Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[truthspider]

Is the 911 emergency system in Suffolk County connected (shared/routed) to anybody in Oak Beach? Does Oak Beach have residents who volunteer their services in the event that a 911 call is pinged on their tower? Any medical or first-to-respond personnel in the Oak Beach gated community volunteering in that capacity? Finally, does anybody in the Oak Beach community possess a phone fetish that even he finds difficult to control?

me me me I know this one!

 

[hawkshaw]

With all due respect to my fellow Websleuthers, you don't have a friggen idea what you are talking about, and neither do I, for that matter. Flash, the cops don't seem to know much more than we do.

We don't really know if the GB4 and SG are connected to the other 6 bodies. We don't even know who the other 6 bodies are. Do we really know if they are prostitutes.

The only thing we do know is a body in Manorville is connected to body parts in Gilgo.

We really don't know if the GB4 and SG are victims of a serial killer in the same category of a Rifkin, Dahlmer, Gacy, etc. They may well be victims of a sex white slavery ring.

After 33 years of the disappearance of Etan Patz have the police and FBI dug up a building basement and all but accused an individual of burying Patz's body. Now they swithched horses in mid-stream and are concentrating their efforts on a new suspect, a man with serious mental issues that supposedly confessed to killing Patz. For whatever reason the FBI doesn't want to agree with the NYPD. The Manhattan DA seems to be of the same opinion as the FBI.

This case can be as far away as the moon from being solved. It is a possibility an arrest is being made as we speak. You just don't know because the police just don't know.

Son of Sam might still be out there if he stopped killing. He got caught despite the police department. Had it not been for the Task Force captain sending out detectives to re-canvass the area near the Moskowitz murder, Sam may still be out there. That is when the detectives learned a ticket for a fire hydrant violation had been written on the night of the murder. The cops that wrote the ticket never bothered to turn it in despite the fact a murder was committed within yards of where the ticket was issued. And they continued to deny they wrote the ticket. LUCK and Experience, nothing more.

 

[BKS]

We also know that Jessica Taylor (a prostitute) was dismembered and dumped in Manorville and Gilgo.

 

[BKS]

ok bks, but wheres your killer?

(50% of the time cph lies every time)

That's the million dollar question. So many sleazy characters and no one's talking. That's why I believe there is a conspriracy to hide the truth in Shannan's disappearance. I have to admit, my puzzler is puzzled.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Why does anybody lie? There are millions of reasons. No conspiracy theory here. People are people. Let's say that most of what Coletti said was accurate and he prevaricated only on the part that reveals his own fear--his fear of opening a door until after he called 911 and until after he saw the lights of a car through his window coming down the street. Then he opens the door. Shannan's already hiding under the boat in his yard. The jacket he later recounts as hanging off her shoulders is, in fact, way back up the road, in front of JB's driveway. Why would somebody tell such a fib, if that is what happened? Who knows. It's irrelevant anyway.

The gah is probably a manipulator of situations and that character trait has nothing to do with a possible little fib on the part of Coletti; it's just a serendipitous coincidence for him. That is all.

I do not think gah has all the people in this neighborhood lying for him, covering for him. If he could pay hush money he wouldn't; he does not trust people enough for that. Nah, the dude is acting solo. He probably likes to play chess in his spare time. This is his project and he gets all the credit.

Again, no conspiracy theories here. Just human nature at its best.

Coletti stated, he went to the door, he was at the door. So ... did he lie or not? Coletti stated, he saw also Pak and the dark SUV (which he couldn't from inside), did he lie or not? Coletti also stated, he saw SG hiding behind a boat and then running off. Did he lie or not?
Pak saw also Coletti. Did he lie or not?
See, if Coletti was not pout of his door, he would have lied. But then also Pak would have lied because he said, he saw Coletti. So, regardless how much you wriggle, either Coletti said what happened, what he saw and did or he told something else. And if he told something else, we have to ask why Pak is corroberating this story. Which, in essence is the base of every conspiracy: Lying for each other. So when you say, Colettit didn't saw, what he told, you say "he lied" and in connection with Pak's testimony, this means a conspiracy. So either you stand to your conspiracy theory or not, but not both at once, that is constadictive. Like Coletti lied for PAk, but there was no conspiracy.

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

I know 50% of you will disagree with 50% of what I believe, but here goes:
CH - scared liar
Coletti - scared, but told the truth
Brewer - cocky liar, spoiled brat, thief, aggressive towards prostitutes
Pak - professional liar, sissy and human trafficker
Alex Diaz - professional liar, pimp, women beater

Uhhhh ... I take the freedom to agree to 50%?

