SIDEBAR #56 - Travis Alexander forum

[daisymae]

I'm still growing tomatoes down here!

 

[Spellbound]

1972 - Summer Breeze - Seals & Crofts top the charts for today. I'm hoping I can get an internet connection at the hospital on my tablet. Surgery started at 10, and my nephew wants to go be her parents. When he had his heart surgery and stroke they came and sat with us all night. They're up in their seventies, and don't need to be there alone. Prayers and jingle for us today, and I'll be praying and sending jingles for all my imaginary friends too.

Spell, no pecan or pumpkin pie?


]

BBM:
Don't even go there .... pecan is my favorite(but I can't have the nuts right now), and I love pumpkin for the holidays but I am the only one who eats it. That dream pie sure looks good!

Sending jingles for all who need them at this time.

Hi there, dog.gone.cute! I miss you!!

Enjoy your vacation, atthelake!

Y/N, I feel like I need to send you a donation toward the book. Thanks for all your posts on it. Will chocolate do?
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...d=0ahUKEwiv0aHcpKzJAhUCNT4KHcwlBkwQMwgvKAwwDA

 

[YESorNO]

Thanks YoNo for posting these segments and your impression of what Nurmi has written. I read all the texts that have been posted on the BK site, and I never read anything that would support an accusation that Travis was a pedophile. That is where I think Nurmi went too far. I truly believe he suborned? false testimony. I never saw nor heard anything during trial either that would support that claim.

I agree that they were both addicted to each other with the common theme being sex. Once Travis knew his friends did not approve of Heinous, he did become secretive and went "underground" as he calls it. Yes, Travis was living a double life in a sense, however he did not deserve to be brutally murdered for it. IMO

You have opened a can of worms for me Zuri. :scared:

I had previously thought that Lawrence couldn't withdraw from being the murderer's lawyer (after I had read something- can't remember what) unless the murderer asked him to do something criminally related, but I visited the actual State Bar of AZ's website today and found out I was wrong. :sheesh:

"Rules of Professional Conduct

1. Client-Lawyer Relationship

ER 1.16. Declining or Terminating Representation

"a) Except as stated in paragraph (c), a lawyer shall not represent a client or, where representation has commenced, shall withdraw from the representation of a client if:

(1) the representation will result in violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct or other law;
(2) the lawyer's physical or mental condition materially impairs the lawyer's ability to represent the client; or
(3) the lawyer is discharged.

(b) Except as stated in paragraph (c), a lawyer may withdraw from representing a client if:

(1) withdrawal can be accomplished without material adverse effect on the interests of the client;
(2) the client persists in a course of action involving the lawyer's services that the lawyer reasonably believes is criminal or fraudulent;
(3) the client has used the lawyer's services to perpetrate a crime or fraud;
(4) the client insists upon taking action that the lawyer considers repugnant or with which the lawyer has a fundamental disagreement;
(5) the client fails substantially to fulfill an obligation to the lawyer regarding the lawyer's services and has been given reasonable warning that the lawyer will withdraw unless the obligation is fulfilled;
(6) the representation will result in an unreasonable financial burden on the lawyer or has been rendered unreasonably difficult by the client; or
(7) other good cause for withdrawal exists.

(c) A lawyer shall comply with applicable law requiring notice to or permission of a tribunal when terminating a representation. When ordered to do so by a tribunal, a lawyer shall continue representation notwithstanding good cause for terminating the representation....

Comment

...Mandatory Withdrawal

[2] A lawyer ordinarily must decline or withdraw from representation if the client demands that the lawyer engage in conduct that is illegal or violates the Rules of Professional Conduct or other law. The lawyer is not obliged to decline or withdraw simply because the client suggests such a course of conduct a client may make such a suggestion in the hope that a lawyer will not be constrained by a professional obligation..."

http://www.azbar.org/Ethics/RulesofProfessionalConduct/ViewRule?id=35

BBM This changes what I had previously thought- that Lawrence had to represent the murderer even if he felt that she was lying about Travis being a pedophile because that's the story his client wanted told and what she was saying was not "criminal"

So far, in his book, he seemed to agree that Travis could be a pedophile when he heard the "sex " phone call in the beginning of his getting the case. But now I don't understand how he continued this view of Travis and brought this info to trial if he had no actual evidence (except the tape , IIRC, and that conversation, IMO, is a matter of interpretation of what Travis said- comparing the murderer's orgasm to a 12-year-old girl's first orgasm).

