Shapiro is back in Denver following up on new leads on the Ramsey case.

[tipper]

Sorry, I can't resist this -- you are quoting Steve Thomas' book as a source?? What happened to:-

Tipper
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=956901&postcount=78

Yes. If you read along you'll see in post #46 I mention my reservations about Thomas.

 

[BlueCrab]

Okay, here's some additional info from PMPT pb, pg 344-45:

"On April 2, Detective Michael Everett of the Boulder PD called entomologist Dr. Brent Opell of the Virginia State University Department of Biology, who was known as Mr. Spider Man. Opell told the police that there are two general types of spiderwebs. The first, which are called cob or funnel webs, once established are constantly reworked and added to by the spider. The second, manufactured by orb-weaving spiders, is regularly replaced by the spiders and can be completed at any hour of the day, in less than twelve hours. ..... Everett sent Dr. Opell an enlarged and enhanced photograph of the type of web in question. The entomologist said it appeared to be of the funnel type.

"Six months later, on October 25, Everett traveled to Vancouver Island and met with another expert, Dr. Robert Bennett of the British Columbia Ministry of Forests. The detective had with him a newly enlarged and enhanced photograph of the strands of the web that had covered part of the window grate. Bennett confirmed that it was a funnel web."

Bennett also had this to say:

"Spiders hibernate in the winter in temperate zones. Boulder is definitely a temperate zone. Therefore, during winter, there is markedly less or no activity at all by the spiders normally found in Boulder."

BlueCrab

 

[tipper]

i wonder what was happening in March in the investigation to generate interest in the spiderweb.

Found it: Smit came onboard.

 

[tipper]

Okay, here's some additional info from PMPT pb, pg 344-45:

"On April 2, Detective Michael Everett of the Boulder PD called entomologist Dr. Brent Opell of the Virginia State University Department of Biology, who was known as Mr. Spider Man. Opell told the police that there are two general types of spiderwebs. The first, which are called cob or funnel webs, once established are constantly reworked and added to by the spider. The second, manufactured by orb-weaving spiders, is regularly replaced by the spiders and can be completed at any hour of the day, in less than twelve hours. ..... Everett sent Dr. Opell an enlarged and enhanced photograph of the type of web in question. The entomologist said it appeared to be of the funnel type.

"Six months later, on October 25, Everett traveled to Vancouver Island and met with another expert, Dr. Robert Bennett of the British Columbia Ministry of Forests. The detective had with him a newly enlarged and enhanced photograph of the strands of the web that had covered part of the window grate. Bennett confirmed that it was a funnel web."

Bennett also had this to say:

"Spiders hibernate in the winter in temperate zones. Boulder is definitely a temperate zone. Therefore, during winter, there is markedly less or no activity at all by the spiders normally found in Boulder."

BlueCrab

But then he goes on to say:

"In your situation - Boulder, winter snow falling, then melting away, the falling, the weather warm enough - the spider would definitely be out.

[...]
Again in your case, a web was broken one night when someone came by. The temperature rose the next day, and that day or thereafter a new web could have been spun."

The man needs to make up his mind.

 

[BlueCrab]

But then he goes on to say:

"In your situation - Boulder, winter snow falling, then melting away, the falling, the weather warm enough - the spider would definitely be out.

tipper,

Bennett apparently wasn't aware the temperatures dipped to 6 degrees in Boulder that night and didn't rise to 51 degrees until in the afternoon. The afternoon temperatures were irrelevant. It was 10 degrees when the cops got there at 6:00 AM

The Agelendidae species of spider wouldn't have come out of hibernation to repair its web in 6 to 10 degree weather.

BlueCrab

 

[capps]

tipper,

Bennett apparently wasn't aware the temperatures dipped to 6 degrees in Boulder that night and didn't rise to 51 degrees until in the afternoon. The afternoon temperatures were irrelevant. It was 10 degrees when the cops got there at 6:00 AM

The Agelendidae species of spider wouldn't have come out of hibernation to repair its web in 6 to 10 degree weather.

BlueCrab

I agree.No spiders making webs that day.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Spiders making or not making webs is probably not relevant.

First of all, in the case of a foreign faction perp (the one stipulated in the ransom note), he would've travelled a long way, so he probably had a better, less conspicuous plan than to walk alongside the house and slip into or out of a grating.

Secondly, even if it was summer, a spider could respin a web in only a couple of hours. The presence or absence of a web doesn't seem very significant.

 

[aussiesheila]

Okay, here's some additional info from PMPT pb, pg 344-45:

"On April 2, Detective Michael Everett of the Boulder PD called entomologist Dr. Brent Opell of the Virginia State University Department of Biology, who was known as Mr. Spider Man. Opell told the police that there are two general types of spiderwebs. The first, which are called cob or funnel webs, once established are constantly reworked and added to by the spider. The second, manufactured by orb-weaving spiders, is regularly replaced by the spiders and can be completed at any hour of the day, in less than twelve hours. ..... Everett sent Dr. Opell an enlarged and enhanced photograph of the type of web in question. The entomologist said it appeared to be of the funnel type.

"Six months later, on October 25, Everett traveled to Vancouver Island and met with another expert, Dr. Robert Bennett of the British Columbia Ministry of Forests. The detective had with him a newly enlarged and enhanced photograph of the strands of the web that had covered part of the window grate. Bennett confirmed that it was a funnel web."

