Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #6

[Hope4More]

After reading Kim Whittemore's "happy anniversary" post, I started re-reading her previous posts. Arias' cross-examination by Martinez, when seen through Whittemore's lens, is even more excruciating than it was to watch as it was happening in real time.

She picks up on so many nuances; some exasperating, some perplexing, some outright (though oddly) funny.

While reading those older posts, I ran across something that has always left me scratching my head. As Martinez methodically calls Arias out as being a grifter, the subject of Rachel (with whom she was living, but to whom she was not paying a dime in rent) comes up.

I might have missed it, but do we know anything of substance about Rachel? Do any of you who have read the texts, emails, etc. have any info about her?

And just to be clear, I understand that she's an innocent party, so not asking for any sleuthing about her, just wondering if anything came out about how they met and how Arias wound up living with her gratis...

No mention of Rachel anywhere other than in her journal and at trial, that I can remember, anyway.

IIRC, I had the impression from her journal that she stayed at Rachel's for several weeks longer than she testified to at trial, possibly to downplay the amount of time she spent scoping out a housing situation closest to Travis. Helps explain the unlikely scenario of Rachel unexpectedly deciding to get married and giving the just a few days to vacate.

The writes that she returned to Rachel's to spend the night at one point because she was tired of sleeping on the floor of her rented room. I think it was the next day or so they loaned the a futon. Maybe to ensure she didn't spend another night in their house?

 

[GigiG]

No mention of Rachel anywhere other than in her journal and at trial, that I can remember, anyway.

IIRC, I had the impression from her journal that she stayed at Rachel's for several weeks longer than she testified to at trial, possibly to downplay the amount of time she spent scoping out a housing situation closest to Travis. Helps explain the unlikely scenario of Rachel unexpectedly deciding to get married and giving the just a few days to vacate.

The writes that she returned to Rachel's to spend the night at one point because she was tired of sleeping on the floor of her rented room. I think it was the next day or so they loaned the a futon. Maybe to ensure she didn't spend another night in their house?

BBM

hahaha!

I've been in that situation (usually with relatives :/), so I can completely relate.

Still, I find it curious that she wasn't called as a witness, since she had to have intimate knowledge of Jodi's personality, as well as her comings and goings.

I can only imagine that Nurmi thought she'd have a negative impact on how the jury perceived his client, and Martinez thought it would be extraneous information which wouldn't help the jury understand the case.

I would REALLY like to hear her take on things, but I guess if it hasn't happened by now, it's not going to happen. Oh well...

 

[Val1]

No mention of Rachel anywhere other than in her journal and at trial, that I can remember, anyway.

IIRC, I had the impression from her journal that she stayed at Rachel's for several weeks longer than she testified to at trial, possibly to downplay the amount of time she spent scoping out a housing situation closest to Travis. Helps explain the unlikely scenario of Rachel unexpectedly deciding to get married and giving the just a few days to vacate.

The writes that she returned to Rachel's to spend the night at one point because she was tired of sleeping on the floor of her rented room. I think it was the next day or so they loaned the a futon. Maybe to ensure she didn't spend another night in their house?

I'd like to know in which church she had made this "close friend"(apparently close enough to tell her she was giving oral sex on a casual basis) that TA allegedly also knew... it's not like JA had been living in AZ, or was even Mormon, before moving to Mesa, right?

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/02/13/jodi-arias-testifies-day-6-live-blog
"4:53 p.m. ET: Nurmi asked Arias if Alexander ever encouraged her to end friendships with women. Arias yes, because he didn't like one of her friends she met through the Mormon church, named Rachel.

4:56 p.m. ET: Rachel told Arias she should tell her bishop that she had oral sex with Alexander. Arias said afterward, Alexander was very cold toward Rachel."

 

[Hope4More]

I'd like to know in which church she had made this "close friend"(apparently close enough to tell her she was giving oral sex on a casual basis) that TA allegedly also knew... it's not like JA had been living in AZ, or was even Mormon, before moving to Mesa, right?

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/02/13/jodi-arias-testifies-day-6-live-blog
"4:53 p.m. ET: Nurmi asked Arias if Alexander ever encouraged her to end friendships with women. Arias yes, because he didn't like one of her friends she met through the Mormon church, named Rachel.

4:56 p.m. ET: Rachel told Arias she should tell her bishop that she had oral sex with Alexander. Arias said afterward, Alexander was very cold toward Rachel."

I don't believe a word the said about Rachel, including that she talked with her about Travis and sex. Bull.

