Serious DNA discussion

[BBB167893]

Oh, were you addressing me?

Very well.

You're kidding, right?

It is RARE that I kid about this case, Holdon.

The vocabulary barely went beyond middle school. There were zero words that exceeded an elementary school spelling bee contestants ability, and the author even misspells common words like business (something JR's wife wouldn't do). The RN vocabulary and writing skill in English for a EASL is probably less than 5 years if they are dedicated.

I don't know about that, Holdon. I consider myself a pretty well-educated guy. I was the only kid in my first grade class who read at the 9th grade level (NO BULL!), so you can imagine what I was like when I got to middle school, and even beyond. And I never used fancy-schmancy terms like "attache," "monitor," or "hence." Just something to chew on.

Business is an easy word to misspell. Heck, I even slip up on occasion.

PLUS, I grew up with EASL relatives. My dear aunt is Japanese. She's lived in America for 40 years, and she still has trouble with American grammar. Just like I'm having some difficulty learning Japanese. (Again, no bull.) So I have a bit of experience in this area.

Thanks Ames, because it seems pretty obvious that FDE's have to cope with many factors and issues with request specimens.

Looks that way. Her point, I'm assuming, is that Patsy was not being "singled-out" by some "plot." It was SOP.

Again, as a juror on any case, I would give weight only to the non-request specimens.

Like I said: we'd make lousy jurors. I appreciate that you feel strongly about this, but it changes nothing.

Between all the surveillance and coersion, I don't think you could ever get request specimens that are valid.

That presents quite a problem for document examination, wouldn't you say?

 

[Ames]

Thanks Ames, because it seems pretty obvious that FDE's have to cope with many factors and issues with request specimens. Again, as a juror onh any case, I would give weight only to the non-request specimens. Between all the surveillance and coersion, I don't think you could ever get request specimens that are valid.

<<SNIPPED>>
.

You entirely missed my point. My point is that Patsy wasn't singled out, in any shape, form or fashion. All SUSPECTS when asked to give request specimens are all treated the same. You need to read all of the articles, if you haven't already. Request specimens do hold up in a court of law...but, the DOWN SIDE to them, as repeated on many handwriting collection websites, is that its much easier for people to disquise their handwriting. Its best to have BOTH non-request specimens and request specimens...if you are taking someone to court. Could this be why some experts couldn't rule Patsy out, and some experts couldn't rule Patsy in??

 

[Ames]

<<SNIPPED>>

Looks that way. Her point, I'm assuming, is that Patsy was not being "singled-out" by some "plot." It was SOP.


<<SNIPPED>>


That presents quite a problem for document examination, wouldn't you say?

Exactly...on BOTH points!

 

[BBB167893]

You made ONE mistake, Ames. Nobody ruled her out. There wasn't anyone who refused to rule her in! That's it.

Still, you ask a valid question, along with the one you asked me about the worn-down pen.

Speaking of samples taken before the crime, would photograph captions count? Let's just say.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Business is an easy word to misspell. Heck, I even slip up on occasion.

No it isn't.

I could write that word 50 times in 50 ways and never spell it b-u-s-s. And I was reading at a first graders level in first grade!

PLUS, I grew up with EASL relatives. My dear aunt is Japanese. She's lived in America for 40 years, and she still has trouble with American grammar. Just like I'm having some difficulty learning Japanese. (Again, no bull.) So I have a bit of experience in this area.

Maybe she wasn't a dedicated EASL student. You say that she is EASL, but you don't say she even studied English. There's many EASL people I know who aren't motivated to learn English so their grammer stays the same

 

[BBB167893]

Okay, so you don't misspell it. We can rule you out!

I never said I misspelled it like that, just that I did.

As for my aunt, I KNOW she studied SOME English, since she knew she'd have to go back to America with my uncle. Maybe it's just harder with some languages.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Okay, so you don't misspell it. We can rule you out!

I never said I misspelled it like that, just that I did.

