Simple question...

[BBB167893]

gut feeling = wishful thinking

How are most murders by strangulation via garrote done, in front of the victum or behind and what are %?

strangulation from behind is equally typical of serial killers who do not care for their victims, i.e BTK.

The SK in CASKU stands for "Serial Killer," so I imagine they'd probably KNOW that! And a gut feeling is NOT the same as wishful thinking. I speak from personal experience on that. Moreover, if they were given to wishful thinking, I'd suggest a different line of work.

 

[cynic]

you're clinging to 'PR wrote the note'...

Let your eyes be your guide.

 

[voynich]

The SK in CASKU stands for "Serial Killer," so I imagine they'd probably KNOW that! And a gut feeling is NOT the same as wishful thinking. I speak from personal experience on that. Moreover, if they were given to wishful thinking, I'd suggest a different line of work.

You can strangle someone with a garrote facing them or behind them.

If JB were strangled frontally, CASKU could just as easily say they have a gut feeling that JB was familar and trusted the perp, as in a family member, as killers like Dennis Rader of BTK prefer to strangle from behind where they have the advantage of surprise.


Tell me something Davth, if JB were strangle frontally, would you think IDI? If one of BTK's victim was strangled from behind, do you think it was a family member?

 

[BBB167893]

You can strangle someone with a garrote facing them or behind them.

I know that.

If JB were strangled frontally, CASKU could just as easily say they have a gut feeling that JB was familar and trusted the perp, as in a family member, as killers like Dennis Rader of BTK prefer to strangle from behind where they have the advantage of surprise.

They could, but I doubt they would. The reason I say that is that they weren't just looking at the garrote in a vacuum, they were looking at it within the larger context of the whole crime.

Tell me something Davth, if JB were strangle frontally, would you think IDI?

Under the right conditions, very possibly.

If one of BTK's victim was strangled from behind, do you think it was a family member?

That would depend on the circumstances, I guess.

 

[voynich]

I know that.



They could, but I doubt they would. The reason I say that is that they weren't just looking at the garrote in a vacuum, they were looking at it within the larger context of the whole crime.



Under the right conditions, very possibly.



That would depend on the circumstances, I guess.

CASKU can't say with certainty whether the head blow came first or strangulation.

The fact JB was strangled from behind is consistent with an intruder who snuck up behind JB, to maintain an element of surprised, and put the rope over her from behind, and then strangled her. Or an intruder who didn't want to see JB's face.

 

[DeeDee249]

I think the evidence shows that she was strangled from behind. But I think this has less to do with her killer not wanting to look at her face than it does that she was already unconscious and laying face down on the floor.

 

[voynich]

I think the evidence shows that she was strangled from behind. But I think this has less to do with her killer not wanting to look at her face than it does that she was already unconscious and laying face down on the floor.

as good an explanation as CASKU's gut feelings

 

[BBB167893]

CASKU can't say with certainty whether the head blow came first or strangulation.

True. But that's pretty much a moot point, the way I see it.

The fact JB was strangled from behind is consistent with an intruder who snuck up behind JB, to maintain an element of surprised, and put the rope over her from behind, and then strangled her. Or an intruder who didn't want to see JB's face.

IF the head blow came last, I could agree.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

CASKU can't say with certainty whether the head blow came first or strangulation.

The fact JB was strangled from behind is consistent with an intruder who snuck up behind JB, to maintain an element of surprised, and put the rope over her from behind, and then strangled her. Or an intruder who didn't want to see JB's face.

It would seem to me that frontal ligature strangulation is probably rare. Besides, the idea that JBR was strangled from behind is a claim.

The Dark Side claims CASKU and ABFDE alliances when really none exist. They are like trophies displayed by RDI that were never really awarded in the first place.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Let your eyes be your guide.

If you want my eyes to guide you, I'll need originals or photographic representations of originals held as items of evidence.

Looks can be deceiving, esp. when the samples came via scan, fax, tabloid, and internet. These 'official exemplars' are nothing more than supermarket trash, really.

 

[BBB167893]

The Dark Side claims CASKU and ABFDE alliances when really none exist.

Don't be too sure.

 

[voynich]

True. But that's pretty much a moot point, the way I see it.



IF the head blow came last, I could agree.

I hear a new spin you have, Super. Or should I call you Darvth Spinidious.

Not if anything to say about it, I have.

At an end to your spin, and not a moment to soon.

If the strangulation came before the head blow, and it came from behind, we would have to ask why JR or PR would strangle their own child and on Christmas day.

 

[Ravyn]

Can you tell me why any parent would kill thier children...And why these two is any different...Do think they are different cause they was better off than most,went to church, then if that is so tell me why priest been caught molesting lilttle boys and girls before...Why put the Ramsey's on such an high place that they couldn't kill JonBenet...


Other than DNA or the using anything in this case...Tell me why the IDI's don't think the R's could kill their child....

 

[Melanie]

First glance:

- same writer
- different pen (second one with a thicker felt ink)

MOO

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Don't be too sure.

