GUILTY SC - Shooting reported at Townville Elementary, Jacob Hall, 6, killed, Sept 2016

[Blondie in Spokane]

Another school shooting. How did a troubled child get access to a lethal weapon, along with sufficient ammunition to kill or wound so many?
There are more victims here than those who were shot. The pictures of the crying faces being evacuated by bright yellow school buses-- that's not what school buses are for. The sobbing children in their parents arms when they were finally reunited. These children are deeply traumatized. Forget learning the 3 R's for the near future. They will need counseling to try to lessen some of the damage, poor little things. And those poor parents who have to worry about sending their children off to school. That includes all parents now. Who knows where it will happen next? The points about this actually being a well-educated, relatively affluent area show that it is not just happening in inner city or poverty ridden areas.
So many victims. So much suffering.

The photo of those little kids crying inside the bus broke my heart.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not sure if this was posted and I just missed it but the statement from the shooters family is really touching:



https://www.google.com/amp/s/wyff4.relaymedia.com/amp/news/coroner-investigates-death-at-home-near-school-connected-to-shooting-coroner-says/41868542?client=safari

I saw that earlier and it brought tears to my eyes. Such a tremendous loss for the families on both sides. They have lost their husband/son/brother//uncle/friend etc and now have to deal with knowing their own family member not only killed him but shot three others with two being small children. I cant begin to imagine the range of emotions they must have having to deal with all of it.

I am glad to see the family seems to have a strong support group. Usually in small communities like this everyone knows everyone else in some manner and it can make them a much closer tight knit community when something this tragic strikes. It also seems the family has a strong faith in God and they will lean on Him for strength to get them all through this, imo.

 

[Tawny]

I support the "fire extinguisher" idea. The one where if someone opens fire in a school, someone grabs a fire extinguisher and douses them. It will reduce the shooter's visibility and possibly hurt just enough to stop them without killing them (so they can be brought to justice). It's much safer than returning fire, so I like this idea more than arming teachers. JMO.

 

[bluesneakers]

I support the "fire extinguisher" idea. The one where if someone opens fire in a school, someone grabs a fire extinguisher and douses them. It will reduce the shooter's visibility and possibly hurt just enough to stop them without killing them (so they can be brought to justice). It's much safer than returning fire, so I like this idea more than arming teachers. JMO.

That is a good idea and fire extinguishers are easily accessible throughout school buildings. Are they in every classroom?

Do you think it would take a team effort? I'm trying to picture how someone would douse and disorientate the shooter and then be able to go after him or her.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

#PrayersForJacob: Support pours in for 6-year-old SC school shooting victim



http://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/pr...51701684?ecmp=wsoctv_social_facebook_2014_sfp

How heartbreaking. I can see why he died twice. Its a wonder he didn't bleed to death before they could get him stabilized. Thank God for all the first medical responders and what they do to save lives.

 

[Tawny]

That is a good idea and fire extinguishers are easily accessible throughout school buildings. Are they in every classroom?

Do you think it would take a team effort? I'm trying to picture how someone would douse and disorientate the shooter and then be able to go after him or her.

I believe they are in every room.

The power packed in those things, one would be enough, but bring on 2 or 3 at the same time! It would take brave souls but I have no doubt there are adults in those buildings willing to do that for those children. Every school shooting seems to have those people who either died protecting or put their life on the line to try to protect.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Another school shooting. How did a troubled child get access to a lethal weapon, along with sufficient ammunition to kill or wound so many?
There are more victims here than those who were shot. The pictures of the crying faces being evacuated by bright yellow school buses-- that's not what school buses are for. The sobbing children in their parents arms when they were finally reunited. These children are deeply traumatized. Forget learning the 3 R's for the near future. They will need counseling to try to lessen some of the damage, poor little things. And those poor parents who have to worry about sending their children off to school. That includes all parents now. Who knows where it will happen next? The points about this actually being a well-educated, relatively affluent area show that it is not just happening in inner city or poverty ridden areas.
So many victims. So much suffering.

Great post. I am only speculating but I think that is the reason this teen killed his father. He knew his father would not let him leave the home with a firearm so he removed the obstacle that he knew would stand in the way.

Yes, unfortunately it can and does happen everywhere and in any community. No one is immune from these crimes being done just because they may live in a certain area.

Those little children were so scared. It was hard to see them crying without crying too. These violent acts have now pierced their innocents and they will never be the same again and probably will never feel completely safe again..

 

[bluesneakers]

I believe they are in every room.

The power packed in those things, one would be enough, but bring on 2 or 3 at the same time! It would take brave souls but I have no doubt there are adults in those buildings willing to do that for those children. Every school shooting seems to have those people who either died protecting or put their life on the line to try to protect.

