Shootin' From the Lip--Part 3

[DeeDee249]

I like that in a person. I, however, can get mean even when I don't have to. Just because I can. (but I rarely do).

 

[DeeDee249]

I did not even consider her coming into contact with a bunch of other little kids who would never have been tested (who would even think to do that?) and subsequently having their DNA transfer to her. Didn't even occur to me.

There were also kids at the R house that day, BR's friends, according to Patsy. In one of her interviews she stated that kids were in and out all day Christmas Day.
I do not know whether any of the kids who were at the party were tested- only the males needed to be, I suppose, to try to get a match to the rogue TDNA. Keep in mind that police can only request, not demand, samples. A warrant is needed to demand them, and the DA refused to order any warrants. NO one is compelled to give DNA/saliva/blood/hair samples, even a suspect in custody. I highly doubt any of the parents of those kids would agree to have the kids tested. Now those kids are adults. NONE are suspects in JB's murder. None of them have to talk to police (even a supposed "witness" like BRm who was IN THE HOUSE at the time of her death, can be compelled to talk to police. And he has refused (via his lawyer, the ever-vigilant LW).
While it is impossible for any of those boys to have touched the NEW panties or her longjohns as these items were at the R home and not at the White's, transfer of their skin cells to any of the Rs could have happened. There is also some suspicion over the years that there might have been a friend of BR's at the R house that night- a friend he might have invited along to the trip to Charlevoix. This is unproven, though, and no other evidence linking this person to the crime was found.

 

[cherisa]

I feel what you're saying, but have to remind myself that the "believer" IMO...may be just that and who am I to talk them out of "lala land", where parents (especially well connected wealthy parents) don't ever harm their children. If that's where they want to be, let them stay there.

I've been following this case since I first read an article in 1997 Vanity Fair. I believe there's a thread back in the archives here somewhere with a link to it. Eye opening. And some people (IDI) were offended by the article because an LE leaked the info that created it.

Some people will NEVER be satisfied by any amount of evidence.

Do you have the link to the vanity fair article I wouldn't even know where to star looking for it :loveyou:

 

[i.b.nora]

http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/09161997vanityfair.htm

http://www.bardachreports.com/articles/v_19971000.html

 

[MeanDonnaJean]

There are five unsolved murders in Colorado of little girls between ages 4-9. They are:

Melissa Bennett: 1984: Killed during home invasion along with her mother and father
Cherelle Morehouse: 1984: Killed during arson along with her sister
Tracy Neef: 1983: Abducted and murdered after her mother dropped her off at school
Sarah Skiba: 1999: She went missing along with her father and his employee.

Good to know, and many thanx for that info. I was, however, thinkin' more on the lines of in and around the Boulder area itself and those which occurred in a similar manner to and after JBR's.

 

[MeanDonnaJean]

Hi, MeanDonnaJean! (I like that name!) It's considered polite to introduce oneself, but it's not necessary.

Thanx SD, and a big hello to you as well. The MDJ thing is a lil' nickname my late husband gave me way back in the day and it just kinda stuck all these years. And secondly, I do apologize for the non-introduction and hope y'all will forgive me. I reckon my manners flew completely out the window with that one.

As to the question, the book's not available yet. I'm due to speak to the publisher's layout manager any time now.

Oh okay, but ya WILL keep us posted, correct?

 

[MeanDonnaJean]

I like that in a person. I, however, can get mean even when I don't have to. Just because I can. (but I rarely do).

And *I* like THAT in a person!

I do believe we've already found a commonality, DeeDee...besides the "D" in the name thing, that is.

I think I'm gonna like it here.

 

[wengr]

Keep in mind that police can only request, not demand, samples. A warrant is needed to demand them, and the DA refused to order any warrants.

I find this curious. It's not like dna collection is very invasive or inconvenient, and to rule out possible sources is crucial to finding the truth, be it IDI or RDI.

 

[MeanDonnaJean]

I did not even consider her coming into contact with a bunch of other little kids who would never have been tested (who would even think to do that?) and subsequently having their DNA transfer to her. Didn't even occur to me.

Yep, contrary to my boss's and my kids' beliefs, sometimes my brain actually WORX (altho as of late, most times its more "miss" than "hit").

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Good to know, and many thanx for that info. I was, however, thinkin' more on the lines of in and around the Boulder area itself and those which occurred in a similar manner to and after JBR's.

Well, there are only 5 in the entire state so I thought it wouldn't hurt to post them all, and let people come to their own conclusions about whether there could be a connection.

I have no doubt though that if there was a case that was very similar to JonBenet's, and also happened in Colorado, the R's would make sure we knew about it. For example, there's a case of a little girl named Heather Coffin whose murder was solved by Lou Smit, and this case was brought up all the time on any pro-Ramsey media pieces. I definitely think their team looked through databases of every unsolved case...or even solved cases, to find one that had some similarity to JonBenet, maybe where another little kid was killed while the parents slept.