CPH - scared liar, but scared about what? That he is scared doesn't mean, he killed anybody, it means, he has to hide something, which can be one of a long list of possibilities.

Coletti - why scared? In no interview, in no article in no testimony, I could find any sign that he is scared. And why should he?

Brewer - I would like to add "voyeur" to that list. However, I would like to cancel "aggressive behavior towards prostitutes" because there is nothing even hinting that direction, no evidence, no other prostitutes came forward to tell about violence from his side. So this one is pure conjecture.

Pak - I would like to add "low level career criminal"

Diaz - true, but then, where is his direct connection to Oak Beach? Because only that would make him relevant in any kind of OB conspiracy.

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

me me me I know this one!

Which doesn't mean, he scans the police band, but only, that he is open for phone calls from the police. But hey, it's your obsession, not mine. Means you have to live with it.

 

[Peter Brendt]

With all due respect to my fellow Websleuthers, you don't have a friggen idea what you are talking about, and neither do I, for that matter. Flash, the cops don't seem to know much more than we do.

We don't really know if the GB4 and SG are connected to the other 6 bodies. We don't even know who the other 6 bodies are. Do we really know if they are prostitutes.

The only thing we do know is a body in Manorville is connected to body parts in Gilgo.

We really don't know if the GB4 and SG are victims of a serial killer in the same category of a Rifkin, Dahlmer, Gacy, etc. They may well be victims of a sex white slavery ring.

After 33 years of the disappearance of Etan Patz have the police and FBI dug up a building basement and all but accused an individual of burying Patz's body. Now they swithched horses in mid-stream and are concentrating their efforts on a new suspect, a man with serious mental issues that supposedly confessed to killing Patz. For whatever reason the FBI doesn't want to agree with the NYPD. The Manhattan DA seems to be of the same opinion as the FBI.

This case can be as far away as the moon from being solved. It is a possibility an arrest is being made as we speak. You just don't know because the police just don't know.

Son of Sam might still be out there if he stopped killing. He got caught despite the police department. Had it not been for the Task Force captain sending out detectives to re-canvass the area near the Moskowitz murder, Sam may still be out there. That is when the detectives learned a ticket for a fire hydrant violation had been written on the night of the murder. The cops that wrote the ticket never bothered to turn it in despite the fact a murder was committed within yards of where the ticket was issued. And they continued to deny they wrote the ticket. LUCK and Experience, nothing more.

I believe in the methods of behavioral profiling. I know, not everybody does. But if everybody would, Etan PAtz case would have been solved when profilers told LE to look for someone who WORKED in the area but didn't live there, not someone who lived there but didn't work there.
For the same reasons, I say, Manorville and LISK are two different SKs. That doesn't mean, that some of the fresher bodies in Manorville are product of the occasional garden vareity murder case, like drug dealer fights, or as the other guy, who had to get rid of an ODed victim (so no murder at all). So what we really talk in Manorville are the dismembered bodies of whi parts also popped up along the beaches.

Compare:

LISK - builds a neat graveyard from his trophy kills
Manorville: Dismembers the bodies and spread them all over the place

LISK - all his victims are Craigslist escorts
Manorville - the only identified victim was a street corner prostitute

LISK - tried to keep his bodies hidden
Manorville - placed torsos/limbs in places where they had to be found

LISK - local to NYC, familiar with Gilgo and the other beaches
Manorville - local to Manorville, familiar with Gilgo and the other beaches

LISK - medium kill frequency, ramping up after he got attention
Manorville - constant low kill frequency

So from my point of view, we deal definitively with two. Of course, since this is based on behavior, it can be ignored any time, but usually that doesn't make it wrong, it takes only longer to find those guys (like in the Etan Patz case for example).

Now, SG. She wasn't added to the graveyard, LISK had built with so much care. But the victim killed after SG's disappearance was added to this graveyard. Which, since SG's disappearance didn't cause too much media attention, indicates, LISK didn't know about her and her disappearance. So, not connected.

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

That's the million dollar question. So many sleazy characters and no one's talking. That's why I believe there is a conspriracy to hide the truth in Shannan's disappearance. I have to admit, my puzzler is puzzled.

But the urge to cover up an accidental death, connected with prostitution and drug abuse would be an as good motive as murder itself. Lets say, in some instances it's just impossible to increase the stupidity of people in panic to a higher level anymore.

Peter

 

[hawkshaw]

The Balt/DC Beltway murders were solved because a trucker saw something odd in a truck stop. Prior to that the cops were looking fora white van that never existed. The two killers were stopped several times at roadblocks. Luck my friend, and knowing it when you see it.