And! One of those brave souls (totally agree with you there) could also bonk the shooter right on the head. I'm not usually one to enjoy another person's pain, but...

Another plus is no child could get ahold of it and shoot anyone. Even if a kid managed to get one (I'm sure it happens) no one's life would be in danger.

 

[Inthedetails]

Great post. I am only speculating but I think that is the reason this teen killed his father. He knew his father would not let him leave the home with a firearm so he removed the obstacle that he knew would stand in the way.

Yes, unfortunately it can and does happen everywhere and in any community. No one is immune from these crimes being done just because they may live in a certain area.

Those little children were so scared. It was hard to see them crying without crying too. These violent acts have now pierced their innocents and they will never be the same again and probably will never feel completely safe again..

I don't think the teen shot his dad because his dad would prevent him from taking a gun. Well, of course the dad would prevent him if the dad knew the son wanted the gun. But, I think it would be plenty easy to sneak a gun out of the house. After all, the kid took a hachet to school, and I'm assuming he stole it and hid it. He could've done the same with the gun. But instead of sneaking the gun out, he shot his dad first.

Why?

I think he killed his dad because the kid hated his life (as he said) and was either blaming his dad or was REALLY crying out to the world until someone would pay attention. Well, he got attention.

Sad, tragic story from every angle.

jmo

 

[Dogface]

I think the fire extinguisher idea would be a good idea if a shooter is roaming the halls and going room to room, a brave teacher(and in these situations, we see how many brave teachers there are) could ambush them when they came in the room. Unfortunately, there is no 100% way to end the threat without risk of great bodily harm and death. It's so awful that this is a reality. I am very interested in hearing how he got the gun, was it normally in a safe? It makes me so damn mad when children have access to weapons. Undeveloped brain, hormonal changes, immaturity in general are enough reasons to make sure weapons are ALWAYS locked up if not being worn.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I believe they are in every room.

The power packed in those things, one would be enough, but bring on 2 or 3 at the same time! It would take brave souls but I have no doubt there are adults in those buildings willing to do that for those children. Every school shooting seems to have those people who either died protecting or put their life on the line to try to protect.

I have also thought about all teachers keeping a tall can of hornet/wasp spray in their desk then if they have a shooter/stabber or some other kind of weapon.. when he is distracted they can spray him with the toxic chemicals right in the face. They easily reach 20 feet away when spraying. It wouldn't take much to make contact to blind them and be in agony from the chemicals eating away at their eyes.

In some of these cases there was a chance to overpower the shooter or whatever tool was being used.... like the passengers did in the 911 airplane crash, but I think its a time of such dramatic events people aren't thinking clearly at the time and panic. There have been those at school shootings who did have a firearm and they did stop the shooter without even having to fire their own weapon. In some states they are passing gun laws where staff/teachers and even college students can carry their firearm but they must pass a firearm training class before being permitted to do so. Even at times when someone on campus did have a firearm they were way too far away in another area altogether or building from the scene to get there in time.

 

[Tawny]

I prefer fewer firearms. JMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't think the teen shot his dad because his dad would prevent him from taking a gun. Well, of course the dad would prevent him if the dad knew the son wanted the gun. But, I think it would be plenty easy to sneak a gun out of the house. After all, the kid took a hachet to school, and I'm assuming he stole it and hid it. He could've done the same with the gun. But instead of sneaking the gun out, he shot his dad first.

Why?

I think he killed his dad because the kid hated his life (as he said) and was either blaming his dad or was REALLY crying out to the world until someone would pay attention. Well, he got attention.

Sad, tragic story from every angle.

jmo

Possibly but I have seen other cases where teen killers first will kill one parent or both parents and even siblings before they go on the murder spree.

I have seen some nonchalantly say they knew the parents would stop them from leaving the house and taking the weapon...so they killed them and we have to remember he wasn't old enough to drive either but he did anyway. That wouldn't have happened if his dad had lived.

Then you have the cold hearted sweet killers who said they didn't want to put their parent/parents through the trauma of having to live with what they did.

So who really knows. I have a feeling this teen can be a pretty defiant angry person and didn't like any rules to be applied to him even when he did terrible wrongs. Instead of trying to make themselves better they often blame the parent/s who set guidelines for normal society rules to be follow. Its much easier to blame someone else than take responsibility for one's own abhorrent behavior.

 

[Tawny]

Had to find some links to explain why.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/201...r-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-weisser/fbi-report-active-shooters_b_5900748.html


The good guy with a gun myth is a way to get more people killed. Most people are not trained in 1) handling their weapon well and 2) reacting with "fight" vs "flight" or "freeze" in these situations. The best thing to do is to hide if you can and run if you can't. The shooter probably isn't a good shot either and a moving target is hard to hit even if you're trained. BTDT threw away all the t-shirts.

All MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

I think the fire extinguisher idea would be a good idea if a shooter is roaming the halls and going room to room, a brave teacher(and in these situations, we see how many brave teachers there are) could ambush them when they came in the room. Unfortunately, there is no 100% way to end the threat without risk of great bodily harm and death. It's so awful that this is a reality. I am very interested in hearing how he got the gun, was it normally in a safe? It makes me so damn mad when children have access to weapons. Undeveloped brain, hormonal changes, immaturity in general are enough reasons to make sure weapons are ALWAYS locked up if not being worn.

I hear ya, but I honestly think the problem is something other than access to guns.

I grew up with guns in the house. They were not locked up. The ammo wasn't locked either. I never, ever even thought about touching my dad's guns. My husband also grew up with guns and had guns himself, and they weren't locked at his house either (though at least they kept ammo in a different place than the guns). No one in our families ever used the guns except on animals in hunting season. Probably most kids I went to school with were in similar home situations.

The problem isn't access to guns. The problem is an angry child/teen who has access to guns.

WHY SUCH ANGER?! That is the issue we're sweeping under the rug with each and every shooting tragedy. We don't want to face the anger our children have in this country and we're not willing to do the work to solve it.

I know many here will disagree with me. That's okay. This is how I see it. We've created rage and it's killing us. We either do something different than what we're doing now....or we wring our hands again at the next school shooting.

 

[bluesneakers]

Had to find some links to explain why.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/201...r-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-weisser/fbi-report-active-shooters_b_5900748.html


The good guy with a gun myth is a way to get more people killed. Most people are not trained in 1) handling their weapon well and 2) reacting with "fight" vs "flight" or "freeze" in these situations. The best thing to do is to hide if you can and run if you can't. The shooter probably isn't a good shot either and a moving target is hard to hit even if you're trained. BTDT threw away all the t-shirts.

All MOO

In the school situation my biggest concern is having firearms accessible to children. We've seen how often adults forget about them or leave them unsecured and it ends in tragedy. It would put too much responsibility on staff and faculty who are there to teach our kids - we already expect so much of them.

There's also a good possibility shooters would simply adapt to the circumstances.

 

[Tawny]

I think it's a combination of anger/rage, macho culture, and easy access to guns. He'd have still done damage, as evidenced by the hatchet incident. But he'd be less likely to be successful in killing.

 

[bluesneakers]

I hear ya, but I honestly think the problem is something other than access to guns.

I grew up with guns in the house. They were not locked up. The ammo wasn't locked either. I never, ever even thought about touching my dad's guns. My husband also grew up with guns and had guns himself, and they weren't locked at his house either (though at least they kept ammo in a different place than the guns). No one in our families ever used the guns except on animals in hunting season. Probably most kids I went to school with were in similar home situations.

The problem isn't access to guns. The problem is an angry child/teen who has access to guns.

WHY SUCH ANGER?! That is the issue we're sweeping under the rug with each and every shooting tragedy. We don't want to face the anger our children have in this country and we're not willing to do the work to solve it.

I know many here will disagree with me. That's okay. This is how I see it. We've created rage and it's killing us. We either do something different than what we're doing now....or we wring our hands againg at the next school shooting.

I think it's both. I grew up in a house like yours and my father was obsessive about gun safety. Not all parents are thought - some are careless, some are forgetful, some assume their kids won't do anything, but we've seen it time and time again (check some threads here) where a kid gets a gun and shoots someone. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes not. And a kid filled with rage might be patient enough to wait for the opportunity to present itself.

 

[Inthedetails]

I think it's a combination of anger/rage, macho culture, and easy access to guns. He'd have still done damage, as evidenced by the hatchet incident. But he'd be less likely to be successful in killing.

I'd rather focus on addressing why the kid has a desire to kill/hurt others. We can lock up everything in sight, but if the kid still has rage, what have we solved?

For the record, I don't like guns. I hate them! But I think the heart of the issue is not guns. And the solution isn't a lock on a gun cabinet (though, of course, I think it's wise to lock up guns).

Why are we raising kids who hate life??? That's the scary question.

 

[Tawny]

I'd rather focus on addressing why the kid has a desire to kill/hurt others. We can lock up everything in sight, but if the kid still has rage, what have we solved?

For the record, I don't like guns. I hate them! But I think the heart of the issue is not guns. And the solution isn't a lock on a gun cabinet (though, of course, I think it's wise to lock up guns).

Why are we raising kids who hate life??? That's the scary question.

That's generally the preferred focus and I definitely understand why. "Why was he angry and how can we fix it" is an abstract thing to focus on. We can't fix other people's anger.

ETA: Part of my post is another thing that could contribute to his anger: macho culture.

But I don't know this kid or why he was angry so that's just speculation.