SIDEBAR #6- Arias/Alexander forum

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  • #981
Sorry that I missed your point. As to how they could have been shocked... check out the locked thread, yesterday's posts. Lots of head scratching and less gentle responses. Still, could be that 18 speaks only of his own ignorance. I'm not going to believe what he's saying about the whole jury because he clearly speaks for the minority, if that.

AZLaywer was down in the Chat Room yesterday talking about this. She pointed out that the procedure in the event of a hung jury was not part of the jury instructions, so she thought it was entirely reasonable that the foreperson really didn't know what would happen if they were hung.
 
  • #982
thinking of grammar, how is Becky sharp doing with her w? Becky we need to hear from you today

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You rang, atthelake? I see she's not here right now. If someone bumps into her later, please tell her I got her message.

I wish I could cheer up you guys. I'm still confident about JA getting what she so richly deserves. It might not be the DP, but I'm okay with that because I'm certain JSS would then give her LWOP. Either way, whatever future she has will be miserable. And she'll also be largely forgotten. The Alexanders won't be able to forget her, for which I am genuinely sorry, but the fickle public spotlight that she so clearly craves (and possibly even needs) will move on to the next sensational trial, and then the next, and so on. Look, for example, at the various comments up-thread about Manson and his followers: although we remember them, our memory of them is not very clear because we can and do go on with our lives. Whatever "life" anyone like JA and her ilk have is largely over. In a sense, they're stuck in time, and we're not. All JA now has (whether DP or LWOP) is a "life" endured in a perpetual present. Either way, she has no future. Put differently, no matter the outcome of the next penalty phase, she won't live a life. At best, she might exist an existence. :seeya:
 
  • #983
  • #984
You missed my point. According to this juror, they were shocked that there was a mistrial, that they had no idea. So that is my question- how did that happen?

I was dumb founded when I read that, are you kidding me I said. Evidently they did not know that the decision (hung) ended it and a new jury would now be picked. The ball got dropped and it is my opine that mr. z is a big part of it. This truly needs to be addressed for future cases, my oh my we didn't know the next step was a new jury. wth Makes me wonder what they did do for those 13 hours.
 
  • #985
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Just follow that link. The instructions are there. I recommend downloading MiRC, but if you want to use Java that's fine. Try it for sure if the Java doesn't work for you.

We had a party in the chat room last night until 5 o'clock in the morning. I have a hangover. We were having a great time :what:

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  • #986
I was dumb founded when I read that, are you kidding me I said. Evidently they did not know that the decision (hung) ended it and a new jury would now be picked. The ball got dropped and it is my opine that mr. z is a big part of it. This truly needs to be addressed for future cases, my oh my we didn't know the next step was a new jury. wth Makes me wonder what they did do for those 13 hours.

Whine about the burden of being a juror, a job he took an oath and swore he was ready to do.....would be a safe bet. IMO





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  • #987
We had a party in the chat room last night until 5 o'clock in the morning. I have a hangover. We were having a great time :what:

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Yeah, we're waiting for you. :floorlaugh:
 
  • #988
It's chilly, damp, dark, and dreary in these parts - a perfect day for the jury to render a DP verdict. I'm wearing my blue lounging pajamas (had them on yesterday, too) for Travis and his family. :please: let today be the beginning of real JUSTICE FOR TRAVIS by sending Ms. Arias off to prison (hopefully death row) for the rest of her life.

This was not a high-profile case (Detroit), although it was mentioned on some of the nightly news programs for a while. This is one of the most powerful conclusions to a trial that I have ever seen. It will only take about 5 minutes of your time and is worthwhile. Some of the Judge's comments sound like she could be addressing JA.

D'Andre Lane sentenced to life in prison - YouTube

WOW. Thanks, BetteDavisEyes. This is just horrible. Love the judge! (From a fellow Detroit native) - God I love that city :)

Worth Watching. Thank you.
 
  • #989
AZLaywer was down in the Chat Room yesterday talking about this. She pointed out that the procedure in the event of a hung jury was not part of the jury instructions, so she thought it was entirely reasonable that the foreperson really didn't know what would happen if they were hung.

The job is to diligently try reach a verdict


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  • #990
Good morning folks:seeya:

Wow Mr. foreman keeps talking, huh. He says in one of his interviews that JA was a normal girl before June 4 and that she lied like anyone else would after committing a crime. Whaaaaatttt??!!!

