GUILTY SC - Twins Davion & Trevon Wilson, 9 mos, smothered, Moncks Corner, 11 Oct 2006

[hoppyfrog]

You think murderers should roam the streets unpunished simply because they happen to have a mental illness? Most murderers ARE mentally ill but in most of the cases their illness did not cause the murders! "sheesh" back atcha!

We can not give the mentally ill a "walk" simply because they are mentally ill! And I'm one of 'em!

This is very irresponsible the way you are putting words in my mouth. I never said "murderers should roam the streets unpunished" or anything remotely like that. Calm down and go back and read my post again.

I said that mentally ill people need treatment so they will not be a danger to themselves or others.

This case is not about a mentally ill homeless person who refuses treatment.

This case appears to be about post-partum depression, which is highly treatable. Left untreated, it can lead to psychosis which can lead to murder. It's tragic. It's horrible.

But if treated, those who suffer from it will not become psychotic and will not murder.

 

[hoppyfrog]

I would not think that someone suffering from mental illness to begin with is someone who is going to be eager or motivated to voluntarily and regularly comply with therapy.

I have to disagree with that statement. I think it's a misconception. Don't most peeple who have colds, or a broken leg, or cancer want to get treatment and get well? The people I know who live with depression, anxiety, or bipolar disorder are desperate for relief and are willing to try anything to get it.

Granted, there is a certain portion of the population who will not treat their mental illness, just as there is a certain portion who will not properly tend to their diabetes, like you mentioned.

In this case, we're not posting about a mentally ill homeless person who refuses treatment and is therefore possible dangerous. That's a whole different situation. And you're correct that you can't force treatment. If someone who refuses treatment is dangerous, I'm not opposed to keeping that person out of society.

I completey agree that we need to protect children. If there's anything in the world I agree with, that is it in a nutshell. The question, of course, is how do you protect kids from someone who has undiagnosed and untreated postpartum depression (which I think is what's going on here)?

I hope as a society we can continue to educate each other about PPD, de-mystify it and de-stigmatize it. I hope the medical community makes sure to screen for it too.

 

[Mygirlsadie]

I had all 3 of my kids by the time I was 23 years old so yes I was a very young mom and basically doing it all alone since my husband is in the Army he was always deployed to some other countries I gave birth (c-sections) to my last 2 children all by myself no family around to help no hubby etc etc..Not ONCE did a thought ever enter my mind to hurt one of my babies. As a matter of fact I would feel guilty if I was exhausted and would fall asleep while feeding one of the babies a bottle in the middle of the night waking up to the baby crying because I dropped the bottle would make me feel so bad I don't understand and I don't want to understand what this lady was thinking it's beyond me...

 

[s_finch]

I have to disagree with that statement. I think it's a misconception. Don't most peeple who have colds, or a broken leg, or cancer want to get treatment and get well? The people I know who live with depression, anxiety, or bipolar disorder are desperate for relief and are willing to try anything to get it.

Granted, there is a certain portion of the population who will not treat their mental illness, just as there is a certain portion who will not properly tend to their diabetes, like you mentioned.

In this case, we're not posting about a mentally ill homeless person who refuses treatment and is therefore possible dangerous. That's a whole different situation. And you're correct that you can't force treatment. If someone who refuses treatment is dangerous, I'm not opposed to keeping that person out of society.

I completey agree that we need to protect children. If there's anything in the world I agree with, that is it in a nutshell. The question, of course, is how do you protect kids from someone who has undiagnosed and untreated postpartum depression (which I think is what's going on here)?

I hope as a society we can continue to educate each other about PPD, de-mystify it and de-stigmatize it. I hope the medical community makes sure to screen for it too.

Very good point!!

Maybe I missed the whole thrust of this part of the thread:waitasec: as I apparently got off on another tangent. Sorry. As far as PPD, I agree that it is treatable and that if it's true PPD or PPP (post partum psychosis) then when the illness period is over, there's no reason these women can't lead normal lives. Of course if they've murdered their kids already, then that complicates the whole scenario. I speak of this from the standpoint of one whose favorite aunt had PPD, but most probably was PPP. This was 50 years ago and she wasn't correctly diagnosed. Her official diagnosis was catatonic schizphrenia but in light of today's medical knowledge I'm pretty sure she suffered from PPP. She ended up undergoing 2 complete rounds of shock treatments and it was 2 years before she was back to "normal". After her recovery, she lead a full and fairly happy life although she struggled mightily to make it that way. She fought depression her entire life but was so determined to never slip back into that mental fugue that she forced herself daily to be mentally healthy Actually, I don't know how she did it. I admire her. So yes, I believe PPD and PPP are treatable and there's no reason to lock up those suffering from the disorder---however, they certainly need to be removed from the kids (my cousin didn't live with her mom for her first two years of her life, our grandmom raised her during that time) until their emotional/mental health has stabilized.

 

[OneLostGrl]

This is very irresponsible the way you are putting words in my mouth. I never said "murderers should roam the streets unpunished" or anything remotely like that. Calm down and go back and read my post again.

