Skyla Whitaker, 11, & Taylor Placker 13 - Found Murdered - #14

[ArizonaGiGi]

Hi Rose if ur still up,
just catching up on the posts. I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard something in the way of leads since the heartwrenching 911 tape was released. Still hoping soon

SS thanks so much for letting me steal your poi avatar. it'd be cool if lots of ppl on here did the same and we could advertise his face. If he happened to come on here, he'd see himself everywhere. lol

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Frog, it really isn't something we do on the forums. There is a prayer thread in the Jury Room for members to congregate tho. Happy praying and conversing!

 

[RoseRed]

SS thanks so much for letting me steal your poi avatar. it'd be cool if lots of ppl on here did the same and we could advertise his face. If he happened to come on here, he'd see himself everywhere. lol

Yes thanks SS. am trying to change avatar. Will see what happens.

 

[Busylady]

I think the avatar thing is a wonderful idea. I am just going to have to train myself to look at posters names versus recognizing posters by avatar.

 

[RoseRed]

I think the avatar thing is a wonderful idea. I am just going to have to train myself to look at posters names versus recognizing posters by avatar.

I can't get mine to change for some reason.

 

[Nickelfoo]

I'm not sure, another unsolved case. If I remember right wasn't there 3 girls killed at Locust Grove?

That is correct. That case affected me a great deal as I was just a bit older than those girls and I had attended girl scout camp (a different camp then the one at Locust Grove) year before. They reopened that case about a year ago to check the DNA but still have not released any information. Unlike this case, the motive was the rape and murder of those three little girls. I looked up Harvey Pratt and yes he did work on that case and to my surprise, he worked the Sirlion Stockade murders as well, which opened up even more painful memories for me. A very good friend of mine was murdered in that walk-in freezer that night.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Pratt

I pray they find whoever did this so justice can be served. Although knowing the motive will never take away the pain the families are enduring, it may help if this person/people are caught.

 

[Nickelfoo]

It would be discriminatory - anywhere, but especially in Oklahoma. You must understand that like African Americans, Native Americans were treated like like they were less than human - they even took their CHILDREN away to Indian Schools (boarding schools) and tried to make the kids more "white". They have endured 200 years of abuse and lies from the white man who took their land, their languages, their religion, their way of life and finally their children. The 5 civilized tribes in OK are there because they were forced from their homes in many other states to walk to OK on a march every bit as brutal and deadly as those death marches by the Nazi's in Germany.

The Native American community is quite powerful in OK and they would be marching on the capitol building in a heartbeat and holding press conferences if this "fake POI" were to happen. Members of the NA community have already spoken out about the POI being a NA man with long hair (considered traditional NA) being too generic and possibly encouraging racist behavior by potentially targeting too many innocent NA men.

I can assure you this did NOT happen and no traditional Peace Chief of the Cheyenne Tribe would EVER agree to do this, he would resign first.

My Opinion

FC, you are absolutly on the mark here. I too am from Oklahoma and my grandmother is 1/2 Native American. At one point our family was on the role for benefits, but this was considered an embarassment at the time so we dropped our role number and never collected any benefits from this. Boy I would sure like to have that back. My children sure could use that assistance to help them pay for college.

 

[christine2448]

I cannot help but wonder if part of the misinformation LE provided in the beginning is because the people at the scene were not truthful (hate to say it but thats what I feel right now).

Once they had time to research and interview everyone, they figured out no it wasnt one of the girls cell phones used to make the 911 call, time line not adding up, who was at the scene and when, who made the 911 call, etc. Due to the ongoing investigation, they did not inform the media and clarify the misinformation given, just let the family keep giving interviews and talking.

I was so upset about this yesterday after hearing the 911 call. I was ranting and raving to my husband about it, he pointed out if LE came out everytime to correct information after the investigation phase had begun, corrected family members statements they had given in interviews etc alot of cases would never be solved. One of the first things LE probably does is listen and disect the interviews family members give, and figure out what doesnt match and go from there. If they went public with those corrections LE would lose alot of valuable investigative tool, because family members would stop talking.