 

[b_lab7410]

Maybe the no shank toothbrush caused the 'roids. Its meant to be used in the pie-hole, not the poop-chute!

Unfortunately.. I developed the same conclusion. *ugh
:facepalm:

 

[MsJosie]

Is Rachel a real person?

 

[geevee]

Hopefully you locals will keep an eye out on this story! Maybe one is a .22 - or was it a .25 :thinking: caliber pistol that #whatever :jail: stole from her grandfather...

Thanks for the info! :wave:

If one of the guns is a .25, does anyone know if there's any possibility it could be tied to the crime, with Grandpa deceased and unable to identify it, and it having been in water for almost 8 years, could ballistics match the recovered bullet to it?

 

[stillwatersc]

BBM

hahaha!

I've been in that situation (usually with relatives :/), so I can completely relate.

Still, I find it curious that she wasn't called as a witness, since she had to have intimate knowledge of Jodi's personality, as well as her comings and goings.

I can only imagine that Nurmi thought she'd have a negative impact on how the jury perceived his client, and Martinez thought it would be extraneous information which wouldn't help the jury understand the case.

I would REALLY like to hear her take on things, but I guess if it hasn't happened by now, it's not going to happen. Oh well...

IMO 'Rachel' was fictitious so difficult to find.

 

[Deleted member 122533]

I'd like to know in which church she had made this "close friend"(apparently close enough to tell her she was giving oral sex on a casual basis) that TA allegedly also knew... it's not like JA had been living in AZ, or was even Mormon, before moving to Mesa, right?

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/02/13/jodi-arias-testifies-day-6-live-blog
"4:53 p.m. ET: Nurmi asked Arias if Alexander ever encouraged her to end friendships with women. Arias yes, because he didn't like one of her friends she met through the Mormon church, named Rachel.

4:56 p.m. ET: Rachel told Arias she should tell her bishop that she had oral sex with Alexander. Arias said afterward, Alexander was very cold toward Rachel."

Arias told Detective Flores (during a phone interview) that her friend Rachel moved with her to Mesa. This is from Websleuths very helpful transcripts:

" June 25, 2008 – Phone Interview – States Exhibit #304 Clip 14 – Day 4 Testimony – Detective Flores

44:34
DF: And you were actually out of town so it was in April when you left?
JA: Yeah, it was April. I spent um…I had…My friend Rachel that I originally moved down with gave me a futon to sleep on and I gave that back um…about a week, week and a half prior to moving. Her & her husband came out with this truck and they loaded it up because they were just lending it to me, and I didn’t want to move it. So they came and got it and I didn’t have a bed, and he was like, you know, “You just come stay with me.” And so I pretty much stayed there (clears throat twice) for the last week. "

There is frustratingly little about Rachel. Imaginary friend?

The following transcript by Websleuth's Beach helpfully reveals more about Rachel:

Transcript of Video 1 conclusion.29:42

"DF: So that was around the same time timeframe as the move and back and forth and…

29:45
JA: It was like a few weeks after the move. I was still living in…with Rachel over on Greenfield"

Earlier:

26:09
JA: Yeah. At the time I was sort of living more across town over by Greenfield. Do you know where that is?

26:12
DF: Okay. Yeah.

26:13
JA: It was at Greenfield near Broadway. Greenfield and Broadway were the nearest cross streets and that’s where the girl who I was originally talking with I moved in with her

26:21
DF: That’s kinda’ far from…

26:23
JA: Yeah. Yeah.

26:24
DF: Travis’s place.

26:24
JA: Umm…the thing about her, and… and… just to give you a background of why I moved suddenly, umm… she approached me the weekend after I got there and said, Hey…she knocked on the door and said, Can I talk to you for a second, I said, Sure, and she moved in with her boyfriend, umm, and they were engaged.

26:41
DF: Okay.

26:42
JA: And she said, Hey, I just wanted to let you know that Scott and I went to Vegas last week and tied the knot, and I was like, Really? And she was like Yeah, we haven’t told anyone but we didn’t want to live in sin, and she had already been sealed in the temple once and was waiting for her cancel

26:56
DF: (unintelligible)

26:59
JA: So they were going to have a civil wedding on a beach in Oregon and they did that the following weekend. She told me that on a Monday or Tuesday. It was the beginning of the week. She said the reason I’m telling you that is because I’m getting married this weekend and I have to go to town a few days ahead of Scott, you know, make arrangements, and now that he’s married man we don’t feel that it’s right that you were here in the house. She was like, I don’t want to inconvenience you but is there anyway you can stay with someone else or just find another place? At the time I was waiting on a house in Gilbert, (...) "

So which is it? She moved with Rachel? She then was talking about moving in? She didn't know Rachel was thinking of getting married despite moving WITH her to Mesa? It's all very strange, over embroidered.

