NOT GUILTY South Africa - Anni Dewani, 28, shot to death, Gugulethu, 13 Nov 2010 #5

[PrimeSuspect]

Re Sections Underlined
I found the transcript very hard going but I did read on pages 6,7 and 14 that he discussed going to change money in the shopping mall, forgetting his passport and having to go back for it, and then going back to collect the money. However, he definitely does not say how much.

On Page 25 he says that he hit his head and shoulder when pushed out of the window and the doctor gave him something for the bruising but it seems he was not hurt much as he fell onto sand and seemingly did not need to seek further treatment. If this is true it will be verifiable. His also says his shirt was dirty.

Whilst I think he has a large number of questions to answer, I think there appear to be some truths in the transcript, though not enough to indicate his innocence.

I am still hoping, against all odds, that Judge T continues with the case so we can hear him cross examined.

The money exchange you've mentioned is NOT on the 13th November or in SA, so no, he doesn't talk about the money exchange on the day of Anni's murder, he talks about the pool and going for a walk. Interestingly, this money exchange before they left for South Africa which SD did at the mall, should have jogged his memory about the money exchange in Cape Town on the 13th Nov.

Why doesn't he mention going to the money exchange with Tongo? Why doesn't he mention he had organised a surprise helicopter flight for Anni on the 14th November and that's why he got the money? It's seems very strange considering he goes into great detail about food, who ate what, who got a tummy ache, just trivial nonsense. The sign of a compulsive liar.

There is no proof of any injuries and it has been verified because he wasn't seen by a doctor when he was 'rescued'. The man who rang the police when SD told him what happened straight after the hijacking, he remarked that SD was not dirty, had no sand on him whatsoever.

SD talking about the bruising on his shoulders, is just so pathetic. No wonder the Hindocha's don't believe him and are actually horrified of what this man is capable of.

There is no evidence of seminal fluid, it would have been brought up in the trial if it were true. SD at this point, had to prove he was having sex with Anni, which is nobodies business but in his little mind, it is. Him overstating this imo, proves this is what Anni was unhappy about.

3 instances that you've cited have been disproved by fact, this conversation is riddled with lies, it's so sad that justice will slip away.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Shrien Dewani trial collapse 'would be nightmare'

The family of Anni Dewani, who was murdered while on honeymoon in South Africa, has said it will be a "nightmare" if the trial of her husband does not continue.

Defence lawyers want the case thrown out, claiming a taxi driver jailed for the killing is an unreliable witness.

The judge is due to announce next Monday whether the trial will continue.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-30306528



This poor family are going through hell.


When I think aloud about SD planning his wife's murder it all seems so fantastical. What kind of man is he and why go to such lengths? Why did he tell Leopold Leisser (the German Master), he had to find a way out of the marriage? LL reassured him that he had clients who are married. SD told LL that his family would disown him if he didn't marry, is this what they said or what he surmised?

Imo, to get to the bottom of this, is to know who Shrien Dewani truly is, and maybe, after the trial is dismissed or over, some may come to light.

We've had several people comment on SD's aggression and 'looks that could kill.' We've heard it from Mr Hindocha, Sneha and Tongo. Did Anni get to see this side too? Was she afraid and alarmed by these 'looks' when their discussions became heavy? Is this why she emailed him her grievances instead of speaking face to face? When did this emotional abuse begin? Was Anni's intentions to play along till she'd arrive safely into the arms of her parents?

I don't think I've ever read of a case with innumerable glaring 'coincidences' and provable and obvious lies.

In the recorded conversation, SD asks why would he have Anni killed? He doesn't once say he loved her and he's not capable of such a thing. He goes into spending money on first class plane tickets and staying at a first class hotel proves his innocence?? lol
It reveals what a devious nature he has, if he's guilty, he's given it a lot of thought that everything should look above board. But even his brother Preyen asks questions like why not take the Hotel Limo?
I also thought why did SD want a people mover (the VW Sharan), why not use a more luxurious car especially if they're going to spend so much time in one?

Sorry for the rambling post, the transcript of the family discussion just opened things up again. I can't imagine the sorrow and anger that the Hindocha's must feel about Anni's death and the last four years. Judge Traverso so far has given them no consideration whatsoever. VZ imo, is not all that, he lied a multiple of times and his opposition is extremely weak and impotent in comparison, the irony doesn't escape me. Judge Traverso bossing Mopp and publicly emasculating him is just too much! :thinking:

JMO

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thank you for your comments but could you please link me to where these comments in the transcript have been disproved. I can see I may have misconstrued the money exchange but the comments in the transcript seem to switch back and forth between prior and post murder time frames.

I have obvious missed a lot, probably because I have only followed the trial of SD in SA. My comments were taken from the transcript of conversations made by Anni's family. It is difficult to get nearer the truth than reading what was recorded by them. I am more than happy to retract if there has been some sort of proof that he was lying. Without hearing him on the stand it would be quite difficult to judge how true or not his statements are and whether there is any verification or not. I am unsure how you can be so sure it was not Dewani's seminal fluid. There is a text from Anni to her sister saying they had sex 5 times in one day. That is a fact as we know. I see no reason to believe Anni was lying.