While it is easier for me to sit back and say LE isnt doing their job, they have mislead us, I can't put the total blame on them. I hate to say it but in my opinion some of the family members have mislead the public, which has to make me wonder why?

I agree that it's very likely the facts have changed a few times since LE first pulled up on that scene. Part of investigating is pulling it all together...what did they know for sure when they first arrived it was prolly total chaos, they were reporting what they (LE) thought to be true at time of reporting, as they investigated (and are not releasing info/changes as they are learning to us) they are getting the facts straight.

As far as family, I haven't got that figured out. Haven't followed closely enough to come to a good conclusion. You feel however, they have been misleading. Do you think they are involved? Or they know but are staying quite?

I still am clueless on this one. Absolutely clueless. If we had another poll today, I'd answer the same as I did before...."I don't know and I can't even guess".

 

[tapu]

Peter Placker said Taylor had been walking down to the bridge for several months to exercise - he did not say so, but I betcha there were a few boys hanging around down there sometimes too, Taylor was 13, old enough to be a little interested in the boys. The bridge was a bit of a "kids" hangout - not much else to do out in the country for kids under 16.

Peter Placker did say that it was just in the last few months that they allowed Taylor to walk down there alone - after she told them she was getting older and they should trust her --- the usual "give me some freedom" phase that 12 and 13 year olds go thru. Taylor had turned 13 a few month ago - she was a year behind in school - kids her age are usually going into the 8th grade, not the 7th. Taylor would have turned 14 before she finished 7th grade and 16 before she finished 9th grade

My Opinion

Hmm.... Well, the only thing I get from that is that, if the bridge was such a popular hang-out, then it would be odd for anything criminal or otherwise unsavory to be going down there. Maybe the girls went elsewhere on the way to the bridge (can't imagine where--i grew up in a rural area, too, but... taking the boy-interest idea quite seriously) and saw something in that less-used location. There a water tower, old substation, anything else at all around?

(ta' flower. much appreciated.)

 

[christine2448]

That is correct. That case affected me a great deal as I was just a bit older than those girls and I had attended girl scout camp (a different camp then the one at Locust Grove) year before. They reopened that case about a year ago to check the DNA but still have not released any information. Unlike this case, the motive was the rape and murder of those three little girls. I looked up Harvey Pratt and yes he did work on that case and to my surprise, he worked the Sirlion Stockade murders as well, which opened up even more painful memories for me. A very good friend of mine was murdered in that walk-in freezer that night.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Pratt

I pray they find whoever did this so justice can be served. Although knowing the motive will never take away the pain the families are enduring, it may help if this person/people are caught.

Are you referrring to the murders at the girl scout camp, 1977, Camp Scott?

 

[tapu]

It would be discriminatory - anywhere, but especially in Oklahoma. You must understand that like African Americans, Native Americans were treated like like they were less than human - they even took their CHILDREN away to Indian Schools (boarding schools) and tried to make the kids more "white". They have endured 200 years of abuse and lies from the white man who took their land, their languages, their religion, their way of life and finally their children. The 5 civilized tribes in OK are there because they were forced from their homes in many other states to walk to OK on a march every bit as brutal and deadly as those death marches by the Nazi's in Germany.

The Native American community is quite powerful in OK and they would be marching on the capitol building in a heartbeat and holding press conferences if this "fake POI" were to happen. Members of the NA community have already spoken out about the POI being a NA man with long hair (considered traditional NA) being too generic and possibly encouraging racist behavior by potentially targeting too many innocent NA men.

I can assure you this did NOT happen and no traditional Peace Chief of the Cheyenne Tribe would EVER agree to do this, he would resign first.

My Opinion

Thank you for explaining this. Morag, I would add that if you want to read about a sensational case where something similar was involved, see the Charles Stuart case in Boston. He was the perp, but made up a young black male perp. When you read what happened, you will see why no one--especially LE--would want to go that direction.

