South Africa - Anni Dewani, 28, shot to death, Gugulethu, 13 Nov 2010 #3

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  • #821
I know this is the Daily Fail but....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ase-crumbles-key-witnesses-fail-convince.html

Also states that Mbolomo is due to testify, but his statement is new and therefore presumably different from the one he secured the imunity with. So, I think all three will have discredited their testimonies between them, with their evidence deemed unreliable and binned. So, what else has the state to offer?

It really stinks that Mbolombo got away with this, as I think it is quite likely that he routinely organised crimes and took his cut without actually participating, which makes him as bad as if he actually carried them out himself.
 
  • #822
If SD is found not guilty, will that mean the plea bargain could be withdrawn. I know they've still given evidence for the PT, but a not guilty, depending how the judge words it would suggest they are/were not telling the truth wouldn't it? That the murder was down to them in the planning and action.
 
  • #823
If SD is found not guilty, will that mean the plea bargain could be withdrawn. I know they've still given evidence for the PT, but a not guilty, depending how the judge words it would suggest they are/were not telling the truth wouldn't it? That the murder was down to them in the planning and action.

Below is a draft/template for an immunity document which would be used in the UK (bolded bit by me!). It would depend on the terms and how the subject would have breached it, e.g. by refusing to testify or being untruthful in testimony but he/she *could* be prosecuted for the original offence. In the case of a plea bargain for reduced sentence, the sentence would be liable to be reviewed. The outcome of any proceedings he/she testified during is irrelevant, just whether he/had breached it. For example, if the subject lied and the defendant was still found guilty, the subject would still be in breach.

Not sure how it works in SA but I think it would be the same....however, these agreements and their use ar far more common over there.

Draft immunity from prosecution
Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005
Notice under Section 71(1)

This agreement does not apply in relation to proceedings in Northern Ireland.

This Immunity from Prosecution (the Immunity) Notice is entered into pursuant to the provisions of section 71 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 (the Act).

I, (name of specified prosecutor), am a specified prosecutor for the purposes of section 71 of the Act [a Crown Prosecutor and a specified prosecutor designated by Director of Public Prosecutions under section 71(4), of the Act.]

I hereby give written notice that the Crown will not pursue criminal proceedings against [name of witness] of [address] for any of the following offences committed in the circumstances described by [name of witness] in the course of [an] interview given on [insert date(s)] :

Offence
Offence

Immunity from prosecution under this notice is confined to the offence set out above and on the basis of the account given by [name of witness] in the interview(s) specifically mentioned in this notice. It does not extend to offences or conduct not disclosed whether orally or in writing by the said [name of the witness] to the prosecutor prior to the giving of this notice/before entering into this agreement. Nor does it extend to offences that the witness may commit after this notice is signed.

The grant of immunity from prosecution is made and remains conditional on [name of witness] satisfying and continuing to satisfy each of the conditions set out below.

[Name of witness] must admit participation in the offence(s) described in paragraph 3 of this notice.

[Name of witness] must provide the investigator with all facts, statements, documents, evidence or any other items ('Information') available to him/her relating to the said offence(s) and the existence and activities of all others involved.

[Name of witness] shall maintain continuous and complete cooperation throughout the investigation of the said offence(s) and until the conclusion of any criminal proceedings arising as a result of the investigation. Such cooperation includes but is not limited to [Name of witness]:

voluntarily and without prompting, providing the investigators with all Information that becomes known to him/her or available to him/her relating to the said offence(s), in addition to any such Information already provided;
providing promptly, and without the prosecutor using powers under any section of the Act, all Information available to him/her wherever located, requested by the investigator in relation to the said offence(s), to the extent that it has not already been provided;
giving truthful evidence in any court proceedings arising from the investigation of the said offence(s).
(Include only if offender prosecuted for other matters.) Failure to comply with the terms of this agreement may also result in any sentence of the court that [name of witness] has received in relation [specify offence and date of sentence if applicable] being referred back to the court for review pursuant to section 74 of the Act.

