SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #23

[Ray_of_hope]

Personally, I think there was plenty of motive. That day, Alex found out that his entire world was about to crumble around his feet because his financial crimes were about to become known to his law partners, his family, and the world. His son's crime brought dishonor to the family and was going to cost millions to defend. A civil suit would take any money that remained. He was robbing Peter to pay Paul. He was running through hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars in a few months trying to service all his debts. He was addicted to opiods. Tinsley (the Beach family lawyer) credibly told him that he was going to have to turn over the beach house and Moselle and that Alex could go on a payment plan to pay off the rest over time but that any settlement that the Beach family would agree to would be substantially more than the value of those two properties. There may be other things that we don't even know about (personally, I think he may have been blackmailed). The house of cards he had built over two decades was about to come crashing down.

But the fact that his life was in freefall aside, people don't need reasons that make sense to us to kill. Bryan Kohberger seems to have killed four students for no good reason, Susan Smith (the last huge case in SC) killed her kids for no reason, Brian Laundrie killed Gabby Petito for no reason. I don't know why Alex Murdaugh needs a better reason than countless other killers.

MOO

I agree. MM also wanted to move after some shunning that may have gone on of her by area residents after Paul's boat wreck. She had already picked out a home in another area.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I have changed my mind on a few points due to the various testimony. of course, I reseve the right to change it again.

MP testfied that her sister ‘was happy.’ There has been other testimony that they were ‘lovey-dovey.” That’s a big deal IMO. I no longer believe there were any serious problems in that marriage.

The Edisto house was just over an hour away. PM and BM were not living at home. MM was having tenovations done at Edisto and felt shunned around Hampton. So spending time in a summer month at Edisto Beach is not an indicator of martial problems. MM was sure taking care of her husband…making sure he had his favorite drinks, worrying about his health.

MP testified that MM was happy in that marriage. Worried about the civil trial, about Paul…but not anything about considering divorce.

It’s confusing but it looks like she spent Sunday at Moselle after a weekend with AM and PM watching ball games. She returned to Moselle and spent Sunday night, delivering donuts to his Mother, and then traveled back to Edisto. I can understand her not wanting to drive right back and have to leave the doors unlocked for the construction. But MP convinced her that it wasthe right thing to do. MP also said AM did not like to stay at Moselle alone…and now his Dad was dying.

I just don’t see this as ‘luring.’ AM wanted his family around him while he awaited his Father's death. I don’t like much about AM but I realize that if this were another person I did like…and there were no murders…I would not see anything ‘fishy’ about it.

And where is that ‘fishy’ statement thst MM said AM was ‘up to something?

There are several articles but I just grabbed one link below.

Murdaugh’s Wife Saw Something ‘Fishy’ Before Murder: Report

Authorities say Alex Murdaugh texted his wife to meet him at their estate the night she and her son were fatally shot.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

It was the defense that showed on the video just prior to the murder that the hose was on the ground. I'm assuming the hose was still on the ground when detectives arrived.

It wasn't.

 

[Lillymac]

DBM

 

[Lillymac]

I think he's guilty and the only thing that could change my mind is if someone else is shown to have been there at the crime scene. AM is the only person who was there. There is no one else!! B And he lied and said he wasn’t...that does away with any doubts I might have. Maggie and Paul certainly didn't shoot each other!! I guess it will depend on how many 'good old boys' are on the jury.

 

[Warwick7]

I think he's guilty and the only thing that could change my mind is if someone else is shown to have been there at the crime scene. AM is the only person who was there. There is no one else!! B And he lied and said he wasn’t...that does away with any doubts I might have. Maggie and Paul certainly didn't shoot each other!! I guess it will depend on how many 'good old boys' are on the jury.

BBM
Yes, exactly. This is literally the right angle to look at this.

 

[Warwick7]

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[mrjitty]

And I cringed when the defense asked Agent Owen if he could confirm whether or not anybody in LE ever asked AM to produce the clothes he was wearing in the leaning tree photo, and Owen replied he could not.

Despite the usual claims of prosecutors and police fitting up high profile defendants with weak evidence, it is interesting how often we see law enforcement hole a case below the water line with low energy investigation.

I feel this is likely mostly down to bureaucratic SNAFUs?

e.g they realised too late and would then rather not draw attention to their own mistakes

 

[mrjitty]

Personally, I think that he probably is guilty. With that said, I do not believe it has been proven to this point beyond a doubt and I can raise many doubts regarding this case in each instance. So I'd vote not guilty if I were a juror.

RSBM for focus

Just on the doubt question, and out of genuine interest what are the specific doubts?

I understand the state cannot show forensic evidence like blood splatter on clothing - but that is precisely because he cleaned up after the crime, tampered with the evidence and gave false evidence to prosecutors.

