Sheila and Katherine Lyon-sisters missing since 1975 - #1

[los2188]

Sex offender admits to leaving Md. mall with missing Lyon Sisters

A sex offender told investigators he left a Maryland shopping mall with two young sisters who disappeared in 1975 and later saw his uncle sexually assaulting one of the girls, according to newly unsealed police affidavits.

Authorities have been searching for the remains of 12-year-old Sheila Lyon and 10-year-old Katharine Lyon on a remote mountain in Bedford County, Virginia, some 200 miles from their Montgomery County, Maryland, home, since September. A Bedford County grand jury also is investigating.

The Washington Post (http://wapo.st/19Qqopa) reported Saturday that Montgomery County police, citing the ongoing investigation, declined to comment on the affidavits or how credible they find 58-year-old Lloyd Welch's recent statements. Police have named Welch and his uncle, 69-year-old Richard Welch, "persons of interest" in the case, but neither has been charged.

In an earlier letter to the newspaper, Lloyd Welch said he had nothing to do with the girls' disappearance. Richard Welch has declined to comment.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/affidavit-man-admits-leaving-mall-missing-md-sisters-29127073

 

[Indy Anna]

<snip>

"Our department and our partners in Virginia remain committed to determining what happened to Katherine and Sheila Lyon," Montgomery Police Chief Tom Manger said Friday. "We believe that there are people, including family members of Dick and Lloyd Welch, who have information that would further this investigation."

Richard Welch's wife, Patricia, was charged with perjury after testifying before the grand jury in December.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/affidavit-man-admits-leaving-mall-missing-md-sisters-29127073

Just awful to think that not only did one or both of these men harm the Lyons girls, but other Welch family members had knowledge of what was going on and did nothing to help the girls.

I can't help but think that the reason LW went back to the mall a week after the abduction to tell a security guard that he saw the girls leave in a car with a man was to taunt LE and the Lyons family. It was April 1 when he did so --- April Fool's Day. Is that why he chose that date and reported what he "witnessed" to a security guard (rather than a police officer)? I really hope he never sees daylight again and that RW also end up behind bars for the rest of his life. It's so unfair what they have put the Lyons family through. I hope that ultimately the girls' family can have a measure of peace knowing that justice is served.

 

[Motherof5]

Sex offender admits to leaving Md. mall with missing Lyon Sisters

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/affidavit-man-admits-leaving-mall-missing-md-sisters-29127073

LWJ left out his part in this. I think this RSO was involved up to his eyeballs along with his uncle. He didn't JUST see what happened. He was an equal evil partner. JMO

 

[WaynezWorld]

I'm not sure why I need to mention this but when I visualize these innocent girls eating pizza at Wheaton Plaza, I shudder to think how small and harmless they were. A child that size cannot even take a very large bite from a slice of pizza for God's sake.

When I think of this perspective, I just cannot imagine how sick and selfish anyone who would harm them would have to be. I hadn't thought of this case for years until LLW's name popped, I was roughly the sisters age when this happened.

Mercy should only be given to these scumbags with a truthful and honest confession. I really hope to hear about an arrest and closure for the sake of the parents and any child who grew up knowing about this worst of crimes.

 

[siriunsun]

I hope Patricia and all others in the family who knew about this go to prison, too.

 

[Indy Anna]

<snip>

The paper also tracked down the juvenile Lloyd Welch said was in the car during the kidnapping. Thomas Welch is a cousin of Lloyd Welch and was 10 ½ in 1975.

“I haven’t done anything,” he said. He also said he doesn't think Richard Welch, his uncle, was involved in the girls disappearance but isn't so certain about his cousin.

“If Lloyd did this, I hope he fries for it,” Thomas Welch told the Post.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/2...t-maryland-mall-with-sisters-on-day-vanished/

I'm interested in knowing what TW remembers of the girls and the day they were abducted. LW claims TW was also in the car driven by RW, but TW says he doesn't believe RW was involved in the kidnapping. Other family members have defended RW also. Is LW alone guilty though pointing a finger at others?

The rarity of double kidnappings has been discussed on Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey's thread. Could LW have pulled this off unassisted? How does one person whisk 2 young girls away in a public place without creating a scene?

TW was around Sheila Lyon's age at the time of the kidnapping. I wonder if Thomas and Sheila knew each other from school. Could TW have been used to lure the girls into the car? Is that why he said, "I haven't done anything." He wasn't even 11 at the time but he sounds defensive. And he would know that his uncle wasn't involved only if he was with LW the day of the kidnapping. He certainly doesn't try to defend LW.

