Shapiro is back in Denver following up on new leads on the Ramsey case.

[narlacat]

How is that? Lou Smit got into that window fine. Like he said in the one documentary, he isnt a small guy, but got in it fine. Maybe the killer struggled, and thats why there is a scuff mark on the wall?

The scuff mark was not in any way proven to be a shoe scuff mark, many things could have left such a scrape on that wall.
Smit slithered in backwards and took a significant amount of debri with him. There was no sign of debri found in the original search.
Smit eventually agreed that the small window wasn't a possible point of entry for the intruder.
He then moved on to the theory that the intruder had come through the broken basement window and that is where he thought the shoe scuff mark was.
The grate that covered the well leading to the broken window had spiderweb strands on it, making it quite obvious the grate had been undisturbed. Tests done later on the grate showed that when you moved the grate, the spider web strands broke.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Ah, the wonders of the search feature. It was Blue Crab who knew. According to him, the spider was of the species Agelendidae, and that species hibernates during the winter and will not repair it's web during hibernation. Thank you, Blue Crab.

 

[Zman]

Ah, the wonders of the search feature. It was Blue Crab who knew. According to him, the spider was of the species Agelendidae, and that species hibernates during the winter and will not repair it's web during hibernation. Thank you, Blue Crab.

According to him?
And how did BC obtain that info?

 

[scandi]

Wow! You guys are wonderful. Looks like Blue Crab is in to animals that crawl on spiney legs!

Scandi

 

[Summergirl]

According to him?
And how did BC obtain that info?

I think I heard that as well on another forum. Im guessing he studied the spiders in Colorado.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I called up the search feature, typed in "JonBenet spider species basement window", and was linked to thread from a year ago titled "Let's Lie About The Weather Now!" I'm pretty sure Blue Crab goes through how he knows what he knows.

 

[sissi]

Let's not forget the "bug guy" in the Westerfield case! Facts aren't always facts!

 

[RiverRat]

Like Jeff's prior involvement in this case wasn't enough already. Maybe he should try tracking down Alex Hunter and see how he sleeps at night these days.........

And Smit?! I'll never get over his audacity of displaying JonBenet's autopsy photos all over the telelvision. So different from here in Florida where the cops, prosecutors and Parents FIGHT to keep photos like that private. Yeah.............he needs to keep right on praying very hard.

RR

 

[BlueCrab]

According to him?
And how did BC obtain that info?

Zman,

The spiderweb info came from Dr. Brent Opell of the Opell Laboratory of Spider Systematics at Virginia Tech. The cops had sent Dr. Opell a large photo of the web and he identified it as from the species Agelendidae, a species that hibernates from October to March and wouldn't have repaired the web in December. There were three unbroken web strands that stretched from the edge of the iron grate to the window itself (PMPT pb, pg 57).

No one came through that basement window on Christmas night. In addition to the unbroken spiderweb, there were no footprints in the snow, which had not yet melted at 6:00 AM when the cops arrived and the temperature was around 10 degrees. And a chair blocked the only door from the train room where the window was located, which John Ramsey himself admitted he had to move aside to enter the train room.

BlueCrab

 

[jubie]

Like Jeff's prior involvement in this case wasn't enough already. Maybe he should try tracking down Alex Hunter and see how he sleeps at night these days.........

And Smit?! I'll never get over his audacity of displaying JonBenet's autopsy photos all over the telelvision. So different from here in Florida where the cops, prosecutors and Parents FIGHT to keep photos like that private. Yeah.............he needs to keep right on praying very hard.

RR

This picture always makes my stomach turn. Not for the same reason as many others. Yeah yeah she could be smiling at something cute somebody left. But who "poses" by their childs graveside.

She makes me ill.


Jubie

 

[Seeker]

Zman,

The spiderweb info came from Dr. Brent Opell of the Opell Laboratory of Spider Systematics at Virginia Tech. The cops had sent Dr. Opell a large photo of the web and he identified it as from the species Agelendidae, a species that hibernates from October to March and wouldn't have repaired the web in December. There were three unbroken web strands that stretched from the edge of the iron grate to the window itself (PMPT pb, pg 57).