This immunity notice will cease to have effect if [name of witness] fails to any extent to comply with any of the conditions specified in the notice. In particular, if the Specified Prosecutor determines that the conditions set out in this notice have not been fully complied with, or that [name of witness] knowingly or recklessly provided Information that is false or misleading in a material particular to the investigator or prosecutor, or conspired with or procured another so to do, the specified prosecutor may revoke the grant of immunity from prosecution. On revocation, the grant of immunity will cease to have effect and any Information provided by [name of witness] may be used against him/her in criminal proceedings and/or recovery actions under Part 5 of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002.

Irrespective of whether, the specified prosecutor has revoked the grant of immunity, all Information provided to the investigator by [name of witness] shall remain in the possession of the investigator.

This notice sets out all of the terms and conditions on which the grant of immunity from prosecution to [name of witness] for the said offence(s). It supersedes all prior understandings, if any, from whatever source whether oral or written, relating to the said offence(s).

The signatories below acknowledge acceptance of the terms and conditions set out above which shall only take effect when both parties have signed this letter in duplicate, one original to be retained by each party.

Signed by the witness Signed by the Specified Prosecutor

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/...ious_organised_crime_and_police_act_2005/#a13
 
  • #824
Britlaws:

Many thanks for the above information. Hmm! As in much of the law it's never that clear. I would say Tongo has met the first condition as outlined. The others would be debatable as lying about the activities of others e.g. SD, could be considered a breach. As could the issue of who had a gun. I would guess Tongo had some legal advice before testifying as he has been careful not to commit to any pertinent facts. We've yet to hear Monde's version of his involvement. Thanks again. :star2:
 
  • #825
Britlaws:

Many thanks for the above information. Hmm! As in much of the law it's never that clear. I would say Tongo has met the first condition as outlined. The others would be debatable as lying about the activities of others e.g. SD, could be considered a breach. As could the issue of who had a gun. I would guess Tongo had some legal advice before testifying as he has been careful not to commit to any pertinent facts. We've yet to hear Monde's version of his involvement. Thanks again. :star2:

It would be very difficult to prove if any of them have lied, as there is not much to go on, apart from what each of them are saying - whose version is correct to be able to call another's a lie? It's not like we have Tongo saying he didn't do something and there being DNA or CCTV proving he did. Same with Mbolombo, its just going to be different versions, with nobody able be confident that any of them are true. It would be nice if Mbolombo royally stuffed himself on the stand but there is little likelihood of that really.
 
  • #826
  • #827
Very weird day(s) in court!
 
  • #828
Nothing more on ''stay away from Tombo's family'' in the press from what I can see -- he made that request at the beginning of proceedings this week.
 
  • #829
Leigh-Anne Jansen ‏@LA_JANSEN 38s38 seconds ago

Tongo: Before I respond, I request My Lady, to tell the journalist by the name of Fani, to stay away from my family.


I am bumping this up.........these were first words out of Tongo's mouth at the beginning of proceedings on Monday.....I am more than curious about this.....MOO.....

could it be that there is something else going on behind the scenes and he's just wanting this trial over and done because someone has threatened his family??? hmmmmm -

is he intimating that there is a possibility of witness tampering????
 
  • #830
I am bumping this up.........these were first words out of Tongo's mouth at the beginning of proceedings on Monday.....I am more than curious about this.....MOO.....

could it be that there is something else going on behind the scenes and he's just wanting this trial over and done because someone has threatened his family??? hmmmmm -

is he intimating that there is a possibility of witness tampering????

There is definitely something else going on behind the scenes IMO. But I can't figure out what it is.
 
  • #831
  • #832
was thinking it could be 'gang' influence -- not saying this is the case but there seems to be something that is making him ''forget'' details


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Numbers_Gang

So who is to gain if Tongo "forgets" details? I was wondering whether one of the Dewanis has offered a bribe to Tongo's family so, as they wish to benefit, Tongo has been told to give confusing evidence.

I have tried to find a journalist named "Fani" and can't find anyone.
 
  • #833
Did you know this? Initially Dewani denied to the police that he had ever been to South Africa before. But they checked his passport and he had not been there since 2006. But he claimed to the BBC that he knew the area well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12229112
 
  • #834
was thinking it could be 'gang' influence -- not saying this is the case but there seems to be something that is making him ''forget'' details


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Numbers_Gang

I would have thought the press would have picked up on the fact Tongo said for Fani to stay away from his family especially saying this person is a journalist.
I noticed Tongo is becoming more evasive when questioned about others involved in the murder, so did think he could be being threatened.

