GUILTY SC - Shooting reported at Townville Elementary, Jacob Hall, 6, killed, Sept 2016

  • #301
It says there are liens dating back to 2005. It implies then that there are more recent ones.

A child who brings a hatchet, a machete, shoots his father, and then shoots little children has no issues? Where do those issues come from?

The boy screams that he hates his life. Ok. We should not examine home life. Nope.

I never said he has no issues. But his issues may have come from a variety of sources, not necessarily that he was being sexually or physically abused by his parent. And I am an abuse survivor, so I do know that it happens.

He may have hated his life because of the bullying. Shooting up the schoolyard seems more about the rage against school yard bullying than it does against his family.

I never said that we should not examine his home life. Just saying that a DV case from 22 yrs ago is not enough to convince me that his Father was abusing his son or his wife. Maybe he was, but maybe he wasn't.
 
  • #302
And he shot his own father because? And he shot at an elementary school that he had no connection to because?
 
  • #303
I never said he has no issues. But his issues may have come from a variety of sources, not necessarily that he was being sexually or physically abused by his parent. And I am an abuse survivor, so I do know that it happens.

He may have hated his life because of the bullying. Shooting up the schoolyard seems more about the rage against school yard bullying than it does against his family.

I never said that we should not examine his home life. Just saying that a DV case from 22 yrs ago is not enough to convince me that his Father was abusing his son or his wife. Maybe he was, but maybe he wasn't.


BBM. He also shot his father, so it's not a stretch to think that may play into why he hates his life.
 
  • #304
There is more to abuse than just physical beatings, and nobody seems to go to jail for verbal and emotional abuse. I don't know if that's what was going on, but the mass majority of abusive households don't even end up with any police/court involvement.
 
  • #305
  • #306
And he shot his own father because? And he shot at an elementary school that he had no connection to because?

There are a few reasons he may have shot his father. One possibility is because he wanted to steal the truck and gun to go shoot people. He could not accomplish that without killing his father too. And maybe he did not want his father to live to see what was about to happen. He did not want to disappoint him.

Adam Lanza was coddled and babied by his mother and he shot her before he went to shoot up the school. It does not mean that she was abusing him.
Maybe he shot up that elementary school because it was the closest one he knew about. He couldn't drive too far , being 14. So he went to the closest place he could to begin shooting.
 
  • #307
There is more to abuse than just physical beatings, and nobody seems to go to jail for verbal and emotional abuse. I don't know if that's what was going on, but the mass majority of abusive households don't even end up with any police/court involvement.


I agree.

I am just playing Devil's Advocate here because I have seen a few cases where the young killer shot up random people---and he was not abused by his family, but was in fact, coddled and spoiled by them/

Adam Lanza, and also two of the Santa Barbara mass shooters, were entitled, spoiled rich kids, who were never abused by family--only by their peers.
 
  • #308
I agree.

I am just playing Devil's Advocate here because I have seen a few cases where the young killer shot up random people---and he was not abused by his family, but was in fact, coddled and spoiled by them/

Adam Lanza, and also two of the Santa Barbara mass shooters, were entitled, spoiled rich kids, who were never abused by family--only by their peers.

I think you are referring to Elliot. Elliot and Lanza bth suffered divorce which is really hard on kids esp boys . Lanza must have been severely disturbed.

Maybe Jesse was severely disturbed also
 
  • #309
This article talks about mass shooters. They never just snap. They plan for a long time.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/09/mass-shootings-threat-assessment-shooter-fbi-columbine

happens at a school, an office building, or a movie theater, the question will again be asked: "What made him snap?" But mass murder is not an impulsive crime. Virtually every one of these attacks, forensic investigations show, is a predatory crime, methodically planned and executed. Therein lies the promise of threat assessment: The weeks, months, or even years when a would-be killer is escalating toward violence are a window of opportunity in which he can be detected and thwarted.

A growing body of research has shed light on this "pathway to violence." It often begins with an unshakable sense of grievance, which stirs thoughts about harming people and leads to the planning and preparation for an attack. Elliot Rodger, convinced that women were unfairly denying him sex, seethed for months and fantasized about a "day of retribution" before he bought firearms, scouted sorority houses, and went on to kill 6 people and injure 14 others near Santa Barbara, California, in May 2014.