I guess it is normal to kick a dog, hit your brother over the head with a bat, hit your mother, grow pot, travel hours to confront ex boyfriend girlfriends, hack into their email, fb, myspace, bank acounts, sleep under a christmas tree when you are not welcome, crawl under doggie doors, enter your ex boyfriends house to peep through windows, slash tires 3x, continue to insert yourself in your ex boyfriends life when the relationship is OVER, drive 3000 miles to 3 states for no reason, 1000 of those miles to slaughter a man that clearly did not want a relaionship with said murderer, and many other incidents, testimony of her shenanigans. Ok, many individual instances could be overlooked and may seem normal and/or some not introducted into evidence, but collectively, it clearly shows exactly how Dr. DeMarte explained her on the stand.

ANY and ALL evidence of any abuse only comes from the mouth of a murdering LIAR to the nth degree.

The foreman took this case and JA to a personal level. He is also criticizing Juan, and finds one instance of texting/emails to be abuse, there is something seriously wrong with this picture, it seems he also ignorned the evidence and jury instructions. This is alarming.

BBM:

You are right. This IS VERY alarming. I felt alarmed from his very first interview. He had another agenda (IMO) for getting on this jury. Can we EVER get true justice under this system? I am very concerned. I am starting to like the idea of "professional juries", as other posters have mentioned here. I have had this thought since the CA debacle. It scares me. Maybe all the publicity, televising, interviews etc. should be re-visited. I am happy for the conviction/extreme cruelty ... but feel somewhat deflated and disappointed for the family that THIS jury could not complete. That foreman causes grave concerns for me.
 
  • #991
The job is to diligently try reach a verdict


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Yes... my post wasn't about whether they did their job or not, just whether or not they might have known about what would happen if they were hung.
 
  • #992
Wow. I didn't read it that way at all. I think she just meant that he couldn't have anticipated that she would actually kill him.

was this about MY post? nobody's blaming TA!! but i said from day one i don't believe most men, if asked whether they believe a woman could overpower them and slaughter them, would believe it. i don't think men FEAR women the way women fear men. and i think that was true of TA.

i mean look at HIM and look at HER. the fury of her attack had to be just incredible because he only had a few defensive wounds. she got lucky with her first thrust of that knife and injured him so badly, he couldn't fight her off and get the upper hand.

he WAS bigger and stronger than her, and yet what happened, happened.
 
  • #993
The irony! Travis is being blamed for not getting out of the relationship, for being naive. And yet that naivete is perfectly okay in a juror who ironically is mirroring Travis' attitude that it's hard to believe that a fragile 'girl' could do such a thing. And so it must be Travis' fault. No matter which way you turn, Travis can never win, it's always his fault.

:goodpost:

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  • #994
This foreman guy would have been the first one to get kicked off during jury selection had he revealed his thoughts about how unfair it is that a jury has to decide life or death. JM would have said 'NEXT!'
 
  • #995
The irony! Travis is being blamed for not getting out of the relationship, for being naive. And yet that naivete is perfectly okay in a juror who ironically is mirroring Travis' attitude that it's hard to believe that a fragile 'girl' could do such a thing. And so it must be Travis' fault. No matter which way you turn, Travis can never win, it's always his fault.

The ultimate irony imo is that the horrific nature of the crime is apparently mitigating, at least to Mr. Foreman who wonders why such a "normal" 27 yo law abiding young woman could possibly commit such a brutal murder. He contends her "life trajectory" abruptly changed when she met TA. I'd like to know why anyone, given the particular facts in this case, could possibly think another 12 jurors would unamimously give JA the death penalty, because I'm convinced there's no chance no matter what JM does next time.
 
  • #996
I am hoping and praying some man who runs a MEN'S victim of abuse facility or group will come forward for the State.

All of ALV's man bashing and "men aren't victims of abuse" attitude....is such BS, as we've all said.

I've witnessed abuse by wives/girlfriends of several male friends. Even my current neighbor.
It's true, most men WON'T admit ANY sort of abuse. Men are often subject to being called far worse EVERY single day of their lives. Most of my male friends will NOT admit it, even though I point it out to them.