And I'm thinking about how people always ask if crimes against children are worst nowadays...but in just one state, between 1983-1984, we had a little girl abducted and murdered who was going to school, then a case of a little girl and her parents murdered with a hammer by some deranged intruder, and then a case where two little girls were killed in a home after someone set it on fire.

 

[MissJ]

Nothing anyone does surprises me anymore. SD you're amazing and I'm looking forward to your book. I do think the fact that the R's got away with this cost a lot of children their lives. Look at all the cases we talk about here where the parent was charged or is suspected but gets away with it.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Nothing anyone does surprises me anymore. SD you're amazing and I'm looking forward to your book. I do think the fact that the R's got away with this cost a lot of children their lives. Look at all the cases we talk about here where the parent was charged or is suspected but gets away with it.

I have to disagree. The R's are not responsible in anyway for the deaths of other children, and to act like those kids would be alive today if the R's didn't kill JonBenet or if they had gone to jail is reaching.

 

[borndem]

If I see the letters DNA again, I might have to run away...LOL

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/data:image/jpeg;🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬,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 .. anic: .. :worms: .. verreaction: .. :gasp: .. hwow::noooo::what::doorhide::hills:

​

 

[DeeDee249]

I have to disagree. The R's are not responsible in anyway for the deaths of other children, and to act like those kids would be alive today if the R's didn't kill JonBenet or if they had gone to jail is reaching.

I agree up to a point. There have been other cases since this one where a child is claimed to be kidnapped/missing and later found to have been killed by a parent or caregiver. Caylee Anthony is one that comes to mind, despite the acquittal of her mother. (We all know who killed her- so do her lawyers and family and so did that jury).

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I agree up to a point. There have been other cases since this one where a child is claimed to be kidnapped/missing and later found to have been killed by a parent or caregiver. Caylee Anthony is one that comes to mind, despite the acquittal of her mother. (We all know who killed her- so do her lawyers and family and so did that jury).

I just don't think that sort of thing started with the R's. Before JonBenet was killed, we had Diane Downs, Darlie Routier, and Susan Smith, all women who killed their kids and blamed it on a mysterious predator. They all made up crazy, sensational stories about how their child ended up missing or dead.

 

[borndem]

Ditto.

P.S. Lemme know if I outta formally introduce myself before jumpin' in on this here bandwagon.

HiYa, MeanDonnaJean -- No qualifications or introductions are necessary -- just jump right in here with the rest of us. We're always glad to have new members, so

Welcome
:cheers:
to
:websleuther: Websleuths,:websleuther:

:drumroll:MeanDonnaJean !!!:drumroll:


:rollercoaster:

We're glad you're here!!
​

 

[borndem]

I feel what you're saying, but have to remind myself that the "believer" IMO...may be just that and who am I to talk them out of "lala land", where parents (especially well connected wealthy parents) don't ever harm their children. If that's where they want to be, let them stay there.

I've been following this case since I first read an article in 1997 Vanity Fair. I believe there's a thread back in the archives here somewhere with a link to it. Eye opening. And some people (IDI) were offended by the article because an LE leaked the info that created it.

Some people will NEVER be satisfied by any amount of evidence.

CherCher -- Here's the link to the VF article. WS member Whaleshark (thank you, Whaleshark!) found it for us. Thanks for reminding me -- I remember buying that issue just for the JBR article!

Missing Innocence: The JonBenet Ramsey Case
http://www.bardachreports.com/articles/v_19971000.html

 

[borndem]

I just don't think that sort of thing started with the R's. Before JonBenet was killed, we had Diane Downs, Darlie Routier, and Susan Smith, all women who killed their kids and blamed it on a mysterious predator. They all made up crazy, sensational stories about how their child ended up missing or dead.

You said it, 'hawkeye! And when these stories were spun, LE and a good number of "civilians" knew there was hink all over the stories and the tellers of them.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time," and so forth!

 

[MeanDonnaJean]

HiYa, MeanDonnaJean -- No qualifications or introductions are necessary -- just jump right in here with the rest of us. We're always glad to have new members, so

Welcome
:cheers:
to
:websleuther: Websleuths,:websleuther:

:drumroll:MeanDonnaJean !!!:drumroll:

:rollercoaster:

We're glad you're here!!
​

Well I must admit that is the BEST darn welcoming I've EVER gotten ANYWHERE....whether in real-time OR in cyber-space. It damn near got me all choked up 'n teary-eyed. So hats off to YOU, borndem. Ya really know how to make a person feel rite at home.

Ya know, earlier I commented somewhere that I "think" I'm gonna like it here.

I KNOW I'm gonna like it here

 

[CathyR]

Does anyone have any opinions about the recent release of the Grand Jury findings?

It seems they wanted to indict the R'S but couldn't agree that they were solo on the crime. It seems from what was released that they thought a 3rd party in home that assisted in the murder.