Shootin' From the Lip--Part 3

[tezi]

Does anyone have any opinions about the recent release of the Grand Jury findings?

It seems they wanted to indict the R'S but couldn't agree that they were solo on the crime. It seems from what was released that they thought a 3rd party in home that assisted in the murder.

My opinion is that the GJ suspected Burke killed JB, and both the adult Ramseys covered for him, not that there was a third party in the home.

JMO

We have a thread somewhere discussing the GJ. I will see if I can find it and link it for you.

ETA: Here is the link: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225116"]Grand Jury True Bills John & Patsy Discussion thread - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Darlene733510]

I find it odd that the GJ was on duty for over a year, yet the day after BR testified they reached their verdict. Does anyone think it strange that JR and PR were not called to testify before the GJ?

 

[Venom]

I found that odd too. Wouldn't all people that were in the house at the time be called to testify?

 

[gramcracker]

two things I noticed in the VF article:

Hunter's spokesperson says that under Colorado law any citizen can challenge the decision of the D.A. in a particular case by filing with a court a motion to compel prosecution.

is that true? and no one ever filed a motion to compel?

In late July, Hunter agreed to go with Hofstrom to F.B.I. headquarters in Quantico, Virginia, to meet with the Child Abduction and Serial Killer Unit in early September. For months, says a source, the police had implored Hofstrom to listen to the conclusions of the F.B.I. "They're going to take DeMuth, Hofstrom, and Smit out of their little kingdom to Quantico, and let those guys beat them over the head for two days and say, 'Look, this is how you prosecute this case.' "

did that Quantico meeting take place? I don't recall reading about it

 

[bettybaby00]

Does anyone have any opinions about the recent release of the Grand Jury findings?

It seems they wanted to indict the R'S but couldn't agree that they were solo on the crime. It seems from what was released that they thought a 3rd party in home that assisted in the murder.

What I find compelling is that they voted to indict at all.....why? B/c a GJ is convened by the prosecutor, Alex hunter in this case, and therefore much of what it sees is driven by the prosecutor. Prosecutors convene a GJ b/c they WANT to indict someone..so what happens during a GJ "investigation" when that isn't the prosecutor's intent? Couple this with the outcome where AH stated "there was no indictment," and you've gotta scratch your head. Quite a bit has been discussed recently about his exact wording, and whether he lied, but regardless of which words were exactly used, his intended message was meant to give the impression that no indictment was being filed b/c the Rs weren't guilty of anything. At the time, EVERY talking head drew this conclusion, and now, nearly 20 years later, people want to say he wasn't a liar b/c clearly he meant "no indictment filed b/c we'll never win in court based on the evidence on hand."

Kinda reminds me of "when we said you can keep your healthcare if you like it, period, I really was saying you could keep it if it meets the standards of the affordable care act."



Additionally, I also always found it very eyebrow raising that after BRs testimony they voted to indict...could be coincidence, but what an interesting one, ehh?

 

[txsvicki]

I just don't think that sort of thing started with the R's. Before JonBenet was killed, we had Diane Downs, Darlie Routier, and Susan Smith, all women who killed their kids and blamed it on a mysterious predator. They all made up crazy, sensational stories about how their child ended up missing or dead.

Speaking of Susan Smith, it was interesting how Kolar mentioned in his book how Patsy compared her daughter's murder to Susan Smith and OJ. Possibly a telling utterance while heavily medicated.

 

[questfortrue]

two things I noticed in the VF article:



is that true? and no one ever filed a motion to compel?



did that Quantico meeting take place? I don't recall reading about it

That particular notation about a notice to compel prosecution is interesting, but who would take that on, especially in that environment when so much was being swept away by the DAs office? moo. Speaking of information being swept away, the Quantico episode is mentioned in Kolar's book. Apparently AH decided at the last minute not to attend and sent the senior members of his command staff, including LS. The FBI tried to convince the DA's command staff to take a harder look at the parents. This was of no avail. According to Kolar's words: "Boulder prosecutors reportedly were adamant in their denial that either JR or PR could have been involved in the murder of their daughter."
.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Speaking of Susan Smith, it was interesting how Kolar mentioned in his book how Patsy compared her daughter's murder to Susan Smith and OJ. Possibly a telling utterance while heavily medicated.

It is interesting. If she wanted to compare JonBenet's case to recent high-profile ones, why not bring up Polly Klaas or Megan Kanka....two little girls killed by predators?

 

[redheadedgal]

Hey Dave:

Just pointing out a little tidbit of a common denominator between the Steinfurth baby and JBR---and it's this: there was a heart drawn on JBR's hand and there was a heart drawn on the box they found baby Steinfurth in.

Strange and sad. If I had to guess, this points to the *mothers*.

moo

fwiw, ST told me he doesn't believe the heart had anything to do with what happened to jonbenet that night...