CASKU and ABFDE alliances exist with RDI only to the extent that we can appreciate the effects. There are no effects that I can see other than some antiquated RDI enthusiats name-dropping.

Probably CASKU now considers the JBR murder to be an anomaly.

ABFDE CDE's never formed a consensus that PR wrote the note. This absence of consensus is in stark opposition to the whole "PR wrote the note" claim. Therefore, the more really good comparisons RDI pulls out of its hat, the more suspect the sources and methods become.

Its the same ol' story for RDI on just about everything that comes up: so close yet so far.

Handwriting is supposed to be PR's disguised, tranquilized, and left handed alterations. LOL can you make up your mind? LE has not acted on similarities in the handwriting. Has not approached or persued PR as its author in 12 years. Quite the contrary.

DNA is prophesied to be innocent transfer or mix, and despite 6 separate specimens and over 10 years of study, not one is proven to have been innocently transferred or mixed.

What other 'close yet so far' arguments does RDI have? Oh yeah: prior abuse. LE has not acted once on 'evidence of prior abuse' that RDI incessantly hounds. If you want to learn more about JBR and prior abuse, there's always the tabloids and books authored by RDI enthusiasts. I wouldn't ask LE though. Interesting that prior abuse is exclusively RDI issue even though an intruder could've been abusing JBR prior to the night he killed her.

 

[Chrishope]

Ransom note contents: irrelevant, as no ransom was collected and JBR was in the basement.


I was just curious, how many 'irrelevants' RDI gets before it loses credibility as an excuse? Has RDI used them all up yet or are there more? Let me guess: as many as are needed, right?

Far from being irrelevant, the fact that we have a "RN" and a dead body in the basement is a red flag that the RN is probably fake. Very relevant indeed.

 

[Suthrnqt]

I think the samples look the same, just written with a different pen.

 

[BBB167893]

I hear a new spin you have, Super. Or should I call you Darvth Spinidious.

Not if anything to say about it, I have.

At an end to your spin, and not a moment to soon.

You think yourself a knight, when you are a pawn.

If the strangulation came before the head blow, and it came from behind, we would have to ask why JR or PR would strangle their own child and on Christmas day.

Tell me something I don't know.

 

[BBB167893]

CASKU and ABFDE alliances exist with RDI only to the extent that we can appreciate the effects. There are no effects that I can see other than some antiquated RDI enthusiats name-dropping.

Except that the names we drop are the equivalent of atomic bombs in their respective fields.

Probably CASKU now considers the JBR murder to be an anomaly.

Even back then, they said it was in many ways.

ABFDE CDE's never formed a consensus that PR wrote the note. This absence of consensus is in stark opposition to the whole "PR wrote the note" claim.

Not really, for several reasons I could give.

Therefore, the more really good comparisons RDI pulls out of its hat, the more suspect the sources and methods become.

Yeah, I knew it was only a matter of time before you pulled that old dodge out of mothballs. Truth be told, that argument would have more weight if not for the endorsement of several former ABFDE members who actually left that organization because they got fed up with the narrow-mindedness and politics of it.

Its the same ol' story for RDI on just about everything that comes up: so close yet so far.

Through no fault of ours.

Handwriting is supposed to be PR's disguised, tranquilized, and left handed alterations. LOL can you make up your mind?

What do you mean, "make up my mind?"

LE has not acted on similarities in the handwriting.

Given the way handwriting analysis has fallen out of favor with the courts over the last 20 years, that's not really surprising. There are two radio interviews I'd REALLY like you to listen to. I doubt that will happen, though.

Has not approached or pursued PR as its author in 12 years. Quite the contrary.

Not MY fault.

What other 'close yet so far' arguments does RDI have?

Make no mistake, HOTYH: it's not the science that limits our arguments anywhere NEAR as much as it is the gutlessness of the politico-prosecutors who couldn't be bothered to follow up on any of it. And PLEASE, do NOT insult my intelligence with any of that "violin" BS. The greenest rookie on a BEAT would be expected to do the kinds of things that were refused in this case!

Oh yeah: prior abuse. LE has not acted once on 'evidence of prior abuse' that RDI incessantly hounds.

Again, not MY fault. It's one thing not to pursue these things; it's quite another to actually ADOPT the language of defense attorneys to justify their reticence.

Let me put it this way: it takes more than four good legs to make a horse run; it's takes a strong heart as well.

If you want to learn more about JBR and prior abuse, there's always the tabloids and books authored by RDI enthusiasts.

I plan to do a little educating of my own pretty soon.

I wouldn't ask LE though.

If what I've got in the works goes well, it won't be me doing the asking.

Interesting that prior abuse is exclusively RDI issue even though an intruder could've been abusing JBR prior to the night he killed her.

Yes, that IS interesting, just for the reasons you list. Now you're talking.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You think yourself a knight, when you are a pawn.



Tell me something I don't know.

If Sir Voynich doesn't want to tell you something you don't know, I can. And you know I'm good for it. It starts with you telling me what you believe is a 'fat cat'.