Sniff tests, hair decomp, really so conclusive? Fence sitters thread

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Oh, I agree. It definitely would have been a more stable, and safer, environment, to be back with her grandparents than going from here to there staying with friends with the 22year old mom. But no reports of her mistreating Caylee or anything remotely like that.

Up for a midnight tinkle and thought I would see how this thread was progressing... Good grief!! :)

So Seagull65, I would love to hear what you think about Cindy's July 3rd post on her MySpace blog as quoted below:


"She came into my life unexpectedly, just as she has left me. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone and I don’t know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankful for all of the love and support given to her. A mother’s love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most. A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant; the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind. A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change. This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies and more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?"
 
That's a good question. My impression is that they were pressuring Casey to move out but that Cindy was very unhappy when Casey took Caylee with her (judging from that post that Cindy put on her myspace or facebook), especially when she then didn't hear from them, no visits, etc. She wrote her post asking basically "why have you taken the baby away when I supported you during your pregnancy and raised and fed this baby with you" (I'm paraphrasing there, not exact quote.) I definitely think the grandparents would have taken Caylee, I think Casey was getting back at them a bit by saying, okay, if that's the way you want it, you can't have Caylee either, she and I are going to start our own life and have some bonding time together. Earlier in this case I even thought maybe Casey had had friends hide Caylee from the grandparents, either because (a) she was afraid they wanted custody or could win custody, or even (b) I wondered what if the child had had an accident like a black eye or broken arm, or anything like that, would Casey possibly have friends hide her until it could heal rather than face her parents with it... especially if there was any chance of a custody issue.

Cindy heard from Casey every day by phone, text messages, and emails, with the exception of a couple days where she could not reach her by phone.

That was Cindy's testimony at the bond hearing.

Do you have a link to information that disproves what Cindy said?
 
I had hoped that in the beginning too. Just Casey being obstinate, I have a 23 y/o son who I love dearly, but he knows how to push my buttons! (we are alot alike actually) But do you think that the GP thought Casey would move out with Caylee?

IMO, the fact that Casey did NOT abuse Caylee while she had her parents as a safety net was exactly WHAT allowed Cindy to feel like she could take the gamble that Casey having Caylee 24/7 might be just what she needed to open her eyes & start to APPRECIATE everything her parents did for both of them.

A little experiment to see if Casey would grow up & start to become more responsible.

I think that's why Cindy was able to resist chasing after Casey for a month.... even though she WAS broken-hearted AND missed Caylee, she figured Casey was just not letting her speak to her out of spite & Cindy didn't want to give Casey the reaction she probably expected.... to have her parents come get her & embarrass her thus confirming to all her friends how mean they were & how they always controlled everything she did.



Ooops.... sorry, you asked seagull. I'll shut up now. lol
 
Well the fact that no body has been found obviously helps a lot. The fact that the grandparents and Casey believe that the babysitter took her helps. The sighting reported in the airport helps. The fact that there was no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate toward Caylee, according to the friends and acquaintances and family, that helps. The lack of motive also helps. Also the way the dogs alerted somewhat differently in the back yard...

Lack of body, for me, is a non-issue. There was DNA evidence in that trunk that proves Caylee's body was in it, and that her body was decomposing at the time. I trust the FBI labs, and I'm assuming that the OSCO labs have tested it as well.

What Casey believes is irrelevant. She's a POI in her daughter's disappearance, has been nothing but dishonest and unhelpful throughout the investigation. GPs are NOT reliable for so many reasons -- they are grieving, and denial is usually the first step in that process. We have -through their own actions- reason to question how rational they are at the current time.

The sighting in the airport does not help. It came from Cindy -see above- rather than LE, and when LE did look into it, they found nothing to validate the claim (no video footage, no pictures, no recollection of Caylee from ANYBODY other than the woman who had made the claim -- not security, not other passengers, not airport employees, not people who were there to pick up/drop off passengers). There have been NO confirmed sightings of his child since 6/15.

As for there being no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate towards Caylee,

  • We have at least one person who has stated to LE that Casey did not want Caylee when she was pregnant.
  • IIRC, in recent months, Casey had complained to somebody about how she could not go out and party b/c she had a child
  • Casey did very little, if anything, to provide for Caylee at any point in Caylee's life [unemployed since 2006. Per Cindy's blog on 7/3, Cindy fed, sheltered, clothed that child AND provided for her with medical care. Taking no responsibility for your child and their needs is anything but normal or affectionate]
  • Letting your 2 year old sleep in the same bed with you and your boyfriend [when the relationship isn't serious] is, IMO, sortakindareally creepy, and _not_ normal
  • Dragging your two year old to poker parties, and putting her to sleep on the couch while people drink, smoke and do god knows what? Not normal.
  • Lying to people about who cares for your child? Not normal.
  • Waiting 30 days after your child "goes missing" -and all the time living it up and feeding people a steaming pile about how she's just fine and in the care of a nanny or her grandparents-, reporting her "disappearance" to authorities ONLY when forced to? Not normal. Not affectionate. Doing nothing but feeding the investigators who are pouring time and energy into locating your child, lies and hostility? Abnormal and cold.
 
Crap I'm in trouble because when we get to that hurdle, I will probably sit on this uncomfy fence again. :eek:

Thanks, this made me smile. I will be sitting on the fence, too. Trying not to fall off. :crazy:
 
IMO, the fact that Casey did NOT abuse Caylee while she had her parents as a safety net was exactly WHAT allowed Cindy to feel like she could take the gamble that Casey having Caylee 24/7 might be just what she needed to open her eyes & start to APPRECIATE everything her parents did for both of them.

A little experiment to see if Casey would grow up & start to become more responsible.

I think that's why Cindy was able to resist chasing after Casey for a month.... even though she WAS broken-hearted AND missed Caylee, she figured Casey was just not letting her speak to her out of spite & Cindy didn't want to give Casey the reaction she probably expected.... to have her parents come get her & embarrass her thus confirming to all her friends how mean they were & how they always controlled everything she did.



Ooops.... sorry, you asked seagull. I'll shut up now. lol

I agree. I can picture it going like that.
 
Well, I wish I could say that I was as optimistic as some of the folks here. While we all have our own opinions, none of us here know everything there is to know....yet..and we probably never will. My personal opinion is that Caylee is no longer with us..and Oh How I Wish I Was Wrong! Going to bed now and saying a prayer that tommorow little Caylee will be brought home.
 
Well, I wish I could say that I was as optimistic as some of the folks here. While we all have our own opinions, none of us here know everything there is to know....yet..and we probably never will. My personal opinion is that Caylee is no longer with us..and Oh How I Wish I Was Wrong! Going to bed now and saying a prayer that tommorow little Caylee will be brought home.

me too, Pondering Mind, thanks for your posts
 
Cindy heard from Casey every day by phone, text messages, and emails, with the exception of a couple days where she could not reach her by phone.

That was Cindy's testimony at the bond hearing.

Do you have a link to information that disproves what Cindy said?

Cindy's concern was being out of contact with Caylee.


It's very obvious that Casey used Caylee as a weapon to hurt her mother & her mother responded by laying a little guilt trip on her ungrateful daughter.

I bet she even knew that it would have NO effect on Casey except to make her enjoy knowing how much she was hurting her mom but Cindy probably felt better after she vented at least.
 
IMO, the fact that Casey did NOT abuse Caylee while she had her parents as a safety net was exactly WHAT allowed Cindy to feel like she could take the gamble that Casey having Caylee 24/7 might be just what she needed to open her eyes & start to APPRECIATE everything her parents did for both of them.

A little experiment to see if Casey would grow up & start to become more responsible.

I think that's why Cindy was able to resist chasing after Casey for a month.... even though she WAS broken-hearted AND missed Caylee, she figured Casey was just not letting her speak to her out of spite & Cindy didn't want to give Casey the reaction she probably expected.... to have her parents come get her & embarrass her thus confirming to all her friends how mean they were & how they always controlled everything she did.