 

[redheadedgal]

did that Quantico meeting take place? I don't recall reading about it

hofstrom attended, hunter did not

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/09/09-1.html

 

[Tawny]

Well I must admit that is the BEST darn welcoming I've EVER gotten ANYWHERE....whether in real-time OR in cyber-space. It damn near got me all choked up 'n teary-eyed. So hats off to YOU, borndem. Ya really know how to make a person feel rite at home.

Ya know, earlier I commented somewhere that I "think" I'm gonna like it here.

I KNOW I'm gonna like it here

MINE WAS SIMPLE AND SWEET AND MOST IMPORTANTLY FIIIIIIRST :scared::scared::scared:

:seeya:

 

[DeeDee249]

fwiw, ST told me he doesn't believe the heart had anything to do with what happened to jonbenet that night...

That has always been my thought, too. JB and the White's daughter were playing that day at the party- there were also kids at the R house playing earlier in the day. The heart could have also been drawn the day before or even on the day of the R's own party on the 23rd. JB hadn't had a bath in a few days, according to Patsy, so if the heart had been drawn a few days prior to her death, it would still be there, as Patsy also said JB didn't like to wash her hands.
I cannot imagine a mother not giving a child a daily bath or shower if that child wet or soiled her pants every day. Kids are lax about handwashing, true, and some don't like to take a bath. But that's what PARENTS are for- to see that kids learn to do the things they don't necessarily want to do.

 

[tezi]

hofstrom attended, hunter did not

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/09/09-1.html

Yes, Hunter was upset about the Vanity Fair article, which did not paint him or his office in a positive light.

I remember reading how immature Trip DeMuth acted during the briefing with the FBI. And Lou Smit leaving early to bring back the someone from TN. Really professional, those three...

JMO

 

[borndem]

That has always been my thought, too. JB and the White's daughter were playing that day at the party- there were also kids at the R house playing earlier in the day. The heart could have also been drawn the day before or even on the day of the R's own party on the 23rd. JB hadn't had a bath in a few days, according to Patsy, so if the heart had been drawn a few days prior to her death, it would still be there, as Patsy also said JB didn't like to wash her hands.
I cannot imagine a mother not giving a child a daily bath or shower if that child wet or soiled her pants every day. Kids are lax about handwashing, true, and some don't like to take a bath. But that's what PARENTS are for- to see that kids learn to do the things they don't necessarily want to do.

bbm

Umm, yeah, DeeDee -- that's how it was in our house. What 6 y/o likes to take a bath? Further, a 6 y/o should be perfectly able to do it herself. She may come out of the tub with dirty feet, but still.... Plus, I remember not wanting to bathe, but I was told to do so, so I did. Then once I got into the tub, and made "big" waves and ran more water, I didn't want to get out...Anybody remember times like that? PR should have just told her to go take a bath & if she didn't come out clean, PR would just take her back & do it again. That should have cured the problem. No wonder she had vaginitis more than once. Yuck.

And your point about the heart is good. No tellin' when or from whom she got it.

This whole thing is so effed up...

 

[Venom]

Has FW's daughter, or any of the other kids that were at the Christmas dinner said anything about how JB was that day, if the heart was drawn at the W's house?

 

[DeeDee249]

Has FW's daughter, or any of the other kids that were at the Christmas dinner said anything about how JB was that day, if the heart was drawn at the W's house?

The silence from the other party guests has been deafening.

 

[gramcracker]

That particular notation about a notice to compel prosecution is interesting, but who would take that on, especially in that environment when so much was being swept away by the DAs office? moo.

FW? but he didn't, so obviously not. but that's who I thought of

 

[MissJ]

I have to disagree. The R's are not responsible in anyway for the deaths of other children, and to act like those kids would be alive today if the R's didn't kill JonBenet or if they had gone to jail is reaching.

We'll agree to disagree. I do think it goes through potential child murdering parent's minds whether they could get away with it and they tote up the list of those who DO get away with it before considering other options like giving up their children. But thats just my opinion.:moo:

 

[tezi]

We'll agree to disagree. I do think it goes through potential child murdering parent's minds whether they could get away with it and they tote up the list of those who DO get away with it before considering other options like giving up their children. But thats just my opinion.:moo:

I so agree with you MissJ. The Ramseys "wrote" the book so to say on how to kill your child and get away with it.

JMO

 

[Darlene733510]

I keep hoping that this case could be re-tried, but I have to wonder if AH destroyed, or took pertinent evidence with him when he retired? I think the Cold Case Team should go back and check into what remaining evidence is still there. They need to find out how many items had DNA or TDNA - like the rope, the big spoon, etc. Some testing may have been done that AH decided to ignore. Wasn't it AH who decided what evidence the GJ should be aware of, and what people they should question?
I would think that SG would surely want to know - it would be a big feather in his hat to solve this case.