I also thought that a defendant's testimony was "evidence", hence the murderer testified that she saw Travis with pics of young boys/children and he had to take her word for that testimony?? (I remember I read that somewhere??)

And this:

"Third, if the criminal trial has begun and the defense attorney discovers that the client intends to testify falsely at the trial, the attorney may seek to withdraw but is not required to do so. The defense attorney should not withdraw if he or she reasonably believes that the client will be prejudiced. If the criminal defense attorney is unable to get permission to withdraw, he or she may not prevent the client from testifying in his or her own defense. See Mass. R. Prof. C. 3.3(e). The client has a constitutional right to effective assistance of counsel, due process of law, and a fair trial, including his right to testify in his own defense. Commonwealth v. Mitchell, supra at 544."

But there's this too:

"The attorney may not examine the client or elicit any testimony from the client that he or she “knows” to be false. The attorney is permitted to object to the prosecutor’s cross-examination as appropriate, mindful not to assist the client in presenting false testimony. The attorney must not argue the false testimony in the closing argument or in any other proceeding, including appeals. Mass. R. Prof. C. 3.3(e). ..

Fourth, if during the client’s testimony, or after the client’s testimony, the attorney “knows” that the client testified falsely, the attorney must confidentially call upon the client to correct the testimony. If the client refuses to follow the attorney’s advice, or is unable to do so, the attorney shall not reveal the false testimony to the court. Mass. R. Prof. C. 3.3(e) and Comment 10 to Rule 3.3(e)..."

http://www.mass.gov/obcbbo/false.htm

"A. The “Full Advocacy Approach”

The “full advocacy approach,” is promoted primarily by Professor Munroe Freedman. Under this approach, a lawyer, to protect client confidences, may knowingly present perjured testimony, if the lawyer cannot dissuade his client from committing perjury.4 Freedman rejects the idea of withdrawing in the midst of trial because this is tantamount to blowing the whistle on the client. The full advocacy approach comes down on the side of confidentiality. Ergo, the only reason that the lawyer believes that the client is going to lie as because of a confidential attorney-client communication. It also recognizes the loss of trust and the corresponding impact of the disclosure on the attorney-client relationship. Instead of vigorous advocacy, the client perceives that their lawyer has switched sides and is playing for the prosecution...

B. The Narrative Approach

The Defendant takes the stand and delivers his statement in narrative form. The defense attorney does not elicit the perjurious testimony by questioning and cannot argue the false testimony in closing argument. Under this procedure the defendant is afforded both his right to speak to the jury under oath and his constitutional right to assistance of counsel. In addition, the defense attorney did not elicit false testimony....

C. The “Knowledge” Based Approach

8] The prohibition against offering false evidence only applies if the lawyer knows that the evidence is false. A lawyer’s reasonable belief that evidence is false does not preclude its presentation to the trier of fact. A lawyer’s knowledge that evidence is false, however, can be inferred from the circumstances. See Rule 1.0(f). Thus, although a lawyer should resolve doubts about the veracity of testimony or other evidence in favor of the client, the lawyer cannot ignore an obvious falsehood.

[9] Because of the special protections historically provided criminal defendants, however, this rule does not permit a lawyer to refuse to offer the testimony of such a client where the lawyer reasonably believes, but does not know that the testimony will be false.

****The key to this approach is knowledge. Pursuant to this approach, how does the lawyer “know” what is the truth and what is the lie?...

***If the lawyer reasonably believes the client has committed perjury, the analysis seems to fall under R.P.C. 1.6(c). This perjury does not constitute a future crime pursuant to R.P.C. 1.6(b)(1) because the conduct has already occurred. In addition, it does not involve fraud which will result in substantial injury to the financial interests or property of another. As such, the lawyer must analyze the facts of their individual case and determine whether disclosure is necessary to prevent reasonably certain death or substantial bodily harm..."

https://www.isba.org/sections/trafficlaw/newsletter/2012/03/youthinkyourclientisgoingtolieonthe

(the bolded, underlined sentences- what I had read previously about the ability of Lawrence to withdraw about unproven evidence/lies from his client in her testimony)
----

All so very confusing to me. :sheesh:

I'm hoping that Lawrence will shed some light on why he kept the pedophile story in the trial further on in the book. In my mind now, if he doesn't clear this up in his book, I think that Lawrence was very wrong to drag Travis' reputation thru the mud without solid, concrete evidence. Guess I'll see when I'm further along in the book (or maybe I might have to wait for book 2/3?) :sheesh:

Too much to think about right now :scared: - I'm gonna take a nap now- my mind is tired from all this. :facepalm:

 

[YESorNO]

BBM:
Don't even go there .... pecan is my favorite(but I can't have the nuts right now), and I love pumpkin for the holidays but I am the only one who eats it. That dream pie sure looks good!