I wonder if TW, assuming he was present when the girls were abducted, has suppressed memories of that day? Has he lived with a lot of guilt through the years for his part in the abduction although he were an innocent pawn? He may be key to solving this case yet. I hope he is cooperating with LE and police psychologists to retrieve those suppressed memories.

 

[siriunsun]

<snip>
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/2...t-maryland-mall-with-sisters-on-day-vanished/

I'm interested in knowing what TW remembers of the girls and the day they were abducted. LW claims TW was also in the car driven by RW, but TW says he doesn't believe RW was involved in the kidnapping. Other family members have defended RW also. Is LW alone guilty though pointing a finger at others?

The rarity of double kidnappings has been discussed on Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey's thread. Could LW have pulled this off unassisted? How does one person whisk 2 young girls away in a public place without creating a scene?

TW was around Sheila Lyon's age at the time of the kidnapping. I wonder if Thomas and Sheila knew each other from school. Could TW have been used to lure the girls into the car? Is that why he said, "I haven't done anything." He wasn't even 11 at the time but he sounds defensive. And he would know that his uncle wasn't involved only if he was with LW the day of the kidnapping. He certainly doesn't try to defend LW.

I wonder if TW, assuming he was present when the girls were abducted, has suppressed memories of that day? Has he lived with a lot of guilt through the years for his part in the abduction although he were an innocent pawn? He may be key to solving this case yet. I hope he is cooperating with LE and police psychologists to retrieve those suppressed memories.

I hope he has an attorney, and I hope everyone remembers what it is like to be ten. He may be a witness to the girls getting in the car, but simply not know what happened afterwards. If LLW is correct, and not shining everyone, Thomas's testimony could mean everything here.

 

[winterrayne]

One thing i find wierd about lloyds story is the part about what he says he went over to raw house and saw him molesting the girls. I know anything is possible, but with kids and a wife at home, i find that a little unlikely. I saw the picture of the house they lived in, it looks pretty small. Even with that detached garage, there still isn't much room there to keep anything a secret. living in a small house myself, i can tell you, you can't do jack here without the other person knowing about it. I'm from hyattsville, and i can tell you the houses are close to each other.
i guess my questions are....
Was his family away that week?
Did his wife know, so he didn't really have to hide it ?
Did the neighbors see anything?
Does that house have a basement? "Preferably" one that you get to from the outside?

ETA. Under the description of the house, i dont see that there is a basement listed. Surprisingly it says its 1596sq ft, looks alot smaller then that in the picture on another thread!!

 

[siriunsun]

Agreed. The stuff about going over the next day and seeing the girls alive is outside of the norm of statistics for stranger abductions, in and of itself; but the claim that he walked in on a quietly conducted rape is nothing short of outrageous.

 

[winterrayne]

I agree, of that whole new story he told, him walking in on rape in progress just seems really out there! I may have believed the rest of it until i read that part. I mean statistically what would even be the chances of someone happening to walk in on something like that. Perhaps he phrased it wrong, and he saw the girls at the house or something like that. Who knows with him.
I only know one member of the family, and looking back (as in apples don't fall far from the tree) I'm not going to say this is very surprising ( if raw is even involved). I recently talking to an ex boyfriend of mine that knows and hung with the same one i know, and we were discussing this case and he said "i always knew something was up with that ( insert colorful language here) family".
I'm not going to bad mouth someone that has nothing to do with the case ( except being a family member) but when i started reading about this case, i started thinking back to how he acted and it did make me think hmmmm.

 

[crcurrie]

he said "i always knew something was up with that ( insert colorful language here) family".

According to the October article in the Hyattsville Life & Times, LLW's stepmom said that the family "drank a lot and we had fights a lot, policemen done come to my door a lot and that’s not no more than any other family.”

In my mind, that describes the question here. A lot of Appalachian families settled in Hyattsville in the 1960s and '70s, and some of them brought family and social dysfunction with them that was only exacerbated by the disruptive transition from rural to urban life. LLW's mom exaggerates considerably when she said it was typical for neighborhood families to get regular police calls, but I can attest that even today, a fair amount of police activity here deals with the remnants of some of these more dysfunctional Appalachian clans.

However, it's one thing to drink, fight and commit petty property crimes, and another to rape and kill young girls. There's no question that the extended Welch clan in Hyattsville is pretty messed up, but other than perhaps LLW himself, who is considered a black sheep in the family, I'm not sure RAW or any of the others has demonstrated yet that they are likely murderers (with the qualifier that we don't know yet all of the evidence that the Grand Jury is looking at or the results of the current forensic investigations).