As for my aunt, I KNOW she studied SOME English, since she knew she'd have to go back to America with my uncle. Maybe it's just harder with some languages.

English is said to be one of the hardest 2nd languages. Anyway, the dedicated EASL student idea works for me for some reason. TY. But what did you mean when you said 'high tone'?

 

[BBB167893]

Well, I never thought of English as hard to learn, but then it's my native language and a lot of the world seems to speak some of it (India, China, South Africa, etc.)

Anyway, the dedicated EASL student idea works for me for some reason. TY.

That's pretty clear, I'd say. I'm sure I've made myself clear by now. I mean, it's a bit difficult for me to believe that someone who is not a native English speaker misspells "business" and "Advise," but spells "monitor," authorities," "attache," "tactics," "underestimate" and "instructions" without a single slip.

But what did you mean when you said 'high tone'?

That's one of my little linguistic habits. I use it to suggest a high-level vocabulary, kind of pseudo-intellectual.

 

[BBB167893]

For those of you still interested, I have a few more observations.

1) The note contained a "motherly" quality to it. The writer felt the need to give detailed instructions, yet no real demands. Phrases like "adequate sized attache," "brown paper bag," stuff like that. Reminds me of my Mum telling me to have on clean underwear if I were in an accident.

2) The note writer cared about John Ramsey enough to make sure he was "well-rested." First time I've ever seen that. I mean, you're trying to shake someone down. I doubt you'd care about his being rested.

3) It starts out calling him "Mr. Ramsey" and later "John." A true ransom letter would probably remain consistent. The writer is just making it up as they go along, writing a story...just like a journalist might...

4) The note writer feels comfortable enough with John to use little family in-jokes like "fat cat," which was one of Nedra's little jabs, and "good Southern common sense," which the Paugh family thought was a real hoot.

5) Cares enough about JonBenet to mention a proper burial.

So, if you follow me, folks, coupled with what the professional profilers have said, we can deduce that the note writer is:

-a woman

-roughly 35-50 years of age

-intelligent, verbose and detail oriented

-a journalism student

-familar with John

-someone who cares about him

-someone who cares about JonBenet

Sound like anybody we know?

 

[robotdog]

For those of you still interested, I have a few more observations.

1) The note contained a "motherly" quality to it. The writer felt the need to give detailed instructions, yet no real demands. Phrases like "adequate sized attache," "brown paper bag," stuff like that. Reminds me of my Mum telling me to have on clean underwear if I were in an accident.

2) The note writer cared about John Ramsey enough to make sure he was "well-rested." First time I've ever seen that. I mean, you're trying to shake someone down. I doubt you'd care about his being rested.

3) It starts out calling him "Mr. Ramsey" and later "John." A true ransom letter would probably remain consistent. The writer is just making it up as they go along, writing a story...just like a journalist might...

4) The note writer feels comfortable enough with John to use little family in-jokes like "fat cat," which was one of Nedra's little jabs, and "good Southern common sense," which the Paugh family thought was a real hoot.

5) Cares enough about JonBenet to mention a proper burial.

So, if you follow me, folks, coupled with what the professional profilers have said, we can deduce that the note writer is:

-a woman

-roughly 35-50 years of age

-intelligent, verbose and detail oriented

-a journalism student

-familar with John

-someone who cares about him

-someone who cares about JonBenet

Sound like anybody we know?

i could take a wild SHOT in the dark who wrote it :crazy:

 

[robotdog]

after all the running around that night patsy was thirsty

she needed some iced tea. she was...what is the word im looking for ?

hmmm....errrr oh yea DEHYDRATED and needed something to take the pills she would need to take to ease the pain and to stay up....remember she didnt get much sleep

 

[Jane Osa]

I'm replying, in essence, so that 'heresyourhatwhatsyourhurry' doesn't hold me down - his thoughts really sort of bugged me out, as they say. I mean, WOW! I need to get over it...so, I am.

