South Africa - Anni Dewani, 28, shot to death, Gugulethu, 13 Nov 2010 #4

[newone]

1239
During break, there is a discussion between defence's Piet Botha and State's Adriaan Mopp. They were in a little huddle with the Hindochas too.
1240
MM, looking grave, sighs and walks back into court. Lauren hears MM might ask for postponement.
Court adjourns until 14:15.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/LIVE-Dewani-in-court-day-17-20141107



2:15 pm leaves little time for testimony on a Friday......

 

[Britlaws]

No I didn't see it, I'll look and see if it's on i-player. I've never been to SA, only spoken to friends/family who have, and they loved it as holiday makers. One friend from SA (mum and dad doctors) went back and said the same as you about the townships. I can remember in the 80's my work union promoting the ANC with great hopes for the country. So much for that.

Most tourists go to glittering Cape Town and do the glittering wine route and its all lovely but literally yards away are endless people living in appalling conditions. Many are decent hard working people who are trying their best. The bloke that SD first found that night to raise the alarm right near to where he left Tongo's vehicle was a government auditor. Here that would be a professional job and no one doing it would expect to be forced to live in an area such as he has to.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Just a quick point (re the map above), it isn't unusual for tourists to go all the way to Somerset West/Strand or somewhere along False Bay from Cape Town for dinner. We did it twice in a week. There are some lovely restaurants along there and we were recommended 2 by friends living in Cape Town, who took us. We went to one near Somerset West and one at the other end of the bay in Simons Town.

ETA at night.

It sounds very lovely, I've searched out some pics online, I would have once liked to travel there. I've traveled so far to Scotland, England, France, Japan, and Thailand.

I live in Australia, we travel long distances here to get anywhere, especially to the seaside, unless of course you live on the coast.

In all my travels, I didn't choose an unlicensed driver or carry large amounts of cash. I'm sure many people do though.


How this relates to Dewani, my one issue is why he had such a large amount of cash and told Tongo? Who does that? I wouldn't even do that in my own country, let alone overseas.

In his statement that he made last month, Dewani says Tongo was going to take him to the pilot on Saturday night, that's why he had the cash on him. So Dewani thinks it's reasonable to visit a pilot after 10 pm at night to pay cash for the flight on Sunday?

Even though I am on the fence, I am reasonably certain that Dewani will be found not guilty. At least, Anni's parents know her killers are behind bars, and one is dead. Small comfort, but there it is.

EDIT: Tongo was not taking Anni and SD anywhere like a restaurant, it was just a drive, they had a small meal at Surfside.

Who would drive around an impoverished neighbourhood in a foreign land after 10 pm at night? I welcome anyone to explain it to me.

SD had cancelled the 96 Winery Road Restaurant for 9.30 pm.

 

[zwiebel]

I was temporarily driven out of my house by someone with a chainsaw (working, I hasten to add). But coming back, all I can see is defence working endlessly on highlighting small inconsistencies, in order to cast doubt on the entire testimony of the witness.

When MM was asked if he thought arranging a killing was serious and if he had ever done it before, he said he had not. But if he had, and in order to be truthful revealed another killing he'd arranged, where on earth would that have left him regarding indemnity, as long as he's truthful?

I find it hard to believe MM and ZT were not involved in serious crimes previously, myself. Because it doesn't seem credible two complete innocents would jump straight into arranging a killing if they were not. Just my opinion.

 

[zwiebel]

I don't think defence has satisfactorily set out how it was of benefit to the convicted to frame Dewani at all yet. Unless I'm missing a big point, which I very well could be.....

 

[newone]

I was temporarily driven out of my house by someone with a chainsaw (working, I hasten to add). But coming back, all I can see is defence working endlessly on highlighting small inconsistencies, in order to cast doubt on the entire testimony of the witness.

When MM was asked if he thought arranging a killing was serious and if he had ever done it before, he said he had not. But if he had, and in order to be truthful revealed another killing he'd arranged, where on earth would that have left him regarding indemnity, as long as he's truthful?

I find it hard to believe MM and ZT were not involved in serious crimes previously, myself. Because it doesn't seem credible two complete innocents would jump straight into arranging a killing if they were not. Just my opinion.

bbm

thanks -- that's where I feel there is a big disconnect as well

the same kind of disconnect I feel about anyone even ''asking a cab driver'' on how to arrange a murder.

most of all am glad you clarified the chainsaw situation!!

 

[KING Charles]

That is interesting indeed. It looks as though the straightest route to the restaurant is via Gugulethu. I wonder if that would be the normal route for a taxi on its way to the restaurant.

Taxis would normally go from Cape town to the Strand via the highway N2. You can actually see some of the townships from this highway such as Langa, Guguletha and Khayelitsha.

 

[newone]

I don't think defence has satisfactorily set out how it was of benefit to the convicted to frame Dewani at all yet. Unless I'm missing a big point, which I very well could be.....

yes!

if SD is found guilty --- it's not going to reduce their sentences

 

[KING Charles]

It sounds very lovely, I've searched out some pics online, I would have once liked to travel there. I've traveled so far to Scotland, England, France, Japan, and Thailand.

I live in Australia, we travel long distances here to get anywhere, especially to the seaside, unless of course you live on the coast.

In all my travels, I didn't choose an unlicensed driver or carry large amounts of cash. I'm sure many people do though.


How this relates to Dewani, my one issue is why he had such a large amount of cash and told Tongo? Who does that? I wouldn't even do that in my own country, let alone overseas.

In his statement that he made last month, Dewani says Tongo was going to take him to the pilot on Saturday night, that's why he had the cash on him. So Dewani thinks it's reasonable to visit a pilot after 10 pm at night to pay cash for the flight on Sunday?