 

[siriunsun]

According to the October article in the Hyattsville Life & Times, LLW's stepmom said that the family "drank a lot and we had fights a lot, policemen done come to my door a lot and that’s not no more than any other family.”

In my mind, that describes the question here. A lot of Appalachian families settled in Hyattsville in the 1960s and '70s, and some of them brought family and social dysfunction with them that was only exacerbated by the disruptive transition from rural to urban life. LLW's mom exaggerates considerably when she said it was typical for neighborhood families to get regular police calls, but I can attest that even today, a fair amount of police activity here deals with the remnants of some of these more dysfunctional Appalachian clans.

However, it's one thing to drink, fight and commit petty property crimes, and another to rape and kill young girls. There's no question that the extended Welch clan in Hyattsville is pretty messed up, but other than perhaps LLW himself, who is considered a black sheep in the family, I'm not sure RAW or any of the others has demonstrated yet that they are likely murderers (with the qualifier that we don't know yet all of the evidence that the Grand Jury is looking at or the results of the current forensic investigations).

While there is definitely a cultural difference (many cultural differences) between Appalachian families and the families that already lived in the DC Metropolitan area, I really don't think the police responded more often to calls to those families. I always thought the divide was more a matter of not being open to letting authority, such as a church or government institution, dictate one's life. Some of this may be left over from the days of prohibition, stills, and moonshine. In reality, there was just as much white collar crime (anyone remember Watergate?) in the area at the time; the Appalachian families were simply outsiders and got targeted for prosecution more often.

I personally think LLW is a different story, though. I think he just wanted to take advantage of others and enjoyed asserting his psychopathic personality. The psychology is a little bit different, in his case.

 

[siriunsun]

Am I the only one who finds it unusual that LLW expects law enforcement to believe him when he attempts to implicate a younger cousin, who was only ten or eleven at the time?

 

[zach1900]

Am I the only one who finds it unusual that LLW expects law enforcement to believe him when he attempts to implicate a younger cousin, who was only ten or eleven at the time?

Yes, I found that very odd too.

 

[Motherof5]

Am I the only one who finds it unusual that LLW expects law enforcement to believe him when he attempts to implicate a younger cousin, who was only ten or eleven at the time?

It cracks me up that LLW expects LE or anyone else to believe that he, the locked up RSO, walked in on the assault of a child and he just turns around and leaves. Riiiiiight. I honestly feel that LLW and RAW did this. Thomas Welch was only 10. I can see the other two using their 10 yr old family member to help lure the girls and Thomas wouldn't even understand what was happening. He wasn't old enough to be responsible for the actions of LLW and RAW. JMO



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[steveP120]

Am I the only one who finds it unusual that LLW expects law enforcement to believe him when he attempts to implicate a younger cousin, who was only ten or eleven at the time?

Thomas, the younger cousin, may have implicated himself, when prior to being publicly named (which happen just five days ago) and prior to Richard being named as the second person of interst, phoned, talked for 38 minutes with his Uncle Richard and met with Richard and Richard's wife ON THE DAY THAT LLOYD WAS NAMED AS A PERSON OF INTEREST. This is described on the top of page two of the search warrant attachment:

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wset/SKMBT_60115022314160.pdf

The phone conversation is only described as "lengthy" on the search warrant, but in other news reports it was reported as 38 minutes or thereabout.

There could be an innocent explanation, such as worrying over the family name, but there is also the explanation that they were trying to get their stories straight, or deciding to come clean with some minor involvement.

But obviously, when Richard because a person of interest (we still don't know how or why), the police looked at his past phone calls and discovered his call and meeting with Thomas. I would speculate that after figuring out Thomas called Richard, they got both their phone's locations, and surprise, they met the day Lloyd was named as a person of interest and the public asked for information on Lloyd.

Of course one would expect the police to ask Thomas, Richard and his wife what they were talking about. The police did and summarized the reports as "conflicting" as described in the search warrant, but in my opinion, innocent summaries of conversations often naturally conflict.

Obviously at age 10 or 11, Thomas could not be more than a pawn or a bit player or witness in 1975.

If Lloyd mentioned Thomas and/or Richard prior to the phone call, Thomas's actions might actually slightly confirm Richard's story.
But it's just as likely, Thomas first came into the investigation with his own phone call. The police could then go to Lloyd and ask, "How is Thomas involved?" Of course any answer from Lloyd is unreliable.

I am not really surprised by one pervert walking past another pervert and not calling the police, especially if they are relatives. I am somewhat surprised that someome stuck in jail for decades (Lloyd) would not try to trade any information on a murder he was not involved in. Lloyd may be stupid, but over the years, it would occur to him, I could get parole if I help solve a double murder.