But, unfortunately, nothing in this case adds up. Nada. It's depressing. I still don't understand this garrotte business. (did I spell that right?!). I accidentally came across a picture from the back of her skull, and even right now, it makes me sick. It is hard to imagine anyone pulling that tight unless it's a 'heat of the moment' situation - or, perhaps this was a new 'punishment' technique that once everything had gone too far 'they' had lost control. Motive bothers me. Darla R. had motive in that she wanted insurance and to be rid of 'expensive' children- she was overwhelmed. I will admit the only motive here is shame & rage over sexual abuse. It's still so extreme.....If anyone will please humor me - what was John's relationship to Jonbenet? We know plenty of Patsy - but, what about John? I'm sorry, I don't have all the books, etc. Jonbenet got between patsy and john somehow -that's all I can come up with. I'm posting here because I'm not sure where else to - and don't think it's worth another separate thread....thanks...

 

[BBB167893]

I'm sure you could, robotdog!

Jane Osa, it's "garrote."

It is hard to imagine anyone pulling that tight unless it's a 'heat of the moment' situation - or, perhaps this was a new 'punishment' technique that once everything had gone too far 'they' had lost control.

Dr. Judianne Densen-Gerber thought it might be a leash to punish her for her wetting. "Okay, if you're going to pee like a dog, you'll be led around like one."

But that one's too far OUT there even for me!

I will admit the only motive here is shame & rage over sexual abuse.

Still thinking about what I wrote, huh?

It's still so extreme.....If anyone will please humor me - what was John's relationship to Jonbenet?

Kind of distant from what I can gather.

 

[Jane Osa]

The "I'm sure you could"

Are you responding to me or someone else?

 

[Jane Osa]

Nevermind!

 

[Jane Osa]

Thank you!! I've been spelling too french all along (ESL anyone?) - I was referring (rather cheeky like) to the 'business' spelling....

 

[Jane Osa]

Somewhere here I read there were 'urine spots' in the hallway? True?

For some psychological reason I need therapy for I just have difficulty in seeing John molesting her. I don't think it's too far out there to see P. as the culprit - but, then I think we are led off the scent, so to speak, by following 'cues' to do just that - suspect Patsy. I don't know enough about the behavior where abuse/incest is happening - are the relationships apparently close & 'happy' or is the 'distant father' routine more common?

I think focusing on motive is the easiest route to understand all this. I still don't fully jive with the 'bed-wetting' scenario. Unless, they used extreme punishments that then went too far (not as if any 'extreme' punishment isn't in and of itself too far - actually, any punishment at all for what one can't control, when dealing with a child, is too far).

 

[LinasK]

Uh, right here.

Thanks Ames, because it seems pretty obvious that FDE's have to cope with many factors and issues with request specimens. Again, as a juror onh any case, I would give weight only to the non-request specimens. Between all the surveillance and coersion, I don't think you could ever get request specimens that are valid.



You're kidding, right? The vocabulary barely went beyond middle school. There were zero words that exceeded an elementary school spelling bee contestants ability, and the author even misspells common words like business (something JR's wife wouldn't do). The RN vocabulary and writing skill in English for a EASL is probably less than 5 years if they are dedicated.

But has it occurred to you that Patsy misspelled 'business' on purpose to deflect attention away from herself, when she managed to spell 'attache' and 'hence' just fine?????

 

[LinasK]

May JonBenet Rest in Peace in the knowledge that as long as there is breath in the bodies of her supporters they will seek truth and justice.

May P. Ramsey ___ __ ____. (Fill in the blank.)

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[LinasK]

Sorry to interrupt. I have never been able to understand the determination of people who have no connection to this crime yet continue to think up the most curious and far out ways to make the parents guilty. It's as if it's a game. I do think it takes a wild imagination to do this from some of the posts I have read over the years.

It's not a game to us! :razz:We want justice for a little girl whose own parents used her and didn't care about her. I hope she is in heaven and her criminal mother rots in hell!:furious::furious::furious: