notion that he apparently does believe that he can represent himself, is also, in and of itself , he is just "off".

Throw that in with the confession, what he did, clearly there are issues

Glad to know he cant talk to victims.

 

[YESorNO]

Thanks for taking time after your busy day to post all these updates, Yes/No! Much appreciated.

So ... looks like it is a go for Wednesday, 9:30 am. See you then... I might be late, though.

(Hubby sees doc in a.m. Wed. and may get the cast removed. crossing fingers ever so tightly that he can go back to work ASAP so I can devote more time to WS :giggle: of course, I tell him I need to get caught up on housework)

Just ...

...DH gently out the door,

then make him a

..when he gets home and tell him about all the "housework" you did.

:hilarious:

 

[CARIIS]

The birth certificate is very interesting. It ties directly into a develpmental delay, learning disability etc etc.

There ,IMO, would be no reason for ones birth certificate to become a big deal- unless someone is challenging cognitive development.


The thinking patterns in the confession were stunning to me

At some level I would think one has to conclude that the ordering of an additional hearing as it relates to mental issues indicates some have concerns about his mental status.

The idea that the court would "tolerate" this in such a high profile case, unless there was something compelling in those concerns.

The media "tease" that the the reason- for the second set of evaluations will be a Nancy Grace bombshell (!) are important moo

It "reads" as if some behaviors in the setting have become of concern to prison folks - that is just a guess - but since he has been nowhere else - where could the concerns come from??

Unless he is really 9 years old!!

moo

 

[MsJosie]

The birth certificate is very interesting. It ties directly into a develpmental delay, learning disability etc etc.

There ,IMO, would be no reason for ones birth certificate to become a big deal- unless someone is challenging cognitive development.


The thinking patterns in the confession were stunning to me

At some level I would think one has to conclude that the ordering of an additional hearing as it relates to mental issues indicates some have concerns about his mental status.

The idea that the court would "tolerate" this in such a high profile case, unless there was something compelling in those concerns.

The media "tease" that the the reason- for the second set of evaluations will be a Nancy Grace bombshell (!) are important moo

It "reads" as if some behaviors in the setting have become of concern to prison folks - that is just a guess - but since he has been nowhere else - where could the concerns come from??

Unless he is really 9 years old!!

moo

Just what is up with the birth certificate.....I am missing the issue here. Unless he is lying about his age, he is adopted, what else could be on it? Has it ever been released?

Thanks

 

[Spellbound]

Just what is up with the birth certificate.....I am missing the issue here. Unless he is lying about his age, he is adopted, what else could be on it? Has it ever been released?

Thanks

Same here, Ms. Josie. I don't know if it would be indicated on a birth cert, but could he have been adopted or born with a drug addiction? Or at least one parent is not biological? I can't think of any other reason it would matter.

 

[YESorNO]

The stakes are high for Dylann Roof, who will act as his own lawyer in sentencing phase of his murder trial

"...The stakes are high: If the jury imposes the death penalty, Roof will be the first person in American history sentenced to death in a federal hate-crimes trial. Yet the decision would have to be unanimous. Just one holdout on the jury of 10 women and two men could spare Roof from lethal injection.

Although federal attorneys will begin to call a procession of more than 30 witnesses on Wednesday in an attempt to convince the jury that Roof should be sentenced to death, Roof plans on calling no witnesses and presenting no evidence.

Such an imbalance between the prosecution and defense in a death penalty case — with the possibility that crucial sentencing information about the defendant’s mental health could be withheld from the jury — raises thorny legal questions. If the jury sentences Roof to death, the dispute about his mental health is likely to lead to years of appeals, legal experts say.

“I expect it to be a charade of a capital sentencing,” said Christopher Adams, a Charleston defense attorney who specializes in federal defense cases. “Here you have a guy who clearly is mentally ill, and he is not going to present any mental health evidence. So the jurors are going to be asked to make the toughest decision imaginable under law without any real information.”

“It really is a fraud upon the court, a fraud upon the public and a fraud upon the jurors to have a capital sentencing where only one party is presenting a case,” he added...

“The Supreme Court has never addressed the issue of what happens when the government is not asking for a defendant to live with the consequences, but rather to die with the consequences,” Adams said. “The adversarial system just does not work unless there are two sides who are fighting it out.”

Early on, Roof’s attorneys filed paperwork stating they planned to introduce expert evidence that would demonstrate “mental disease or defect or any other mental condition bearing on the issue of punishment.”..."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-dylann-roof-sentencing-20170102-story.html
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[starviego]

I was wondering why, at the pre-sentencing conference, the judge brought up Roof's birth certificate:

Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills 2h2 hours ago
They're now talking about how #DylannRoof's birth certificate will be introduced during the sentencing phase. #sctweets @wis10 #RoofTrial

Karina Bolster ‏@KRBolster 2h2 hours ago
Judge Gergel now discusses #DylannRoof's date of birth and wonders if there are any objections from Govt./Defense. #chsnews #RoofTrial

Yes, truly strange. There is either a discrepancy in Roof's stated age or maybe the name of the birth certificate is somehow different that his current name. Maybe someone added the "Storm" part later on, for some odd reason.

As for the age part, I am reminded that one of the living witnesses claimed that Roof at one point in the shooting allegedly told her he was 21, though curiously she was never asked about that oddity during cross-examination. Thank the 'defense' attorney. Remember the first descriptions of the suspect said he was 21--which made me wonder how they would know that if they didn't even know his name at that time.

They are hiding something, for sure.