Sending jingles for all who need them at this time.

Hi there, dog.gone.cute! I miss you!!

Enjoy your vacation, atthelake!

Y/N, I feel like I need to send you a donation toward the book. Thanks for all your posts on it. Will chocolate do?
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...d=0ahUKEwiv0aHcpKzJAhUCNT4KHcwlBkwQMwgvKAwwDA

Chocolate is always appreciate Spelly (you know that).

That's such a pretty chocolate turkey- don't know if I could eat it. :facepalm:

Thank you very much. :blowkiss:

 

[GigiG]

Have you tried to make a Chocolate Dream Pie? I make it for the holidays- it's so easy to make and it's delish. (we put Lite Cool Whip on top :facepalm: )

Link: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TOxPtwTEXiM/TWCWzpJjv9I/AAAAAAAAFqM/GzPq1A1Mz8w/s1600/Photo1388.jpg

Link: http://recipecurio.com/recipe-copies/collection2/dreampie.jpg

Link: http://images.sweetauthoring.com/recipe/121862_977.jpg

Again, this is just me with a weird attention to detail. Looking at that very dated recipe, it actually calls for something called, "DREAM WHIP Whipped Toppping Mix. LOL

At any rate, I don't touch that kind of stuff. Only real whipped cream for me...

 

[coffeejunkie]

The Thing That Irrationally Terrifies You, According To Your Zodiac Sign

"...A phobia is an irrational fear, a kind of anxiety disorder in which the phobic person has an ongoing sense of dread regarding a situation, a living creature, place, or thing.

When you have a phobia, you’ll do almost anything to avoid it, and when confronted with it you’ll find yourself in total panic mode.

So, what phobias go with your zodiac sign?..."

http://news.yahoo.com/the-thing-that-irrationally-terrifies-1304344556757046.html

This is mine :dunno:

Leo (July 23 - August 22): Zelophobia, the fear of jealousy.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Virgo (August 23 - September 22): Ataxophobia, the fear of messes (untidiness and disorder). I don't think so...:hilarious:

 

[coffeejunkie]

FuNkY
View attachment 84861
Can you guess what this is?

It's a turnip on steroids :giggle:

 

[coffeejunkie]

 

[MsJosie]

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!:thanksgiving:

 

[Niner]

Hey all! :wave:

Finished all my errands today... whew!

And here I've been going to the wrong Scott Peterson thread... :gaah: I've been reading the one in the Parking Lot - did not know there was another one re appeal. Here I've been posting on the wrong one with all his appeal notices... cguru:

But :tyou: YESorNO for the other thread!!

Yes, I too followed WAT on this case! He was good!

On the phobias; me:
"Virgo (August 23 - September 22): Ataxophobia, the fear of messes (untidiness and disorder)."

True!

Oh I LOVE :luv: the chocolate turkey Spellbound!!

Boy you have a sharp eye GigiG! :lol: didn't even notice and...

"At any rate, I don't touch that kind of stuff. Only real whipped cream for me... "

Ditto here - only REAL whip cream for me too!

Okay - off to watch a movie with the Huz!

:seeya:

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Again, this is just me with a weird attention to detail. Looking at that very dated recipe, it actually calls for something called, "DREAM WHIP Whipped Toppping Mix. LOL

At any rate, I don't touch that kind of stuff. Only real whipped cream for me...

They still make Dream Whip mix, but I love old ads...and videos. This is so political incorrect.


[video=youtu;afEEulP37sw]http://youtu.be/afEEulP37sw[/video]

 

[LinasK]

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/...rfectly-troll-Black-6657214.php#photo-9018759
[h=1]Man's fake Target sale ads perfectly troll Black Friday customers[/h] By Alyssa Pereira
[h=5]Published 12:14 pm, Wednesday, November 25, 2015[/h]Black Friday and the days surrounding Thanksgiving have gradually become the biggest shopping days of the year, with big box stores competing with each other to sell products at crazy low prices before the holiday season. Over more recent years, the sales event has been under scrutiny for averting the focus of the holiday away from family bonding time, and instead towards buying things.