When they all get together, men call it being "pu**y whipped" and make the :whipper: noise.
They're called worthless, a lousey 🤬🤬🤬, a "pri*k", a "C" word" which I HATE, a good for nothing bum, stupid idiot, a mooch, I make more $ than you, what kind of man are you, you're NOT a man, make fun of sexual "prowess"....ya get the picture.
The defense found "🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬", "3HW", Travis didn't say "please", and we pretty much can count them on one hand, and, IMO, nowhere NEAR abusive.

I've seen dishes, vases, hammers, pictures, pots, pans, a knife whizzing by my head.

Last week, my neighbor was running down the street at 3 am, throwing a bunch of something glass at her husband calling him a effin' 🤬🤬🤬 worthless pu**y.
This past week, she threw a hammer at him, he had to duck and move away...."you want the hammer, here's your hammer!!" He was trying to put together a fence for their garden and she KNEW how to do it better than him. Sweet young guy, NEVER hear HIS voice, just her whiney voice and screaming. Never see any of his friends come over. Saw his father ONCE, her mother lives down the street, and grandmother is next door. He runs around for ALL of them...grass cut, windows, roof in the rain.

At any rate, you can look at his demeanor and see it in his eyes. He's been humiliated in front of the WHOLE neighborhood. She laughed about the 3 am stunt..."guess you heard I was pissed off at John....(laughing)...he's just such an idiot."
I PRAY some self confident man who works with MALE victims of abuse will step forward. If we have to go thru ALV again, IMO, a male who represents domestic abuse on husbands/boyfriends/life partners would certainly help the jury see the REAL course of events.
 
  • #997
was this about MY post? nobody's blaming TA!! but i said from day one i don't believe most men, if asked whether they believe a woman could overpower them and slaughter them, would believe it. i don't think men FEAR women the way women fear men. and i think that was true of TA.

i mean look at HIM and look at HER. the fury of her attack had to be just incredible because he only had a few defensive wounds. she got lucky with her first thrust of that knife and injured him so badly, he couldn't fight her off and get the upper hand.

he WAS bigger and stronger than her, and yet what happened, happened.

Amazingly enough, yes. I was responding to Crimesnoooper's response to your post. I don't know how that got misconstrued as "blaming" Travis.
 
  • #998
Yes she had many friends apparently there, and you are right about Twitter etc., and what you said about getting life, she is smart enough to know that everything that did not come into play for her trail, will now come into play, if she had not been so arrogant, and unremorseful in those interviews which will
now come to bite her in the bum!!

Correction, you are correct, the only friend I recall is the one that was released and sent tweets for her, I think?
It does not really matter now.
Will the 18 page letter she wrote the Alexander family after TA's death come into court? Is there anything in that letter that can be used against her?
 
  • #999
I also think the early question about what to do with a deadlock went unanswered. I think the judge misunderstood that they wanted to know procedure. THEN later they put no unanimous decision on the verdict form instead of announcing they were deadlocked. I think the judge actually thought they had a verdict, and that the foreman thought this was a verdict. When the person read the verdict, she seemed confused. I think the judge was frustrated because she probably would have sent them back one more time. IMO

Yes I agree. I think the foreman would have made an enormous effort to convince the others to vote for life had he known that there would be a mistrial and a new trial. Another shot at death. He thought he could get life for Jodi simply by not reaching a unanimous verdict.
 
  • #1,000
The foreman said that he had no idea the Judge would declare a mistrial. He said they had deliberated all they could. They were truly dead-locked. He thought the Judge would sentence JA to life with or without parole.

Here's what I think went through his mind. He was not a competent foreman. The minute I heard from him that they expressed their individuals opinions but did not try to influence one another I knew what this guy's agenda was.
He wanted life for JA and I think he wanted life with parole. He made no effort to have an open mind. He thought a hung jury would be fine. The Judge would sentence JA to life. The foreman would get what he wanted.

Why be surprised at a mistrial when you say so firmly that you were dead-locked? It scared him that there would be another trial. Another chance at death.

What a $$$%#$.

What's even sadder to me is not ONE juror challenged him or sent a note to the judge when that failed. Not a single person understood their job as a juror or what the word deliberate meant.

If I were on that jury, I would have had him tossed for refusing to deliberate, he opted instead to disregard the oath he swore to uphold.

What the heck are they teaching in schools these days that people do not know the role of a jury? The meaning of the word deliberate???? How trials work in their own darn state? Ignorant people....annoy me



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