 

[Nickelfoo]

Are you referrring to the murders at the girl scout camp, 1977, Camp Scott?

Yes that is the one. The suspect Gene Leroy Hart died in prison, but if memory serves, he was in prison for a different reason. I dont think he was ever convicted of these murders.

 

[tapu]

I cannot help but wonder if part of the misinformation LE provided in the beginning is because the people at the scene were not truthful (hate to say it but thats what I feel right now).

Once they had time to research and interview everyone, they figured out no it wasnt one of the girls cell phones used to make the 911 call, time line not adding up, who was at the scene and when, who made the 911 call, etc. Due to the ongoing investigation, they did not inform the media and clarify the misinformation given, just let the family keep giving interviews and talking.

I was so upset about this yesterday after hearing the 911 call. I was ranting and raving to my husband about it, he pointed out if LE came out everytime to correct information after the investigation phase had begun, corrected family members statements they had given in interviews etc alot of cases would never be solved. One of the first things LE probably does is listen and disect the interviews family members give, and figure out what doesnt match and go from there. If they went public with those corrections LE would lose alot of valuable investigative tool, because family members would stop talking.

While it is easier for me to sit back and say LE isnt doing their job, they have mislead us, I can't put the total blame on them. I hate to say it but in my opinion some of the family members have mislead the public, which has to make me wonder why?

I think this is an excellent post, but would like to suggest that the people involved mostly are not being misleading-- rather, the confusion around a crime like this happening affects recall, and recall changes over time. Anyone who has ever been witness to a crime is usually astonished at the differences between what they recall and what others recall (for example).

 

[CMorrison64]

Hi Rose if ur still up,
just catching up on the posts. I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard something in the way of leads since the heartwrenching 911 tape was released. Still hoping soon

SS thanks so much for letting me steal your poi avatar. it'd be cool if lots of ppl on here did the same and we could advertise his face. If he happened to come on here, he'd see himself everywhere. lol

How do you steal it, I'd be glad to take it and spread it around as well.

 

[hannahsnana]

Nickelfoo, you can't "lose" your place on the Dawes Rolls. However, it would not be you, but your ancestors who would have been registered by the government on the Rolls. This took place in the late 1800s and early 1900s. All declared members of the Five Civilized Tribes who had been removed to Oklahoma were registered on the Dawes Rolls.
If you can provide real documentation (not hearsay) that shows you to be a descendant of one of those registered, you are eligible to be a member of the Tribe, DEPENDING on your blood quantum. Some tribes require a certain blood quantum for membership, others do not.

 

[Busylady]

I do not think they are necessarily directly involved in the deaths, but I think they are afraid of something and there is some misleading going on by them in order to keep some family members out of trouble.

I agree that it's very likely the facts have changed a few times since LE first pulled up on that scene. Part of investigating is pulling it all together...what did they know for sure when they first arrived it was prolly total chaos, they were reporting what they (LE) thought to be true at time of reporting, as they investigated (and are not releasing info/changes as they are learning to us) they are getting the facts straight.

As far as family, I haven't got that figured out. Haven't followed closely enough to come to a good conclusion. You feel however, they have been misleading. Do you think they are involved? Or they know but are staying quite?

I still am clueless on this one. Absolutely clueless. If we had another poll today, I'd answer the same as I did before...."I don't know and I can't even guess".

 

[tapu]

I didn't show the bodies face up or face down, just symbols - since we don't know.
~~snip~~
it is likely that the information released in the 1st few days is correct, and the girls were both face down, heads toward the road. And Rosser was very clear that the girls heads were toward the road. To fall on their backs with their heads toward the road, they would literally have had to spin around with their BACKS to the shooter positioned in the road (where the bullet casing were found) before they fell - and no wounds to the back were reported by the ME...chest and face/head only.