Even though I am on the fence, I am reasonably certain that Dewani will be found not guilty. At least, Anni's parents know her killers are behind bars, and one is dead. Small comfort, but there it is.

EDIT: Tongo was not taking Anni and SD anywhere like a restaurant, it was just a drive, they had a small meal at Surfside.

Who would drive around an impoverished neighbourhood in a foreign land after 10 pm at night? I welcome anyone to explain it to me.

SD had cancelled the 96 Winery Road Restaurant for 9.30 pm.

I agree with you and find it odd that S.D. would have all that cash on him. I must have been to S.A. at least on thirty trips and would just carry a reasonable amount in cash and get it from the ATM when I need more. Even twenty years ago all credit/debit cards would be accepted.
The corruption is everywhere in S.A. One time I was in a shop and got talking to the owner of the shop and when he knew I was living in Mozambique he asked me if I would be interest in doing business with. He only wanted me to transport precious/semi precious stones from one country to the other. As you can imagine I left the shop pretty rapido. Another instance was when I was looking in a shop window and then went inside the shop to by a few items. As I was leaving the owner said as he wasn't busy he would walk me back to my hotel. When I asked him why he said while I was looking in the window a man was watching me and in fact he was still waiting outside the shop. The shopkeeper said he had seen this many times and it was becoming unsafe for lone white people to shop by themselves unless they were in an actual mall. He did walk me back to the hotel and I was very grateful to him.
This just gives some idea about how unsafe it is and why people don't walk around with lots of money.

 

[patCee]

PrimeSuspect:

Tongo was not taking Anni and SD anywhere like a restaurant, it was just a drive, they had a small meal at Surfside.

Who would drive around an impoverished neighbourhood in a foreign land after 10 pm at night? I welcome anyone to explain it to me.

SD had cancelled the 96 Winery Road Restaurant for 9.30 pm.

RSBM

The area of Surfside doesn't look as though it was worth the risk either, unless the restaurant is superb, and I don't think Anni was impressed IIRC. It looks as though it's in a lonely precinct area from the pic. Someone did post the pic earlier.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh dear. Reports coming in that Pretoria may be plunged into darkness because electrical bills haven't been paid. That won't do much for crime prevention.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-29951420

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Oh dear. Reports coming in that Pretoria may be plunged into darkness because electrical bills haven't been paid. That won't do much for crime prevention.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-29951420

Oh my! How frightening, no wonder everyone is so desperate, just to make ends meet!

38 schools have lost electricity too and won't be reconnected till bill is paid!

 

[zwiebel]

Heck, it's water too - not just electricity.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Eyewitness News ‏@ewnupdates 4m4 minutes ago Cape Town

back from lunch. Monde Mbolombo is still under cross-examination about his role in the crime

Judge: Mr Mbolombo, are you feeling better.

MM nods : yes.

Judge: If you feel uncomfortable will you tell the court?

MM: yes.


vanessa poonah ‏@vanessapoonah01#SABCNews 2m2 minutes ago

van Zyl: 10am that morning, what was discussed about a meeting?

MM: I was supposed to attend the meeting with Abongile (Qwabe) and Tongo.

 

[newone]

14:19

MM says he was confused before the adjournment.

14:18

Judge: If you feel uncomfortable will you tell the court?

MM: yes.

14:17

Judge ask MM if he feels better.

He says he is.

She asks if he is up to continuing.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/LIVE-Dewani-in-court-day-17-20141107

 

[PrimeSuspect]

vanessa poonah ‏@vanessapoonah01 #SABCNews 1m1 minute ago

Van Zyl: were you prepared to go to the meeting you had to attend? MM: at the time I was not aware of the plan, you were quite prepared to go. Why?

MM: I wanted to know how they'll do it. What time.

van Zyl: why?

MM: I wanted to know how they'll do it. To kill the lady that had to be killed.

 

[newone]

MM says he and MQ discussed things on the Saturday morning at 10am. Just before conversation with MQ, he spoke with ZT.
1422
FvZ asks if a specific time was set up for the meeting. MM says no.
1423
FvZ asks: You were going to meeting to talk about how the woman would be killed? MM: Correct.
1425
FvZ asks why MM wanted to attend meeting.

MM says he wanted to know how they would do it - "kill the lady who had to be killed".

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/LIVE-Dewani-in-court-day-17-20141107

 

[newone]

1426
FvZ: Why would you want to know?

MM: Because I was involved. I wanted to know.
1427
MM is being asked to speak up since the stenographer can't hear him.
1428
MM explains that he was curious about how they would kill Anni, that's why he was willing to attend a meeting of the killers.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/LIVE-Dewani-in-court-day-17-20141107

 

[PrimeSuspect]

O/T

Bob Harrod Missing ‏@findbobharrod 10m10 minutes ago

#OscarPistorius lawyers will oppose state's appeal. Hope #DewaniTrial doesn't drag out like this.


Oscar Pistorius's legal team intends to oppose the State's application to appeal the athlete's conviction and five-year sentence.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Oscar-legal-team-to-oppose-States-appeal-20141107


He could be out by his birthday or Christmas. :/

 

[patCee]

O/T

Bob Harrod Missing ‏@findbobharrod 10m10 minutes ago

#OscarPistorius lawyers will oppose state's appeal. Hope #DewaniTrial doesn't drag out like this.


Oscar Pistorius's legal team intends to oppose the State's application to appeal the athlete's conviction and five-year sentence.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Oscar-legal-team-to-oppose-States-appeal-20141107


He could be out by his birthday or Christmas. :/

Only if SD is found guilty will the same thing happen. JMO