 

[LinTX]

I don't even believe he's really visiting her at Perryville. IIRC, he's from Philly, and I don't think he's successful enough to be flying back and forth from there to Phoenix just to visit her. I believe he's intentionally implying that he spends time with her to incite fans and haters alike, in an attempt to make some kind of name for himself.

Except for (perhaps) one visit, it seems more likely that they just communicate by phone, and she uses him as a proxy to get her message out, just as he uses her to further his own objectives. JMO

Not that I believe he would still be on her visitor list, but he now lives in Phoenix according to his FB.

 

[TexMex]

Is Rachel a real person?

She (to Flores) says after moving in with her about two weeks later Rachel tells her she and her boyfriend had eloped in Vegas. They planned to do a formal wedding soon but married in Vegas so they wouldn't be living in sin. Rachel's husband is named Scott

 

[TexMex]

Arias told Detective Flores (during a phone interview) that her friend Rachel moved with her to Mesa. This is from Websleuths very helpful transcripts:

" June 25, 2008 – Phone Interview – States Exhibit #304 Clip 14 – Day 4 Testimony – Detective Flores

44:34
DF: And you were actually out of town so it was in April when you left?
JA: Yeah, it was April. I spent um…I had…My friend Rachel that I originally moved down with gave me a futon to sleep on and I gave that back um…about a week, week and a half prior to moving. Her & her husband came out with this truck and they loaded it up because they were just lending it to me, and I didn’t want to move it. So they came and got it and I didn’t have a bed, and he was like, you know, “You just come stay with me.” And so I pretty much stayed there (clears throat twice) for the last week. "

There is frustratingly little about Rachel. Imaginary friend?

The following transcript by Websleuth's Beach helpfully reveals more about Rachel:

Transcript of Video 1 conclusion.29:42

"DF: So that was around the same time timeframe as the move and back and forth and…

29:45
JA: It was like a few weeks after the move. I was still living in…with Rachel over on Greenfield"

Earlier:

26:09
JA: Yeah. At the time I was sort of living more across town over by Greenfield. Do you know where that is?

26:12
DF: Okay. Yeah.

26:13
JA: It was at Greenfield near Broadway. Greenfield and Broadway were the nearest cross streets and that’s where the girl who I was originally talking with I moved in with her

26:21
DF: That’s kinda’ far from…

26:23
JA: Yeah. Yeah.

26:24
DF: Travis’s place.

26:24
JA: Umm…the thing about her, and… and… just to give you a background of why I moved suddenly, umm… she approached me the weekend after I got there and said, Hey…she knocked on the door and said, Can I talk to you for a second, I said, Sure, and she moved in with her boyfriend, umm, and they were engaged.

26:41
DF: Okay.

26:42
JA: And she said, Hey, I just wanted to let you know that Scott and I went to Vegas last week and tied the knot, and I was like, Really? And she was like Yeah, we haven’t told anyone but we didn’t want to live in sin, and she had already been sealed in the temple once and was waiting for her cancel

26:56
DF: (unintelligible)

26:59
JA: So they were going to have a civil wedding on a beach in Oregon and they did that the following weekend. She told me that on a Monday or Tuesday. It was the beginning of the week. She said the reason I’m telling you that is because I’m getting married this weekend and I have to go to town a few days ahead of Scott, you know, make arrangements, and now that he’s married man we don’t feel that it’s right that you were here in the house. She was like, I don’t want to inconvenience you but is there anyway you can stay with someone else or just find another place? At the time I was waiting on a house in Gilbert, (...) "

So which is it? She moved with Rachel? She then was talking about moving in? She didn't know Rachel was thinking of getting married despite moving WITH her to Mesa? It's all very strange, over embroidered.

Hard to tell but it would be easy for LE to verify a Rachel and Scott living on Greenfield...so maybe it's true

 

[Hope4More]

OK, this is kind of creepy, maybe.

I skimmed through her journal entries for end of March 2008, remembering she wrote about Rachel again then (she did), and saw something I hadn't before.

She stayed days later in Mesa than first planned, and one thing she did was attend a PPL training in Tempe (Tuesday...April 2 or 3). Definitely not because she was the slightest bit interested in PPL, but maybe because sje knew Gus was doing the training.

Her PPL notes were typically very detailed about what interested her most (sporadic attention, no doubt), or she would say she was at training or wherever and do all but doodle to make it look like she was actually paying attention.