If they didn't fall that way, if anyone moved the bodies onto their backs it would have probably have been Peter Placker, not the killer. While the killer(s) could have, it wouldn't make any sense for the killer(s) to turn the girls face up (or touch the bodies at all).
~~snip~~
My Opinion

Thoughts on this:

Certain factors in this situation make it extremely intense for the shooter(s). Like, broad daylight, on a road, with a driveway in sight. (Leaving aside for now the fact that he/they were shooting little girls.) This leads me to think there have to be two shooters, as one would not empty a second gun into them after shooting them with the first. (unless of course they weren't dead, but that seems unlikely given the number of shots.)

The other point brought to mind for me does harken back to the fact that they were pumping bullets in little girls: it would provide a plausible reason for the shooter(s) NOT to turn them over. Now, coming from FC's reasoning above (which I think is really good) that the bodies would fall face down, I think that would be their position upon being found. Don't killers who have some regret/feelings usually turn their victims face down, not face up?

Scheiss, that last part may seem confused but I think I know what I mean....

 

[christine2448]

Yes that is the one. The suspect Gene Leroy Hart died in prison, but if memory serves, he was in prison for a different reason. I dont think he was ever convicted of these murders.

He was convicted and it was overturned, IIRC, 2 yrs later he was aquitted..he did die in jail, he was in jail for rape, again IIRC....I was just reading about this, let me see if I can find a link. Here it is, the article came out last month...

To date, the late Gene Leroy Hart is the only person to ever be charged with the murder of the three Girl Scouts. Hart, then 34 and a fugitive, had been spotted living in the Cookson Hills near Camp Scott at the time of the murders.
Hart, however, was acquitted by a Mayes County jury in March 1979. Two months after his acquittal, Hart collapsed at the Oklahoma State Penitentiary in McAlester from a heart attack while serving 308 years for unrelated rape, burglary, and kidnapping convictions. “I feel badly for the families of those little girls who were murdered,” said Garvin Isaacs, Hart’s defense attorney. “But Gene Leroy Hart was an innocent man who was falsely accused.”

Was a female involved in 1977 Girl Scout slayings?

Article was 6/25/08 about DNA

LOCUST GROVE — The unsolved 1977 Girl Scouts murder mystery just grew murkier.

Recent DNA tests failed to identify the killer or killers who raped and murdered three Oklahoma girls June 13, 1977, at Camp Scott in Locust Grove. However, the tests revealed a partial female DNA profile, Mayes County District Attorney Gene Haynes announced Tuesday in a news release.
Testing from a semen-stained pillowcase found at the crime scene failed to exclude all three of the victims or the possibility of a female attacker, adding to the stockpile of questions that already surround this enduring mystery.

 

[Nickelfoo]

Nickelfoo, you can't "lose" your place on the Dawes Rolls. However, it would not be you, but your ancestors who would have been registered by the government on the Rolls. This took place in the late 1800s and early 1900s. All declared members of the Five Civilized Tribes who had been removed to Oklahoma were registered on the Dawes Rolls.
If you can provide real documentation (not hearsay) that shows you to be a descendant of one of those registered, you are eligible to be a member of the Tribe, DEPENDING on your blood quantum. Some tribes require a certain blood quantum for membership, others do not.

Yes I understand all that. There is no proof as it was decided to be forgotten. My grandmother is too old to remember any of the information and my father was not interested in any of it.

 

[tapu]

Thoughts on this:

Certain factors in this situation make it extremely intense for the shooter(s). Like, broad daylight, on a road, with a driveway in sight. (Leaving aside for now the fact that he/they were shooting little girls.) This leads me to think there have to be two shooters, as one would not empty a second gun into them after shooting them with the first. (unless of course they weren't dead, but that seems unlikely given the number of shots.)

~snip~

Yes, I'm debating with myself....
But I want to counter the idea that two guns = two shooters, based solely on the belief that it is damned unlikely to find two guys who would empty guns into two little girls on a road in broad daylight. Maybe the killer just really was that thorough that he got another gun to make sure the job was done. Must have had nerves of steel, though, given where he was.