I said that mentally ill people need treatment so they will not be a danger to themselves or others.

This case is not about a mentally ill homeless person who refuses treatment.

This case appears to be about post-partum depression, which is highly treatable. Left untreated, it can lead to psychosis which can lead to murder. It's tragic. It's horrible.

But if treated, those who suffer from it will not become psychotic and will not murder.

What you said to me was this-

So that's how we should deal with people who are mentally ill: lock them up and throw away the key?? What century is this?

How about getting them the treatment they need so they can be healthy again and not be a danger to themselves or those around them?

Sheesh!

Hoppy

I never said we should "Lock them up and throw away the key"
And I never would if they are Psychotic or "Insane". But If I went out and killed someone I should not get away with it!!! And I AM mentally ill!! I have Bipolar, Tourette Syndrome, Panic disorder and OCD.

I have felt what I believe this woman felt. I was young, I was overwhelmed and I was mentally ill. I *wanted* to harm my own child while I was "actively" ill.

Likewise, it was "irresponsible" of you to think I am simply judging the mentally ill. As I said, if you had read my previous posts- you would see that I admitted my own "crazy" thoughts and have discussed how MY OWN mental illness worsened after I gave birth to my son and how I then lived severly mentally ill for several years prior to the proper cocktail of medications!

I know what it is to be sick in my mind, controled by a monster, and I know what it is to choose the "easier" behavior.

You think only "homeless" mentally ill people do not get treatment???? My own MOTHER refuses treatment!! MANY mentally ill people do- even rich ones!! It's a fact!

I will be happy to back that up with links later, but I have to go pick my son up from Rollar Skating right now.

 

[eve]

Yes Eve. You're correct. However, in the "Yates" case, "legal" definitions and "moral" definitions were jumbled in her mind. She knew that her actions would end their mortal lives, but she believed she was saving their eternal souls. Hardly a comparison in her mind I believe. She knew her "earthly" body would be punished by the acts, but I honestly believe she thought that she was doing the right thing. So, you can see that the "difference between right and wrong" is sometimes blurred when it comes to mental illness.

Jeana, I can see that about Yates. I think she is one of the cases where insanity may be a legitimate defense. At some level she knew what she had done, but the insanity elevated her actions to "right" in her mind and I do think she truly believed she was commanded to do murder. It seems this type of insanity is intensified when combined with religious fervor.

Eve

 

[OneLostGrl]

Jeana, I can see that about Yates. I think she is one of the cases where insanity may be a legitimate defense. At some level she knew what she had done, but the insanity elevated her actions to "right" in her mind and I do think she truly believed she was commanded to do murder. It seems this type of insanity is intensified when combined with religious fervor.

Eve

I agree with you regarding Andrea..

I think it's the Psychosis, hallucinations & delusions. Yates literally did not have control of her own mind. I also think that to a certain extent, her going off of the Haldol intensified the Psychosis, hallucinations & delusions.

I remember back when when I was having hallucinations- I used to converse with the voices. I know, i know- I'm nuts LOL. but I did- I would answer them back. It's a strange sensation to hallucinate... it feels almost dream-like. Ya really aren't in touch with what's real.

People like Andrea Yates is the reason there is the Insanity defense and why having that defense is so important but it's become so grossly over used for people who were not insane.

 

[s_finch]

I agree with you regarding Andrea..

I think it's the Psychosis, hallucinations & delusions. Yates literally did not have control of her own mind. I also think that to a certain extent, her going off of the Haldol intensified the Psychosis, hallucinations & delusions.

I remember back when when I was having hallucinations- I used to converse with the voices. I know, i know- I'm nuts LOL. but I did- I would answer them back. It's a strange sensation to hallucinate... it feels almost dream-like. Ya really aren't in touch with what's real.

People like Andrea Yates is the reason there is the Insanity defense and why having that defense is so important but it's become so grossly over used for people who were not insane.

So true.

 

[OkieGranny]

From April 2007:

http://www.postandcourier.com/apps/...ategory=PC1602&date=20070419&lopenr=304199974

White, 20, pleaded guilty but mentally ill to two counts of homicide by child abuse. She could have gotten life in prison for the Oct. 11 deaths of her 9-month-old sons Devion and Trevon Wilson.

Circuit Judge Roger Young sentenced White to 20 years, suspended upon 10 years served. White will end up serving about eight years if she stays out of trouble in prison, Young said. White also will have two years on community supervision, followed by five years on probation.

 

[LinasK]

The original poster explained herself later in this thread. I agree that the post sounded racist. I am willing to give the poster the benefit of the doubt that she did not intend it that way. Also, she could be accused of ageism by lumping young mothers in there, but I am not willing to accuse her of that either.

It sounds like she had recently read two similar stories regarding two young black women and this flavored her post.

Thank you. Rereading this thread 9 years later, I can see how my posts were miscontrued. Nothing could be further from the truth. People who know me in real life know I am not a racist. (Not trying to sound like Donald Trump here).