Bennett also had this to say:

"Spiders hibernate in the winter in temperate zones. Boulder is definitely a temperate zone. Therefore, during winter, there is markedly less or no activity at all by the spiders normally found in Boulder."

BlueCrab

I haven't got my copy of PMPT with me BlueCrab, but I'm pretty sure that this guy went on to say that if a spider of this type happened to be in an area that was exceptionally warm for whatever reason, it would be active all winter and if its web was disturbed it would set about repairing it immediately.

I think that the window well at the basement of the Ramsey house would have been exceptionally warm and adequate to stop a spider hibernating for winter. It was probably warm enough and lit up frequently enough to stop some insects from hibernating too and to act as the spider's food supply.

 

[aussiesheila]

tipper,

Bennett apparently wasn't aware the temperatures dipped to 6 degrees in Boulder that night and didn't rise to 51 degrees until in the afternoon. The afternoon temperatures were irrelevant. It was 10 degrees when the cops got there at 6:00 AM

The Agelendidae species of spider wouldn't have come out of hibernation to repair its web in 6 to 10 degree weather.

BlueCrab

So BlueCrab, you know for sure that it was 6 degrees overnight right down there in that window well do you? Absolutely no possibility that it was actually reasonably warm down there with the heat from the basement coming out from the window and rising up through the well?

 

[harleysnana]

I'm not sure if this will help at all but wanted to say...
I live in Utah. We have funnel web spiders that actually
spun webs on our front door and bushes this summer.
All summer long I had to keep knocking the webs down and
the last time I did was around October when I was decorating for Halloween.
Up until this past month we had a very warm winter with little to no snow and since October...the spiders have not re spun their webs!

 

[BlueCrab]

Up until this past month we had a very warm winter with little to no snow and since October...the spiders have not re spun their webs!

harleysnana,

Thank you for that personal account of spider behavior. It supports what both experts mentioned in this discussion have stated -- funnel web spiders hibernate in the winter.

The unbroken strands of web connecting the iron grate to the masonry in the window well that two police eyewitnesses saw early that morning were not likely the result of the spider repairing its web. The spider certainly had to be hibernating. The bitter cold would have killed it. The unbroken strands witnessed by the cops had to have been old, and therefore no intruder came through that window on the night of the murder..

BlueCrab

 

[tipper]

harleysnana,

Thank you for that personal account of spider behavior. It supports what both experts mentioned in this discussion have stated -- funnel web spiders hibernate in the winter.

The unbroken strands of web connecting the iron grate to the masonry in the window well that two police eyewitnesses saw early that morning were not likely the result of the spider repairing its web. The spider certainly had to be hibernating. The bitter cold would have killed it. The unbroken strands witnessed by the cops had to have been old, and therefore no intruder came through that window on the night of the murder..

BlueCrab

I'm not sure we know that they saw it that morning.

Thomas just says "in December" and given that originally BPD thought they were done in what? an hour and a half? I don't know how carefully they were looking at minute things like spider webs that day.

 

[Jayelles]

Yes. If you read along you'll see in post #46 I mention my reservations about Thomas.

Well you said his research and verification of facts in his book was shoddy but then you used his book as a source to support a point you were making. I'm curious to know whether you regard his research and verification of this particular fact to be unshoddy. If so - what criteria do you use to decide whether a fact has been shoddily researched and verified?

 

[Rupert]

I feel sorry for Jim Kolar. He will be restling with this thing until hell freezes over.

 

[trixie]

I feel sorry for Jim Kolar. He will be restling with this thing until hell freezes over.

If that DNA ever gets a hit at the databank he will have a nervous breakdown, IMO. I think he thinks at this point this case is light duty.

 

[Seeker]

No. I provide Thomas as the source. Seeker provided Opell's address if you want to write him. Much as I would like to read his email I don't know whether Seeker has his permission. I have ever written people and they specifically asked me not to post their answer because they didn't want to get involved with the forums.

Thanks but don't bother tipper. Some of us are willing to actually try and sleuth out information while other's want everything handed to them. Even when you give them first hand information they still want you to "prove it" to them instead of following up on it themselves. Give them the e-mail, phone, and where and when they can talk to someone for themselves and they can't be bothered...so it's obviously not really important to them and they only want to keep what fits their agenda.

I no longer bother with those who aren't willing to try and get any information for themselves. I'm not going to waste my time with this anymore.

 

[RiverRat]

Soooooooooooo, I take it that Jeff hasn't produced anything new and exciting since he stumbled into Denver. And what kind of leads are in Denver anyhow? John Andrew? Did John and Patsy grace Shapiro with their presence during their recent Traveling Show?! Will Seeker ever seek out our answers again?!

LOL - Stay Tuned.......

 

[Eagle1]

I agree that a competent intruder would have other ways of entering rather than through a smallish bsmt window, for instance quite a few ground-level windows were open enough to run Christmas lighting wires through.

But fwiw, as someone, maybe Seeker, said, there's 2800 varieties of this particular spider, and maybe no expert is THAT expert? Especially from memory. It's probably a moot question anyway. There were so many other ways to gain entry. The walker seen by Barnhill before dark probably turned off the usual outside light and, if any window or door needed any preparation of any kind, maybe moving anything that would have been knocked over and made noise, probably also did that, JUST GUESSING, obviously.