That Tuesday she took very few notes, and at the end of them she wrote--

1. (PPL is not a hobby).
2." 2 checking accounts"
3. "Good story to go with receipts"

Reading into that after the fact, or.....?



The Rachel thing--I think she was real. The wrote about her on and off in her journals, in entries that predated her wholesale fiction writing post-murder.

The lies to cover up or blur even little details. My guess is she found Rachel on LDS link up, and didn't know her from squat before that (she'd lied to Travis about already having friends in Mesa) , and that Rachel was likely not the best Mormon ever (if she had to break the seal or whatever it sounds like she'd already been married once, not to mention she was apparently living with her BF, not to mention eloping to Las Vegas, to be followed by a wedding on the beach).

None of that screams Mormon, which makes the 's story even more ludicrous, that Rachel the observant urged the to go unburden herself to her bishop about breaking the law of chastity. If Travis knew of and if he disliked Rachel, I'd bet it was because he didn't respect her as a Mormon.

((It's a specialty to reverse reality....Rachel being looked down upon Travis (which would see as an insult directed at herself) becomes Rachel the better Mormon than Travis....))

 

[Deleted member 122533]

Hard to tell but it would be easy for LE to verify a Rachel and Scott living on Greenfield...so maybe it's true

Sure, it would be easy to verify and it may well be true. I was intrigued by the link in Val's post which stated she met Rachel through the Mormon church. She also claimed to have moved to Mesa with a Rachel. It's possible that she met Rachel in Palm Springs, of course. Or are there two Rachels? :gaah: :thinking:

 

[geevee]

OK, this is kind of creepy, maybe.

I skimmed through her journal entries for end of March 2008, remembering she wrote about Rachel again then (she did), and saw something I hadn't before.

She stayed days later in Mesa than first planned, and one thing she did was attend a PPL training in Tempe (Tuesday...April 2 or 3). Definitely not because she was the slightest bit interested in PPL, but maybe because sje knew Gus was doing the training.

Her PPL notes were typically very detailed about what interested her most (sporadic attention, no doubt), or she would say she was at training or wherever and do all but doodle to make it look like she was actually paying attention.

That Tuesday she took very few notes, and at the end of them she wrote--

1. (PPL is not a hobby).
2." 2 checking accounts"
3. "Good story to go with receipts"
Reading into that after the fact, or.....?



The Rachel thing--I think she was real. The wrote about her on and off in her journals, in entries that predated her wholesale fiction writing post-murder.

The lies to cover up or blur even little details. My guess is she found Rachel on LDS link up, and didn't know her from squat before that (she'd lied to Travis about already having friends in Mesa) , and that Rachel was likely not the best Mormon ever (if she had to break the seal or whatever it sounds like she'd already been married once, not to mention she was apparently living with her BF, not to mention eloping to Las Vegas, to be followed by a wedding on the beach).

None of that screams Mormon, which makes the 's story even more ludicrous, that Rachel the observant urged the to go unburden herself to her bishop about breaking the law of chastity. If Travis knew of and if he disliked Rachel, I'd bet it was because he didn't respect her as a Mormon.

((It's a specialty to reverse reality....Rachel being looked down upon Travis (which would see as an insult directed at herself) becomes Rachel the better Mormon than Travis....))

BBM

She really wrote that?? Oh Juan, I think she was planning this long before end of May, as many of us suspected. Almost hard to believe this wasn't one of the pages she ripped out when doing the rewrite after the murder, even if it isn't exactly what it looks like, anyone reading the journal would believe it to be precisely what it looks like.

 

[Hope4More]

BBM

She really wrote that?? Oh Juan, I think she was planning this long before end of May, as many of us suspected. Almost hard to believe this wasn't one of the pages she ripped out when doing the rewrite after the murder, even if it isn't exactly what it looks like, anyone reading the journal would believe it to be precisely what it looks like.

She really wrote it. I missed it multiple times skimming those few pages because my tolerance for reading tedious PPL drivel notes ran out almost from the very beginning.

"Not a hobby."..OK.

"Two checking accounts"? Maybe.....if she's sitting there, mind drifting, thinking about opening a business checking account in Yreka.

But...."receipts and good story"?? Can't see that as a PPL note.

Neatly listed, too, those thoughts, unlike the paragraph of scribbled notes that came beforehand. And, for lots of reasons, it's very difficult to believe she was focusing at all on what Gus was saying, much less writing it down.

I think that was her own to-do list, whatever it meant.

 

[pocketaccent]

OK, this is kind of creepy, maybe.