 

[gregjrichards]

If the telephone conversations have been recorded is that admissible as evidence at the trial of Patricia Welch and any subsequent trials? If anyone knows if you could answer that would be great. Thank you.

 

[dotr]

If the telephone conversations have been recorded is that admissible as evidence at the trial of Patricia Welch and any subsequent trials? If anyone knows if you could answer that would be great. Thank you.

http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/criminal-law/surreptitious_tape.htm

"The federal courts and every state have rules of evidence regarding what types of evidence are admissible and the authentication required for admitting that evidence. The requirements for a recorded conversation are no different. As a general rule, evidence obtained illegally cannot be used in court, and surreptitious tape recordings by telephone are illegal in most states under their respective penal (or criminal) codes. You must have permission from the party being recorded or, at the very least, give the other person notice that the call is being recorded.

The twelve states listed below require, under most circumstances, the consent of all parties to the conversation before taping is allowed. If the court determines that the statement was obtained in violation of state law, it will not qualify as generally admissible evidence.

California, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington"

 

[WaynezWorld]

These are some theories and possibilities I have-


***Theories About the Abductions***

THEORY 1) The recent claims from LLW are a 100% lie intended to shame and frame RAW. LLW has no involvement whatsoever and just happened to be at the mall. LLW is benefiting from some attention from LE similar to the Henry Lee Lucas fiasco and possibly getting some prison perks (I find this the least likely based on RAW behavior recently)

THEORY 2) LLW is solely responsible for the abduction/deaths. LLW took the girls in a possibly stolen car and disposed of the bodies somewhere, possibly Taylor Mountain.

THEORY 3) LLW and RAW abducted the girls together. TW was possibly just a unwilling ride along or a witness, or was possibly used as a pawn to lure the girls to gain confidence with a peer their age.

***Why Did LLW Contact Police on 4/1/1975?***

THEORY 1) LLW knew NOTHING of the actual kidnappings but thought he could finagle some reward money with a flimsy tale of seeing the girls leave the mall.

THEORY 2) LLW (with or without RAW )had involvement in the abduction and thought this subterfuge would be a way to divert attention from himself. LLW thought by approaching police with a weak story would make him appear as a "good guy" and eliminate the questions of why he was at Wheaton Plaza the day of the disappearance.

THEORY 3) LLW (with or without RAW ) had involvement in the abduction and thought he could parlay his knowledge into some of the reward money.

THEORY 4) LLW considered framing RAW for abductions/killings of the Lyons sisters that LLW committed to get either a reward or revenge. LLW realized that this was a complicated and risky plot that may implicate himself and abandoned it after the failed polygraph test.


***Why Did LLW Fail the 1975 Polygraph Test?***

THEORY 1) Because LLW has no knowledge of the abduction at all. He was seeking either attention or reward money. The polygraph recognized deception.

THEORY 2) LLW was involved in the abduction and nonetheless gave false statements which the polygraph recognized as deceptive. By doing so, LLW intentionally or unintentionally eliminated himself as a suspect.



***How Did the Police Miss the Physical Similarity in Welch to the 1975 Sketch***

THEORY 1) Bad investigative work. Plain and simple.

THEORY 2) LLW eliminated himself as a suspect by contacting the police on 4/1/1975

THEORY 3) LLW had the long hair and mustache on the day of the abduction, but cut his hair and shaved between the abduction and his meeting with police on 4/1/1975

THEORY 4) LLW did not have long hair and a mustache until around the time in 1977 when his mugshot was taken.

THEORY 5) The person in the sketch is not involved and is just a coincidental passerby.



***Other Questions***

1) Does LLW have incriminating knowledge about RAW in regard to other crimes?

2) Could RAW have committed another murder and buried the body on Taylor Mountain?

3) Did LLW know about a "good burial spot" on Taylor Mountain in 1975 and take the Lyons sisters bodies there without RAW's knowledge, thus bringing RAW into LLW's crime?


NOTE-Sorry this is a little long, but I thought I would write this and get it out of my head, see if anyone shared these theories. Some are a little far fetched, some boring, but I think all are worth considering in the pursuit of the truth.

 

[cgoodwin22]

From Angela Hatchers facebook page:

BREAKING: Police want information about a vehicle believed to have been involved in 1975 &#8234;#&#8206;LyonSisters&#8236; disappearance:
large, white, 4-door, possibly a Chrysler New Yorker, early 70's model
Capt. Darren Francke tells me it was possibly in Bedford Co. area