No one came through that basement window on Christmas night. In addition to the unbroken spiderweb, there were no footprints in the snow, which had not yet melted at 6:00 AM when the cops arrived and the temperature was around 10 degrees. And a chair blocked the only door from the train room where the window was located, which John Ramsey himself admitted he had to move aside to enter the train room.

BlueCrab

BC, I'm not sure where you got this information, but I cannot find anything to confirm it at all. I don't remember all that being in PMPT either.
I find no listing for any Opell Labratory of Spider Systematics at Virginia Tech. http://www.cgit.vt.edu/ucgis/labs_facilities.html
In fact the only place I can find this information is on this forum by you.

The orb weaver (Araneidae, ordinary garden spider, encompasses over 2800 varieties) does not hibernate from October to March either. Hibernation (sleep cycles) depend on the weather only. As temps fall they will postition themselves with their legs curled under them in a sheltered area. Once the temps rise they will come out and rebuild their webs.

Again I'm at a loss for how you came upon the information you've posted here and would like some solid clarification of these facts. Thanks in advance.

 

[BlueCrab]

BC, I'm not sure where you got this information, but I cannot find anything to confirm it at all. I don't remember all that being in PMPT either.
I find no listing for any Opell Labratory of Spider Systematics at Virginia Tech. http://www.cgit.vt.edu/ucgis/labs_facilities.html
In fact the only place I can find this information is on this forum by you.

The orb weaver (Araneidae, ordinary garden spider, encompasses over 2800 varieties) does not hibernate from October to March either. Hibernation (sleep cycles) depend on the weather only. As temps fall they will postition themselves with their legs curled under them in a sheltered area. Once the temps rise they will come out and rebuild their webs.

Again I'm at a loss for how you came upon the information you've posted here and would like some solid clarification of these facts. Thanks in advance.

Seeker,

If you Google "Dr. Brent Opell" you will find anything you'd like to know about this spider scientist. His laboratory is under the Biology Department at Virginia Tech.

The spider was of the species Agelendidae, and is considered a house spider, not a garden spider. It hibernates all winter and would have never repaired his web during the bitter cold of Christmas night.

I gave you the page number in PMPT in regard to the three web strands stretching from the iron grate to the window.

The source of no footprints in the snow at 6:00 AM is from a sworn affidavit of Sgt. Paul Reichenbach of the BPD. The dusting of snow had not yet melted. Sunrise was at 7:20 AM on the 26th and most of the dusting of snow had melted by 7:20 as the unusual low temperatures that night quickly rose to 51 degrees later that day.

The 10 degree weather at 6:00 AM was affirmed by the National Weather Service, which recorded a highly unusual low of 6 degrees that night in Boulder.

BlueCrab

 

[capps]

BlueCrab,

I agree with you about the basement window,I don't believe anyone came through that window.

Now about the footprints ... hasn't it been said that,I believe it was Fernie,was flabbergasted about the "no footprints in the snow",because when he showed up at the Ramsey's around 6 am,he walked around the outside of the house a bit,and left footprints,but the BPD made no mention of it.

Any thoughts about that?

 

[Nehemiah]

Now about the footprints ... hasn't it been said that,I believe it was Fernie,was flabbergasted about the "no footprints in the snow",because when he showed up at the Ramsey's around 6 am,he walked around the outside of the house a bit,and left footprints,but the BPD made no mention of it. Any thoughts about that?

I don't remember reading that. Where was it reported?

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,

I agree with you about the basement window,I don't believe anyone came through that window.

Now about the footprints ... hasn't it been said that,I believe it was Fernie,was flabbergasted about the "no footprints in the snow",because when he showed up at the Ramsey's around 6 am,he walked around the outside of the house a bit,and left footprints,but the BPD made no mention of it.

Any thoughts about that?

capps,

The cops arrived at the house first. The cops arrived at 6:00 AM, give or take a few seconds. They saw no footprints in the snow. Fernie got there some 10 minutes later (he had a rather long drive from Table Mesa). Therefore, Fernie's observation was too late and irrelevant.