I skimmed through her journal entries for end of March 2008, remembering she wrote about Rachel again then (she did), and saw something I hadn't before.

She stayed days later in Mesa than first planned, and one thing she did was attend a PPL training in Tempe (Tuesday...April 2 or 3). Definitely not because she was the slightest bit interested in PPL, but maybe because sje knew Gus was doing the training.

Her PPL notes were typically very detailed about what interested her most (sporadic attention, no doubt), or she would say she was at training or wherever and do all but doodle to make it look like she was actually paying attention.

That Tuesday she took very few notes, and at the end of them she wrote--

1. (PPL is not a hobby).
2." 2 checking accounts"
3. "Good story to go with receipts"

Reading into that after the fact, or.....?



The Rachel thing--I think she was real. The wrote about her on and off in her journals, in entries that predated her wholesale fiction writing post-murder.

The lies to cover up or blur even little details. My guess is she found Rachel on LDS link up, and didn't know her from squat before that (she'd lied to Travis about already having friends in Mesa) , and that Rachel was likely not the best Mormon ever (if she had to break the seal or whatever it sounds like she'd already been married once, not to mention she was apparently living with her BF, not to mention eloping to Las Vegas, to be followed by a wedding on the beach).

None of that screams Mormon, which makes the 's story even more ludicrous, that Rachel the observant urged the to go unburden herself to her bishop about breaking the law of chastity. If Travis knew of and if he disliked Rachel, I'd bet it was because he didn't respect her as a Mormon.

((It's a specialty to reverse reality....Rachel being looked down upon Travis (which would see as an insult directed at herself) becomes Rachel the better Mormon than Travis....))

I think she was consistently threatening Travis about breaking the law of chastity. She used Rachel as a reason for sure- I told Rachel all about our sins, she told me to go to my Bishop and confess and oh, she told me not to forget to wear a seat belt so I don't die before reaching my Bishop (remember her florid detail?), so you should too.

She was hoping Travis would (and should) decide to elope with her in Vegas followed by a civil wedding on a beach in Oregon. Just like what happened to Rachel, of course.

 

[TexMex]

OK, this is kind of creepy, maybe.

I skimmed through her journal entries for end of March 2008, remembering she wrote about Rachel again then (she did), and saw something I hadn't before.

She stayed days later in Mesa than first planned, and one thing she did was attend a PPL training in Tempe (Tuesday...April 2 or 3). Definitely not because she was the slightest bit interested in PPL, but maybe because sje knew Gus was doing the training.

Her PPL notes were typically very detailed about what interested her most (sporadic attention, no doubt), or she would say she was at training or wherever and do all but doodle to make it look like she was actually paying attention.

That Tuesday she took very few notes, and at the end of them she wrote--

1. (PPL is not a hobby).
2." 2 checking accounts"
3. "Good story to go with receipts"

Reading into that after the fact, or.....?



The Rachel thing--I think she was real. The wrote about her on and off in her journals, in entries that predated her wholesale fiction writing post-murder.

The lies to cover up or blur even little details. My guess is she found Rachel on LDS link up, and didn't know her from squat before that (she'd lied to Travis about already having friends in Mesa) , and that Rachel was likely not the best Mormon ever (if she had to break the seal or whatever it sounds like she'd already been married once, not to mention she was apparently living with her BF, not to mention eloping to Las Vegas, to be followed by a wedding on the beach).

None of that screams Mormon, which makes the 's story even more ludicrous, that Rachel the observant urged the to go unburden herself to her bishop about breaking the law of chastity. If Travis knew of and if he disliked Rachel, I'd bet it was because he didn't respect her as a Mormon.

((It's a specialty to reverse reality....Rachel being looked down upon Travis (which would see as an insult directed at herself) becomes Rachel the better Mormon than Travis....))

Travis was in no position to look down on anyone's Mormon cred...jmo

 

[Hope4More]

I think she was consistently threatening Travis about breaking the law of chastity. She used Rachel as a reason for sure- I told Rachel all about our sins, she told me to go to my Bishop and confess and oh, she told me not to forget to wear a seat belt so I don't die before reaching my Bishop (remember her florid detail?), so you should too.

She was hoping Travis would (and should) decide to elope with her in Vegas followed by a civil wedding on a beach in Oregon. Just like what happened to Rachel, of course.

That's my guess too, about threatening Travis with his bishop, and that she did it frequently, but always veiled as a concern for his or her own spiritual well being.

 

[Hope4More]

Travis was in no position to look down on anyone's Mormon cred...jmo

Peace.