The NY Zodiac Case had a sketch of a chubby faced black man as the suspect when it was always a young, thin, light skinned Hispanic man. I knew that almost from the beginning. It was ignored because there were those that were looking for fame and glory. They needed it to continue as a black man because they got the false information. My pleas were ignored despite the fact I spoke to a victim of Zodiac two days before he died not of his wounds, but from a heart attack. 3 years of investigating and up to 100 detectives receivning tips as far away as London with sightings of the 'black man' and the case was solved when Zodiac was involved in a non-related hostage situation and a sharp Det.Sgt said, "could it be". We had a partial print and it matched. Case closed. LUCK, more than brains. Why did this cop get the idea it could be Zodiac? Who the heck knows, but that kind of stuff is not quantified.

Trust me there is no rhyme of reason to this, if there was most murders would be solved.

Detectives are over-glorified. I was one so I believe I can talk to that matter. We are just ordinary people that became cops and then became detectives for one reason or another.

The classic case was a serial killer in Buffalo. Prior to that he was a serial rapist in the same exact location he would later kill his victims. The Buffalo DA put a man in jail for a rape 20 years earlier. Some very good detectives went back to look at the rape case to find out if the rapist was out of jail. He wasn't. But something didn't ring true and so they went back over the rape case and found the real killer from his DNA. The Buffalo DA, a man of 25 years experience REFUSED to release the wrong man because his pride was hurt. The detectives went to the TV people and it all unraveled after that.

LUCK, and detectives that weren't afraid to find the truth and the courage of their convictions. The lead detective was suspended for discussing an investigation with the media. What INVEStigATION? The only person that should have been punished was this dirt bag lawyer pretending to be a DA for 25 years.

 

[Peter Brendt]

The Balt/DC Beltway murders were solved because a trucker saw something odd in a truck stop. Prior to that the cops were looking fora white van that never existed. The two killers were stopped several times at roadblocks. Luck my friend, and knowing it when you see it.

The NY Zodiac Case had a sketch of a chubby faced black man as the suspect when it was always a young, thin, light skinned Hispanic man. I knew that almost from the beginning. It was ignored because there were those that were looking for fame and glory. They needed it to continue as a black man because they got the false information. My pleas were ignored despite the fact I spoke to a victim of Zodiac two days before he died not of his wounds, but from a heart attack. 3 years of investigating and up to 100 detectives receivning tips as far away as London with sightings of the 'black man' and the case was solved when Zodiac was involved in a non-related hostage situation and a sharp Det.Sgt said, "could it be". We had a partial print and it matched. Case closed. LUCK, more than brains. Why did this cop get the idea it could be Zodiac? Who the heck knows, but that kind of stuff is not quantified.

Trust me there is no rhyme of reason to this, if there was most murders would be solved.

Detectives are over-glorified. I was one so I believe I can talk to that matter. We are just ordinary people that became cops and then became detectives for one reason or another.

The classic case was a serial killer in Buffalo. Prior to that he was a serial rapist in the same exact location he would later kill his victims. The Buffalo DA put a man in jail for a rape 20 years earlier. Some very good detectives went back to look at the rape case to find out if the rapist was out of jail. He wasn't. But something didn't ring true and so they went back over the rape case and found the real killer from his DNA. The Buffalo DA, a man of 25 years experience REFUSED to release the wrong man because his pride was hurt. The detectives went to the TV people and it all unraveled after that.

LUCK, and detectives that weren't afraid to find the truth and the courage of their convictions. The lead detective was suspended for discussing an investigation with the media. What INVEStigATION? The only person that should have been punished was this dirt bag lawyer pretending to be a DA for 25 years.

I don't know whether you heard it, but the first half of your post was like running in an open door! The whole point in profiling is to give Detectives a tool. It's not purpose in itself and it doesn't stand alone in an empty room. But it is a tool and as such should be used. But if the brass basically blocks, how would the detective at the base even get his fingers on a good profile? And feel free to count some DAs under "useless brass" as well.
So who counts are the detectives actually investigating, not a Dormer, not a Spota, those guys are only publicity cats. And as you describe it they are as much an obstacle in solving crimes for detectives than for amateurs.

Peter

 

[LINative13]

Too bad Varrone still is not working the case. He is a good man. A family man who probably gave a crap about the outcome.