Apparently, Jeff Wysaski just about had it with that. The photoshop extraordinaire and proprietor of humor site Pleated Jeans pranked his local Target store with a bunch of ads created to look just like their own catalog pages, but casually offering fire sales on completely ridiculous and fake items. more at link: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/...rfectly-troll-Black-6657214.php#photo-9018759

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

November 25 2348 BC - Biblical scholars have long asserted this to be the day of the Great Deluge, or Flood. We might need a ark this weekend. They say we could get up to eight inches in places.


[video=youtu;ZjmGWG7nL6M]http://youtu.be/ZjmGWG7nL6M[/video]

 

[GigiG]

Wishing everyone a very happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Wagara]

For the talk about gas prices yesterday here is a pic I took this morning! I think gas in SC is among the cheapest nationwide.

I am in charge of the dressing, gravy, broccoli casserole and blueberry cream pies. Bryan and Mandy are baking the turkey, making mac and cheese, potato salad, peas and beans, and collards. They have bought pumpkin and pecan pies. I can't wait!

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

On Nov. 25, 1963, the body of slain President John F. Kennedy was laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery.


[video=youtu;mYkMErQc0aQ]http://youtu.be/mYkMErQc0aQ[/video]

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

For the talk about gas prices yesterday here is a pic I took this morning! I think gas in SC is among the cheapest nationwide.

I am in charge of the dressing, gravy, broccoli casserole and blueberry cream pies. Bryan and Mandy are baking the turkey, making mac and cheese, potato salad, peas and beans, and collards. They have bought pumpkin and pecan pies. I can't wait!

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

Aren't the holiday cooking some of the best times? Cranberry sauce in can with the old reassuring plop onto the plate, then sliced in circles, or fresh ones?

I've only met other person that had potato salad for thanksgiving. Is that more east coast than deep south?

We're more traditional in turkey and ham, mashed potatoes, dressing and gravy, sweet potato casserole, green beans and corn, and sometimes mac and cheese. Then we have deserts! We have nine pecan trees, and have more then enough we make pies and share with neighbors. This Thanksgiving we're looking at feeding twenty two for lunch tomorrow at last count.


[video=youtu;gHZSaikgKG8]http://youtu.be/gHZSaikgKG8[/video]

 

[Wagara]

Aren't the holiday cooking some of the best times? Cranberry sauce in can with the old reassuring plop onto the plate, then sliced in circles, or fresh ones?

I've only met other person that had potato salad for thanksgiving. Is that more east coast than deep south?

We're more traditional in turkey and ham, mashed potatoes, dressing and gravy, sweet potato casserole, green beans and corn, and sometimes mac and cheese. Then we have deserts! We have nine pecan trees, and have more then enough we make pies and share with neighbors. This Thanksgiving we're looking at feeding twenty two for lunch tomorrow at last count.


[video=youtu;gHZSaikgKG8]http://youtu.be/gHZSaikgKG8[/video]

It might just be a family thing but we've never had mashed potatoes with our turkey...always potato salad. And I forgot the sweet potato casserole. I love holiday food!

 

[GigiG]

Aren't the holiday cooking some of the best times? Cranberry sauce in can with the old reassuring plop onto the plate, then sliced in circles, or fresh ones?

I've only met other person that had potato salad for thanksgiving. Is that more east coast than deep south?

We're more traditional in turkey and ham, mashed potatoes, dressing and gravy, sweet potato casserole, green beans and corn, and sometimes mac and cheese. Then we have deserts! We have nine pecan trees, and have more then enough we make pies and share with neighbors. This Thanksgiving we're looking at feeding twenty two for lunch tomorrow at last count.


[video=youtu;gHZSaikgKG8]http://youtu.be/gHZSaikgKG8[/video]

I'm East Coast born-and-raised. I've never been to a Thanksgiving gathering where they've had potato salad. That's a new one for me...

But OMG, 22 people? You must be a saint! God bless you. I know you have a lot to be thankful for and I wish you and yours a very happy holiday.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

LOL that is just our first seating at noon, and we have kids and grandkids that wander in, and might bring a friend or to.


Tomorrow is going to be kinda quite day. My nephews girlfriend had surgery today. It was to remove a malignant tumor in her colon. They removed the tumor and seven inches of colon on each side, a part of her stomach, liver and spleen, and "shaved" ( ? Oh Zuri and dhmd) some places on her pancreas, and there is spot on one of her lungs. The dr's think chemo and radiation will work.