BlueCrab

 

[capps]

Thanks BC,

To be honest,I just heard it recently myself,I believe it was on one of the posts in this forum.I thought the comment was common knowledge,and that's why I asked your thoughts on it.

Guess I should have researched it more,but was lazy.Heaven knows I don't want to start any more false information than what's already out there!

 

[Seeker]

Seeker,

If you Google "Dr. Brent Opell" you will find anything you'd like to know about this spider scientist. His laboratory is under the Biology Department at Virginia Tech.

The spider was of the species Agelendidae, and is considered a house spider, not a garden spider. It hibernates all winter and would have never repaired his web during the bitter cold of Christmas night.

I gave you the page number in PMPT in regard to the three web strands stretching from the iron grate to the window.

The source of no footprints in the snow at 6:00 AM is from a sworn affidavit of Sgt. Paul Reichenbach of the BPD. The dusting of snow had not yet melted. Sunrise was at 7:20 AM on the 26th and most of the dusting of snow had melted by 7:20 as the unusual low temperatures that night quickly rose to 51 degrees later that day.

The 10 degree weather at 6:00 AM was affirmed by the National Weather Service, which recorded a highly unusual low of 6 degrees that night in Boulder.

BlueCrab

Sorry BC but that particular type of spider doesn't seem to build the type of web described in PMPT. I did get it mixed with the orb weaver. The Agelenidae are also known as funnel web spiders. Funnel webs are non sticky so it probably wasn't a funnel spider, but instead the very common orb weaver who's web is more like what was described. http://www.enature.com/fieldguides/detail.asp?recnum=IS0284

Are you saying you called this Dr Opell and he told you this because I wondered where you got this information. I don't recall anyone ever printing that the BPD sent the photo's of the web to him either. Yes I know he's a biologist at VT, but the lab you named does not exist at VT. I've never seen it in print anywhere that he had identified this particular web other than your assertions here.

I said I didn't remember "all that" printed in PMPT. Indicating that there is no mention of any Dr Opell anywhere other than on this board that I've seen (but I haven't read all the books on this case either). I also don't remember (don't have my copy of PMPT here) anything stating that the web went from the window to the grate. I just remember reading that there were some intact strands on the grate itself.

From all I can find, these spiders do not go into a true hibernation period. Once the temps reach 50 degrees (NWS states the high for Boulder was 52 that day) the spiders become active again. However, with people poking around I don't think any spider would be so inclined to try and respin it's web. Since no actual spider was found it's possible and most likely that the spider had already died anyway.

The cops arrived at the house first. The cops arrived at 6:00 AM, give or take a few seconds. They saw no footprints in the snow. Fernie got there some 10 minutes later (he had a rather long drive from Table Mesa). Therefore, Fernie's observation was too late and irrelevant.

Were there lights on all around the house? If not they may have missed footprints that early in the morning. It's pitch black out at that time of morning in December.

 

[Seeker]

I found it. It's in the Bonita Papers which are a bunch of facts with suppositions thrown in by the secretary who organized them so she could put them into a book and sell them. The Bonita Papers aren't exactly 100% factual or even correct in many places.

I have an e-mail in to Dr Opell asking him to verify that he said that and also if his lab at VT is called the name BC said it was. Hopefully he can clear this up.

 

[ellen13]

I have never seen spiders or regenerated webs in winter in the snow. I just don't understand how this spider could have made this web in those cold conditions. It's just my opinion that it was there but what the heck do I know?? Do any of you who live in cold climate with snow ever see spider webs in the winter with spiders out and about? I never have.
ps: i never read any reports by spider specialists so I have no clue what the literature stated. I'm just stating what I have and have not seen living in the snow.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I don't think anyone went in or out throught that window, regardless of condition of web or hibernation pattern of spider that spun it. I'm pretty sure if there was an intruder, he would have checked the doors before assuming he needed to gain entrance through a window, and John Ramsey claimed they forgot to turn on their alarm system that night. The window is also extremely small, and JR himself said there was a chair there when he checked that room the morning of the 26th.