A confluence of behaviors can indicate that someone is poised to walk into a school or a shopping mall and open fire. These include an obsession with weapons, a fixation on images of violence, and a history of aggressive acts that aren't directly related to the planned attack—possibly a way for the perpetrator to test his resolve. Almost a year before Rodger struck, he attempted to push some women off a 10-foot ledge at a house party. Some killers have mutilated pets before going on rampages.

In fact, the vast majority of mass shooters signal their intentions in advance, though usually not directly to their intended targets. This "leakage," as threat assessment teams call it, can be difficult to recognize. Before Dylann Roof murdered nine black churchgoers in Charleston, South Carolina, he told a friend about his desire to kill people and start a race war. (The friend claimed he didn't think Roof was serious.) Weeks before Rodger attacked, he posted disturbing videos that prompted his mother to alert a county mental health agency that he was suicidal. In response, sheriff's deputies went to Rodger's apartment to do a welfare check, interviewing him just a few strides from where he'd stashed three handguns and hundreds of rounds of ammunition. He persuaded them he was fine. "Thankfully, all suspicion of me was dropped," he later wrote, "and the police never came back."
 
  • #310
I agree.

I am just playing Devil's Advocate here because I have seen a few cases where the young killer shot up random people---and he was not abused by his family, but was in fact, coddled and spoiled by them/

Adam Lanza, and also two of the Santa Barbara mass shooters, were entitled, spoiled rich kids, who were never abused by family--only by their peers.

The Psychology Today article gives reasons why kids kill parents. Jesee could be an anomalie. There always seems to be those.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199209/why-kids-kill-parents

There are three types of individuals who commit parricide. One is the severely abused child who is pushed beyond his or her limits. Another is the severely mentally ill child. And the third is the darling of the tabloids, the dangerously antisocial child.

By far, the severely abused child is the most frequently encountered type of offender. According to Paul Mones, a Los Angeles attorney who specializes in defending adolescent parricide offenders, more than 90 percent have been abused by their parents. In-depth portraits of such youths have frequently shown that they killed because they could no longer tolerate conditions at home. These children were psychologically abused by one or both parents and often suffered physical, sexual, and verbal abuse as well--and witnessed it given to others in the household. They did not typically have histories of severe mental illness or of serious and extensive delinquent behavior. They were not criminally sophisticated. For them, the killings represented an act of desperation--the only way out of a family situation they could no longer endure.

Only on occasion does a severely mentally ill child kill. These are children who have lost contact with reality. Their cases are often well documented with records of previous treatments that failed. Many of the cases are never tried; the killer is declared unfit to stand trial.

There are those few children who seem to kill without any remorse, yet whose parents seem to be loving and kind. The dangerously antisocial child is often the fodder of newspaper headlines. These juvenile offenders typically exhibit a conduct disorder--severely disruptive behavior that continues for over six months. These are the kids who kill their parents merely for some sort of instrumental, selfish end--never having to ask before borrowing the car again, for instance.
 
  • #311
Tyler Hadley comes to mind as I read that article, also. (17 year old killed parents with hammer, then had a wild party with bodies still in home.) His case, clearly that of a psychopath, and a wealthy, coddled kid, initially hit the headlines hard-- then a complete lockdown on stories ensued. He's been sentenced to LWOP-- not eligible for DP due to age.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tyler-h...nts-at-17-then-threw-party-sentenced-to-life/

JO seemed to be expressing some kind of "remorse" when he called his grandparents from the shooting scene, crying so hard she couldn't understand his words.

I'm not ready to believe this teen was abused at home, though I know others seem to think he was. I hope we will hear more about what happened after the "hatchet" episode, especially as to school involvement (the alternative school), counseling, social services, and the parents' receptivity to working with various parts of the system to get him help. That would be helpful to understand what happened between that hatchet situation, and him going on a shooting rampage last week.
 
  • #312
Excellent resources.

It is hard to picture an abuser changing.

I asked a social worker once why women went with an abuser because I found their personalities revolting.

She said that they do not start out abusive. The ones to be really wary of are the ones who are so sweet right away. Flowers, gifts,etc. Unless there has been heavy duty counseling, I am not sure an abuser knows how to change their faulty belief system.