Ooops.... sorry, you asked seagull. I'll shut up now. lol

No worries! I think you are right. The GP IMO could never have imagined any thing like this. I don't think as some do that they had anything to do with this. All I had to do was listen to that last 911 call to hear the anguish in Cindys voice. Now that was REAL. JMHO
 
Cindy heard from Casey every day by phone, text messages, and emails, with the exception of a couple days where she could not reach her by phone.

That was Cindy's testimony at the bond hearing.

Do you have a link to information that disproves what Cindy said?

No, I agree with this, that is what I recall from the hearing also. It doesn't conflict with what I was saying about Cindy posting on her myspace or facebook essentially 'why have you taken the baby away' and how distressed she was to be separated from Caylee. I was answering someone else's question there about did I think the grandparents would have been happy to take Caylee back if Casey had wanted to be free of the child, etc. I do think they would gladly have taken her back. my opinion only
 
In the hearing Cindy was asked to clarify that exact point, and she said she had always had text messages or emails though not always phone contact from Casey. In her 911 call it had sounded a bit more like Casey had really been missing for a month, though.
 
re: Casey "not wanting" Caylee:
Kiomarie (?) said that when Casey first found out she was pregnant she was not sure if she wanted to have the child, her mother urged her to have the baby. She obviously decided to have it. Kiomarie said she approached Casey and expressed an interest in adopting her baby. Casey did not take her up on it.
 
Does anyone know when Lee moved out?

I'm wondering if Casey started to spiral out of control only after she didn't have someone in the house who could take her 'side.' Did she change when she became the 'only child' in the family.... did she become more & more manipulative & demanding without someone else to balance things out?

Did she LIKE being the only child & then start to resent Caylee for taking her place?

It's obvious Cindy is a controlling person.... not that this makes her BAD.... just that she's headstrong & seems to be rather unbending once she's made up her mind (in some ways she reminds me of my mom)..... I bet there was a lot of conflict with her daughter once she hit the teen years.

I still want to know more about Casey's behavior BEFORE she had Caylee. Was she just a typical teenager who maybe had a little rougher time than the average teenager growing up... or was she ALWAYS showing signs of abnormal behaviors?


I find it very odd that Casey had NO history of counseling that we've heard of yet... Cindy's a nurse.... IF as a child Casey was having serious problems, I can't see her NOT taking steps to get her help. Cindy took good care of Caylee, I'm sure she took good care of HER children's needs also.

If Casey's abnormal behavior problems started AFTER Caylee's birth, I can definitely see Cindy being befuddled & not knowing how to force her (as an adult) into counseling & being afraid to alienate her & make a bad problem worse.


Man! What a mess.
 
Lack of body, for me, is a non-issue. There was DNA evidence in that trunk that proves Caylee's body was in it, and that her body was decomposing at the time. I trust the FBI labs, and I'm assuming that the OSCO labs have tested it as well.

What Casey believes is irrelevant. She's a POI in her daughter's disappearance, has been nothing but dishonest and unhelpful throughout the investigation. GPs are NOT reliable for so many reasons -- they are grieving, and denial is usually the first step in that process. We have -through their own actions- reason to question how rational they are at the current time.

The sighting in the airport does not help. It came from Cindy -see above- rather than LE, and when LE did look into it, they found nothing to validate the claim (no video footage, no pictures, no recollection of Caylee from ANYBODY other than the woman who had made the claim -- not security, not other passengers, not airport employees, not people who were there to pick up/drop off passengers). There have been NO confirmed sightings of his child since 6/15.