So I am kind of a bit lost as to what other non-guilty explanation could be reasonably possibly true.

 

[sunshineray]

Despite the usual claims of prosecutors and police fitting up high profile defendants with weak evidence, it is interesting how often we see law enforcement hole a case below the water line with low energy investigation.

I feel this is likely mostly down to bureaucratic SNAFUs?

e.g they realised too late and would then rather not draw attention to their own mistakes

The Solictitor's office should have been removed from the investigation almost immediately. I believe that strangled the investigation, especially concerning Almeda. Good ol' boys ruled.

So what do you think in that 3rd interview tape was the thing that finally made Duffy Stone think, Oh dang it, I need to recuse? My guess, it was the four direct questions at the end that did it.

 

[mrjitty]

Oh no! Onstar data AM vehicle did not go to the kennels.

Back to square one: how did they get to the kennels?

Golf cart?

This seems like a significant issue for the defence to try to make sense of how AM himself got back if he is going to have a positive version (I think he has to have a new version in evidence).

I presume his only avenue is to claim he was somehow scared to admit he was at the crime scene - which of course makes no sense as if they were really killed while he wasn't there has a solid alibi - at least that is what he would have though in the first minutes he met Law Enforcement.

 

[sunshineray]

If PM's phone has AM at the murder scene at the exact time PM's phone then stops activity-TOD (even though a good friend is waiting on him for a communication), which he repeatedly denied being at and then shortly thereafter leaves the area, how is that explained away or disregarded?

The lies he repeatedly told about his timeline and his actual placement cannot be disregarded, they are everything, IMO. Add to that the clothes change, the weapons used and the two female witnesses he heavy-handedly tried to "talk" into saying untruths and don't forget the build up of stress before and also his actions afterwards...guilty. AJMO

 

[Elley Mae]

Oh no! Onstar data AM vehicle did not go to the kennels.

Back to square one: how did they get to the kennels?

Golf cart?

Was it the side by side ATV that AM&PM were riding around in all over that they were in and AM drove that back to the house to get truck to go to mom’s.

 

[sunshineray]

This seems like a significant issue for the defence to try to make sense of how AM himself got back if he is going to have a positive version (I think he has to have a new version in evidence).

I presume his only avenue is to claim he was somehow scared to admit he was at the crime scene - which of course makes no sense as if they were really killed while he wasn't there has a solid alibi - at least that is what he would have though in the first minutes he met Law Enforcement.

Yeah maybe during his usual nap in front of the tv after dinner (which by the way must have been scoffed down standing up according to PM and MM's phone data...throwing in there the drive around with PM that went "everywhere" on the property), maybe he did a sleepwalk down to the kennels for PM's video, left and laid back down, waking up for real at 9pm?

His timeline is sunk, hit an iceberg with that dog video. AJMO

 

[Megnut]

Or he walked Maggie's phone back to the house/Suburban before starting up his car, possibly remote-start.

IMO all three of them went to the kennels in the ATV. Which is why Alec played dumb on how M and P got there. He was trying to unknow how he got there.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

If PM's phone has AM at the murder scene at the exact time PM's phone then stops activity-TOD (even though a good friend is waiting on him for a communication), which he repeatedly denied being at and then shortly thereafter leaves the area, how is that explained away or disregarded?

The lies he repeatedly told about his timeline and his actual placement cannot be disregarded, they are everything, IMO. Add to that the clothes change, the weapons used and the two female witnesses he heavy-handedly tried to "talk" into saying untruths and don't forget the build up of stress before and also his actions afterwards...guilty. AJMO

This is how I feel about it. There is no explanation consistent with innocence. The fact that certain evidence has not been recovered is precisely because he did that.

To me you can't hand wave that way and say we don't really know what happened.

If you draw the natural and obvious inferences, we do know what happened.

 

[Elley Mae]

Was it the side by side ATV that AM&PM were riding around in all over that they were in and AM drove that back to the house to get truck to go to mom’s.

Quoting my post.

My mistake.

Watching interview now, AM says he and Paul rode around in white truck and blabk truck.

 

[Elley Mae]

And again watching the video of AM at tree I don’t think AM knew for was being filmed, in interview he didn’t seem to be aware of the footage.

 

[Elley Mae]

Watched the limp tree video, in the bottom right corner is that a bar on an atv?

 

[sunshineray]

This is how I feel about it. There is no explanation consistent with innocence. The fact that certain evidence has not been recovered is precisely because he did that.

To me you can't hand wave that way and say we don't really know what happened.

If you draw the natural and obvious inferences, we do know what happened.

Oh and AM never did get that list of his remaining/missing guns to LE. I wonder why that would be? I mean he certainly wanted to help LE, didn't he? Or did that all stop dead when he was asked those last four questions at his 3rd and last interview?