They are also somehow gifted in finding victims. I used to think victims were attracted to abusers, but I've since learned it's the abusers who see something - I have no idea what - kindness? vulnerability? pain? - in potential victims. It's crazy to me these losers and jerks also possess persuasive people skills. (Alliteration unintentional.)
 
  • #313
BBM. He also shot his father, so it's not a stretch to think that may play into why he hates his life.

And he didn't shoot his mother or grandmother.
 
  • #314
  • #315
Why did he call his grandmother? Then he went on to more killing.

If the data is correct, he planned it for a long time.

He has the red flags. Prior event ( the hatchet), obsession with violence, what else?
 
  • #316
They are also somehow gifted in finding victims. I used to think victims were attracted to abusers, but I've since learned it's the abusers who see something - I have no idea what - kindness? vulnerability? pain? - in potential victims. It's crazy to me these losers and jerks also possess persuasive people skills. (Alliteration unintentional.)

OT but... I'll have to find you the link if I can, I read a thing about how sociopaths are drawn to empaths because they can manipulate them early on. It's subconscious on both ends, really fascinating and tragic.
 
  • #317
OT but... I'll have to find you the link if I can, I read a thing about how sociopaths are drawn to empaths because they can manipulate them early on. It's subconscious on both ends, really fascinating and tragic.

I would love to read that article if you can find it (no obligation....I'm not handing out assignments!).

I know some people are so dominant in their energy and some people like empaths can be overcome by that. The empaths can lose themselves if they don't recognize what is happening. The trick is recognizing it when it happens...I do think signs are there almost immediately.

jmo
 
  • #318
Townville shooting suspect's charge upgraded; another victim identified

"The solicitor has upgraded a charge against the Townville Elementary School shooting suspect, and says there is a third child victim of the shooting.

...

Adams said there is also a petition for a third attempted murder charge for a “recently identified child victim.”

She did not explain the addition of the third victim. All of the initial reports were two children and a teacher injured Wednesday in the shooting at Townville Elementary."

http://m.wyff4.com/news/townville-s...e-upgraded-another-victim-identified/41940174


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  • #319
I had lots of answers when I saw population 3,241 or something. UGH

Generally, rural folks are not all that fond of that therapy jazz!! "My kid aint no nutjob" " he just needs a good ole ass whipping and he be all steppin back shape"

" Now yeez all get offfa my property before i goes and getzzzz my rifle, dont y'all call my kid a mental whacko again, or I gonna hatchet yo to pieces for my alligators for a big tasty brunch"

Momma: "Thats right u tell them big Booby Jo Henry SMith the 8th"

humm humm specuating again!

I grew up in a house 10-15 minutes from Townville Elementary. My parents still live about 10 minutes away. The Southern dialect may not be the most intelligent sounding ones, but, I seriously doubt anyone is alligator farming around there lol :nyah:. The population the media is quoting is for Townville proper, which is more like a township, but most people get health care (mental health services) and do business with, including with the school district, law enforcement, DSS, etc Anderson County, which had a population of 190,641 in 2013 or through Oconee County, which had a population of 75,045 in 2013.

I just had to speak up because I see so many people viewing the photos and assuming that this is some country town in the middle of nowhere. The community of Townville may be small, but if you pull up a map and travel down Hwy 24, you quickly come to I 85, you'll cross Lake Hartwell and into heavily populated areas. This area is also not far from Clemson University.
 
  • #320
I grew up in a house 10-15 minutes from Townville Elementary. My parents still live about 10 minutes away. The Southern dialect may not be the most intelligent sounding ones, but, I seriously doubt anyone is alligator farming around there lol :nyah:. The population the media is quoting is for Townville proper, which is more like a township, but most people get health care (mental health services) and do business with, including with the school district, law enforcement, DSS, etc Anderson County, which had a population of 190,641 in 2013 or through Oconee County, which had a population of 75,045 in 2013.

I just had to speak up because I see so many people viewing the photos and assuming that this is some country town in the middle of nowhere. The community of Townville may be small, but if you pull up a map and travel down Hwy 24, you quickly come to I 85, you'll cross Lake Hartwell and into heavily populated areas. This area is also not far from Clemson University.

Do you feel he could have been receiving services for his issues? Why do you feel he was not in an alternative school?
 

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