They do all seem to form gangs in prison and on the outside too. This is a little out of context, but I do know that most take the law into their own hands. I saw with my own eyes one man only stole a few items off a washing line and all the locals in the area chased him and upon capture tied him to a tree put a tyre around his neck and set fire to him.
I know it sounds unbelievable but this happened right across from my house. Nothing really shocks me anymore, I have seen some terrible things.
This was in Mozambique, but it also goes on in S.A.

moo
 
  • #835
Did you know this? Initially Dewani denied to the police that he had ever been to South Africa before. But they checked his passport and he had not been there since 2006. But he claimed to the BBC that he knew the area well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12229112



I found the reference to prior travel in this wiki article and there was an allegation that SD may have participated in this sort of hire before (footnotes 49 and 50)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Anni_Dewani
 
  • #836
was thinking it could be 'gang' influence -- not saying this is the case but there seems to be something that is making him ''forget'' details


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Numbers_Gang

Fascinating reading how these gangs started and homosexuality is involved. Right up Dewani's street, lol. I agree, there must be pressure Tongo is receiving while in prison.
He has said many times during his cross, that at the time of meeting the Dewanis' he was in a 'critical state', I wish he could expand on this. I'm wondering does he mean financial strife only or was he suffering from a mental/emotional disturbance? Whatever it was, he feels free of it now. jmo

So who is to gain if Tongo "forgets" details? I was wondering whether one of the Dewanis has offered a bribe to Tongo's family so, as they wish to benefit, Tongo has been told to give confusing evidence.

I have tried to find a journalist named "Fani" and can't find anyone.

Dewani benefits the most, I've read that he could be going home within days, so unless the PT bring out the smoking gun, it's all over. It is a dm article but I think pretty close to the truth. I wouldn't be surprised if SD has bribed Tongo, helped his family? Tongo was the linchpin in the whole case brought against Dewani, his inconsistencies will cost the trial.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ase-crumbles-key-witnesses-fail-convince.html

The second person that has benefited from Tongo and Qwabe's testimony is Monde, they've both downplayed his role in the hijacking even though van Zyle keeps persisting that Monde is a major player. Monde obviously has connections, Tongo and Qwabe's life may be at risk or even their families. jmo
 
  • #837
Did you know this? Initially Dewani denied to the police that he had ever been to South Africa before. But they checked his passport and he had not been there since 2006. But he claimed to the BBC that he knew the area well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12229112

Dewani is such a liar, the way his defence goes on how naive he is about travel, like he's never been out of the U.K. And his attitude during this trial makes me angry. He even had the audacity to lean over and look at what Tongo was circling with a pen on his statement! :mad:

I would have thought the press would have picked up on the fact Tongo said for Fani to stay away from his family especially saying this person is a journalist.
I noticed Tongo is becoming more evasive when questioned about others involved in the murder, so did think he could be being threatened.

They do all seem to form gangs in prison and on the outside too. This is a little out of context, but I do know that most take the law into their own hands. I saw with my own eyes one man only stole a few items off a washing line and all the locals in the area chased him and upon capture tied him to a tree put a tyre around his neck and set fire to him.
I know it sounds unbelievable but this happened right across from my house. Nothing really shocks me anymore, I have seen some terrible things.
This was in Mozambique, but it also goes on in S.A.

moo

Shocking KC, how awful for you to experience such an atrocity. :hug:
 
  • #838
B1qtpNAIEAAQOa7.jpg


kevinjohnbrandt ‏@kevinjohnbrandt@ANN7tv 8 minutes ago

The Hindocha family arriving at court
 
  • #839
EWN Reporter ‏@ewnreporter 5m5 minutes ago

A later start to proceedings today. Legal teams take their seats, its almost time.

Van Zyl resumes: Just another loose point, it was pointed out your telephone number on Monde's phone is under the name Robert
 
  • #840
wrt to SD circling items of Tongo's statement I believe he was using different colored pens (direct reference to that in the gang article too - different colors assigned to individual gang members) ..... small detail but sent chills when I read the article on gangs.
 
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