As for there being no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate towards Caylee,

  • We have at least one person who has stated to LE that Casey did not want Caylee when she was pregnant.
  • IIRC, in recent months, Casey had complained to somebody about how she could not go out and party b/c she had a child
  • Casey did very little, if anything, to provide for Caylee at any point in Caylee's life [unemployed since 2006. Per Cindy's blog on 7/3, Cindy fed, sheltered, clothed that child AND provided for her with medical care. Taking no responsibility for your child and their needs is anything but normal or affectionate]
  • Letting your 2 year old sleep in the same bed with you and your boyfriend [when the relationship isn't serious] is, IMO, sortakindareally creepy, and _not_ normal
  • Dragging your two year old to poker parties, and putting her to sleep on the couch while people drink, smoke and do god knows what? Not normal.
  • Lying to people about who cares for your child? Not normal.
  • Waiting 30 days after your child "goes missing" -and all the time living it up and feeding people a steaming pile about how she's just fine and in the care of a nanny or her grandparents-, reporting her "disappearance" to authorities ONLY when forced to? Not normal. Not affectionate. Doing nothing but feeding the investigators who are pouring time and energy into locating your child, lies and hostility? Abnormal and cold.

Well said Unravel. There's so much "not normal" in this case it seems positively surreal - until I look at this picture of Caylee to remind me why I hope so much whatever happened to her, she didn't suffer.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/images/2008/08/31/cayleeast.jpg
 
IIRC, "in recent months, Casey had complained to somebody about how she could not go out and party b/c she had a child"

seagull responds: this would not surprise me for any parent, much less a 22 year old. Sometimes you have to miss things when you have a young child.

"Casey did very little, if anything, to provide for Caylee at any point in Caylee's life [unemployed since 2006. Per Cindy's blog on 7/3, Cindy fed, sheltered, clothed that child AND provided for her with medical care. Taking no responsibility for your child and their needs is anything but normal or affectionate] "

seagull responds: Casey was just a teen when Caylee was born and still lived in her parents' home. Her parents provided care and financial support for for both of them. There are no reports of any lack of affection on Casey's part.
 
Does anyone know when Lee moved out?

I'm wondering if Casey started to spiral out of control only after she didn't have someone in the house who could take her 'side.' Did she change when she became the 'only child' in the family.... did she become more & more manipulative & demanding without someone else to balance things out?

Did she LIKE being the only child & then start to resent Caylee for taking her place?

It's obvious Cindy is a controlling person.... not that this makes her BAD.... just that she's headstrong & seems to be rather unbending once she's made up her mind (in some ways she reminds me of my mom)..... I bet there was a lot of conflict with her daughter once she hit the teen years.

I still want to know more about Casey's behavior BEFORE she had Caylee. Was she just a typical teenager who maybe had a little rougher time than the average teenager growing up... or was she ALWAYS showing signs of abnormal behaviors?


I find it very curious that Casey had NO history of counseling that we've heard of yet... Cindy's a nurse.... IF as a child Casey was having serious problems, I can't see her NOT taking steps to get her help. Cindy took good care of Caylee, I'm sure she took good care of HER children's needs also.

If Casey's abnormal behavior problems started AFTER Caylee's birth, I can definitely see Cindy being befuddled & not knowing how to force her (as an adult) into counseling & being afraid to alienate her & make a bad problem worse.


Man! What a mess.
 
some mental illnesses do have their first onset in the early twenties a lot of times, you never know...or drugs could have been involved, or simply the extreme pressure of trying to survive out in the world with a baby in tow, and no job and no preparation, all of these could have taken a toll on Casey. my opinion only p.s. or it could have been that absinthe
 
You are so right about the surreal feel of this case. Just because there are so many unanswered questions.

In response to the waiting 30 days to report it, acting detached and unconcerned, not seeming to realize she's gone, only stating and restating that she left Caylee with this nanny.....one person posted, I think it was here, that they believe that Casey was traumatized somehow, either that Casey discovered Caylee after a tragic accident, or that Caylee was taken from her, whatever the case, that something happened which left Casey traumatized and in shock, to the point that she won't let herself remember anything except that she dropped Caylee off at the sitter on a normal day (all the way back when she used to work at Universal). Interesting theory.
 
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