 

[LINative13]

When me and my buddies catch fish we mix up a slurry of salt and ice water to keep the fish cold. After a fish is hooked it expends alot of energy to try and get away. Sometimes we can have a single fish on the line for over 4 hours trying to get him to the boat before we kill it. The fish produces lactic acid that can sit in the meat and ruin it if not properly cared for. So after we bleed a fish out by cutting a main artery by the tail, we get it cold ASAP. This mixture of ice and salt water does the trick quite nicely, in fact we have to be careful or the saltwater will actually freeze the meat. BTW the fish I am talking about range from 50 lbs-1200 lbs. So my question is can a human be preserved in a similar manner? Would a constant flow of cold salt water be enough to preserve a body without being as obvious as mummification or freezing? The reason I ask is because Flukeyou on the other board used to say the killer stored the bodies in the mosquito canals then placed them as he saw fit. Now I am not sure how warm or cold those canals are.

 

[Peter Brendt]

When me and my buddies catch fish we mix up a slurry of salt and ice water to keep the fish cold. After a fish is hooked it expends alot of energy to try and get away. Sometimes we can have a single fish on the line for over 4 hours trying to get him to the boat before we kill it. The fish produces lactic acid that can sit in the meat and ruin it if not properly cared for. So after we bleed a fish out by cutting a main artery by the tail, we get it cold ASAP. This mixture of ice and salt water does the trick quite nicely, in fact we have to be careful or the saltwater will actually freeze the meat. BTW the fish I am talking about range from 50 lbs-1200 lbs. So my question is can a human be preserved in a similar manner? Would a constant flow of cold salt water be enough to preserve a body without being as obvious as mummification or freezing? The reason I ask is because Flukeyou on the other board used to say the killer stored the bodies in the mosquito canals then placed them as he saw fit. Now I am not sure how warm or cold those canals are.

Just cold water would slow down things, but not for months or years as would be necessary in this case for a "store and depose" theory. We talk here in the range of years. So I doubt that.
Salt would also help, since some bacteria wouldn't like the environment. But then, one would need a lot of salt for the mosquito canals.

Peter

 

[truthspider]

When me and my buddies catch fish we mix up a slurry of salt and ice water to keep the fish cold. After a fish is hooked it expends alot of energy to try and get away. Sometimes we can have a single fish on the line for over 4 hours trying to get him to the boat before we kill it. The fish produces lactic acid that can sit in the meat and ruin it if not properly cared for. So after we bleed a fish out by cutting a main artery by the tail, we get it cold ASAP. This mixture of ice and salt water does the trick quite nicely, in fact we have to be careful or the saltwater will actually freeze the meat. BTW the fish I am talking about range from 50 lbs-1200 lbs. So my question is can a human be preserved in a similar manner? Would a constant flow of cold salt water be enough to preserve a body without being as obvious as mummification or freezing? The reason I ask is because Flukeyou on the other board used to say the killer stored the bodies in the mosquito canals then placed them as he saw fit. Now I am not sure how warm or cold those canals are.

something I have been thinking about lately is the reason for the season in which the killer seems to operate. may 1 - end of oct. seems to be the window. we have all speculated on the reasons, and it could be anything, but that window does seem to mirror the typical dates for boat owners to have their boats in the water. Many of the island residents have their own boats.

 

[LINative13]

Just cold water would slow down things, but not for months or years as would be necessary in this case for a "store and depose" theory. We talk here in the range of years. So I doubt that.
Salt would also help, since some bacteria wouldn't like the environment. But then, one would need a lot of salt for the mosquito canals.

Peter

Are we really talking years? The GB4 were placed within months. And I think those canals are tied into the bay; salt supply would not be an issue if that was the case.

 

[BKS]

Peter, I beg to differ.

# 1 Confused, where is there evidence that Brewer is a voyeur?
# 2 "Brewer grabbed her from behind at one point, Pak said. But she slipped out of his grasp and crouched behind a sofa, where she dialed 911 in a 23-minute call, placed at 4:51 a.m., and told the operator, "They’re trying to kill me." To me that is aggressive behavior.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html

 

[BKS]

Peter I'm confused by this statement you made "LISK - medium kill frequency, ramping up after he got attention" Not true. Because after the GB4 bodies were found, we don't know of any other murders.

 

[dcgrumpy]

Are we really talking years? The GB4 were placed within months. And I think those canals are tied into the bay; salt supply would not be an issue if that was the case.

MBB was killed in July of 2007, AC in September of 2010.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Are we really talking years? The GB4 were placed within months. And I think those canals are tied into the bay; salt supply would not be an issue if that was the case.

We talk the "months" from July 2007 till the September 2010, so the time between MBB disappeared till ALC disappeared. So, what? 38 months. And we talk salinity about that of the Dead Sea, which is much higher than Atlantic water can provide.