 

[Elley Mae]

The birth certificate is very interesting. It ties directly into a develpmental delay, learning disability etc etc.

There ,IMO, would be no reason for ones birth certificate to become a big deal- unless someone is challenging cognitive development.


The thinking patterns in the confession were stunning to me

At some level I would think one has to conclude that the ordering of an additional hearing as it relates to mental issues indicates some have concerns about his mental status.

The idea that the court would "tolerate" this in such a high profile case, unless there was something compelling in those concerns.

The media "tease" that the the reason- for the second set of evaluations will be a Nancy Grace bombshell (!) are important moo

It "reads" as if some behaviors in the setting have become of concern to prison folks - that is just a guess - but since he has been nowhere else - where could the concerns come from??

Unless he is really 9 years old!!

moo

Do you have a link to the birth certificate?

I have never seen a birth certificate that described any development or physical abnormalities. At birth if there are problems with the child mentally they usually are not visually obvious till later.

 

[starviego]

I am somewhat baffled by all this 'mental competency' stuff. Didn't he already have multiple mental exams, all of which concluded he is sane? And even if he was nutso, if he understood the difference between right and wrong that would be enough to convict him, according to court rulings.

My theory is that the government, after throwing the book at him and demanding the ultimate punishment, was hoping the defense attorney would introduce enough exculpatory evidence to make it life in prison instead. But Roof has called their bluff, so now Roof could turn himself into a martyr by being executed, which will keep the case alive with endless speculation about unanswered questions in this case. And of course all death penalty verdicts are automatically appealed, and eventually that might lead to more embarrassing revelations.

But if he got LWOP, he would just quietly fade into irrelevance and obscurity, which is what they want.

 

[YESorNO]

Yes, truly strange. There is either a discrepancy in Roof's stated age or maybe the name of the birth certificate is somehow different that his current name. Maybe someone added the "Storm" part later on, for some odd reason.

As for the age part, I am reminded that one of the living witnesses claimed that Roof at one point in the shooting allegedly told her he was 21, though curiously she was never asked about that oddity during cross-examination. Thank the 'defense' attorney. Remember the first descriptions of the suspect said he was 21--which made me wonder how they would know that if they didn't even know his name at that time.

They are hiding something, for sure.

BBM That may be the "why" of the birth certificate- the name difference (and not an age difference).

I remember one of the articles I previously posted had some info on Roof's middle name "Storm" and where that name came from:

"...In both police reports, Mr. Roof gave his middle name as Storm, which is popular among white supremacists and could derive from stormfront.org, a website frequented by so-called white racialists, according to Mr. Blodgett, who said he co-owned the record label for opportunist reasons and never personally harbored racist views...."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/charles...oof-became-a-loner-in-recent-years-1434644808

Sounds like that name wouldn't be on his birth certificate. :thinking:

And, if you think about it, that middle name he gave himself, just links him more to white supremacy ideology, even tho' he wasn't an actual member of any "so-called white racialist's" group---
( possible just more evidence for the trial).

 

[YESorNO]

I am somewhat baffled by all this 'mental competency' stuff. Didn't he already have multiple mental exams, all of which concluded he is sane? And even if he was nutso, if he understood the difference between right and wrong that would be enough to convict him, according to court rulings.

My theory is that the government, after throwing the book at him and demanding the ultimate punishment, was hoping the defense attorney would introduce enough exculpatory evidence to make it life in prison instead. But Roof has called their bluff, so now Roof could turn himself into a martyr by being executed, which will keep the case alive with endless speculation about unanswered questions in this case. And of course all death penalty verdicts are automatically appealed, and eventually that might lead to more embarrassing revelations.

But if he got LWOP, he would just quietly fade into irrelevance and obscurity, which is what they want.

BBM What does this mean? :thinking:

 

[Spellbound]

I am somewhat baffled by all this 'mental competency' stuff. Didn't he already have multiple mental exams, all of which concluded he is sane? And even if he was nutso, if he understood the difference between right and wrong that would be enough to convict him, according to court rulings.

My theory is that the government, after throwing the book at him and demanding the ultimate punishment, was hoping the defense attorney would introduce enough exculpatory evidence to make it life in prison instead. But Roof has called their bluff, so now Roof could turn himself into a martyr by being executed, which will keep the case alive with endless speculation about unanswered questions in this case. And of course all death penalty verdicts are automatically appealed, and eventually that might lead to more embarrassing revelations.

But if he got LWOP, he would just quietly fade into irrelevance and obscurity, which is what they want.

BBM

:doh: Are you serious about this statement? Prosecutors would not go through with prosecuting any case to get the opposite of what they are pursuing. I am sure they can handle either life or death verdicts, but they believed this case warranted a death penalty trial.

No one becomes a martyr for being executed, unless only in their own minds.

The only embarrassing revelations that would likely come out that haven't up to now, would likely be toward Mr. Roof or his family. There has been nothing to indicate that legal channels were improperly handled.

ALL JMO

 

[CARIIS]

Do you have a link to the birth certificate?

I have never seen a birth certificate that described any development or physical abnormalities. At birth if there are problems with the child mentally they usually are not visually obvious till later.

My sense about the birth cert is in jail he might have displayed odd behaviors that have resulted in them thinking he is much younger than he has stated

Just speculation but what is a birth cert for? To show when you were born?
So I would assume there is something about his age that has come to lite????

 

[Niner]

Here I am waiting :waiting: for the sentencing phase to begin, and I keep forgetting I'm NOT 3 hours behind Eastern time, but 7 hours ahead....

:gaah:

Will be back later at the right time....