There are so many comments bandied about in the press that are anything but true. Take one big issue on whether SD was in SA before. It has been proved that he was not. It is extremely dangerous to attach any truth to "facts" printed in newspapers unless they are verbatim from the trial and certainly nothing reported in most of the Red Tops in the UK is worth taking as gospel.

I get the feeling you think I am supporting SD. I most definitely am not but I would like to see a trial based on fact and not innuendo. As much as anyone I would like to see justice for Anni. I think SD has a lot of questions to answer but he should not be judged only by sensational columns in newspapers.

 

[eimajjjj]

Thank you for your comments but could you please link me to where these comments in the transcript have been disproved. I can see I may have misconstrued the money exchange but the comments in the transcript seem to switch back and forth between prior and post murder time frames.

I have obvious missed a lot, probably because I have only followed the trial of SD in SA. My comments were taken from the transcript of conversations made by Anni's family. It is difficult to get nearer the truth than reading what was recorded by them. I am more than happy to retract if there has been some sort of proof that he was lying. Without hearing him on the stand it would be quite difficult to judge how true or not his statements are and whether there is any verification or not. I am unsure how you can be so sure it was not Dewani's seminal fluid. There is a text from Anni to her sister saying they had sex 5 times in one day. That is a fact as we know. I see no reason to believe Anni was lying.

There are so many comments bandied about in the press that are anything but true. Take one big issue on whether SD was in SA before. It has been proved that he was not. It is extremely dangerous to attach any truth to "facts" printed in newspapers unless they are verbatim from the trial and certainly nothing reported in most of the Red Tops in the UK is worth taking as gospel.

I get the feeling you think I am supporting SD. I most definitely am not but I would like to see a trial based on fact and not innuendo. As much as anyone I would like to see justice for Anni. I think SD has a lot of questions to answer but he should not be judged only by sensational columns in newspapers.

I totally agree. To be honest, I've found it hardgoing reading this thread as there, IMO, seems so much assumption of guilt when the evidence and common sense goes against it. The Daily Mail are all about this to grab attention and sales. Horrible media bias and they should be sued by Dewani if he comes away proven innocent.

Regarding the transcript of the family's meeting, it makes my certainty of his innocence even firmer. All these assumptions that there was no bruising, it wasn't his seminal fluid and he deliberately forgot the money exchange that day are just that, assumptions. There isn't one piece of hard evidence incriminating this man, in my opinion.

 

[Britlaws]

A justice group are petitioning the Justice Minister today with this doc https://www.scribd.com/doc/249123437/DOSSIER-ON-JUDGE-TRAVERSO-S-CONDUCT

ETA The document, the petition and the press release all found here https://www.scribd.com/mobile/users/JusticeForAnni/uploads

(Sorry, using a tablet, so these are probably mobile links).

 

[eimajjjj]

A justice group are petitioning the Justice Minister today with this doc https://www.scribd.com/doc/249123437/DOSSIER-ON-JUDGE-TRAVERSO-S-CONDUCT

ETA The document, the petition and the press release all found here https://www.scribd.com/mobile/users/JusticeForAnni/uploads

(Sorry, using a tablet, so these are probably mobile links).

Am I right in thinking then that that entire dossier is based on opinions and tweets from 3rd party journalists? Doesn't that automatically make it near farcical?

 

[Estelle]

Thank you for your comments but could you please link me to where these comments in the transcript have been disproved. I can see I may have misconstrued the money exchange but the comments in the transcript seem to switch back and forth between prior and post murder time frames.

I have obvious missed a lot, probably because I have only followed the trial of SD in SA. My comments were taken from the transcript of conversations made by Anni's family. It is difficult to get nearer the truth than reading what was recorded by them. I am more than happy to retract if there has been some sort of proof that he was lying. Without hearing him on the stand it would be quite difficult to judge how true or not his statements are and whether there is any verification or not. I am unsure how you can be so sure it was not Dewani's seminal fluid. There is a text from Anni to her sister saying they had sex 5 times in one day. That is a fact as we know. I see no reason to believe Anni was lying.

There are so many comments bandied about in the press that are anything but true. Take one big issue on whether SD was in SA before. It has been proved that he was not. It is extremely dangerous to attach any truth to "facts" printed in newspapers unless they are verbatim from the trial and certainly nothing reported in most of the Red Tops in the UK is worth taking as gospel.

I get the feeling you think I am supporting SD. I most definitely am not but I would like to see a trial based on fact and not innuendo. As much as anyone I would like to see justice for Anni. I think SD has a lot of questions to answer but he should not be judged only by sensational columns in newspapers.

As I have never had sex 5 times in one day, my take on that is that Anni is being sarcastic rather than truthful. What day was it supposed to be? I thought they would have been too busy on safari to be having sex 5 times a day.

A holidaymaker who befriended murder victim Anni Dewani in the final days of her life has claimed that her husband Shrien acted strangely on the couple’s honeymoon.

Chloe Spelling met Mrs Dewani and her husband Shrien while staying at the same luxury safari camp near South Africa’s Kruger national park.

She claimed that, though she spent more than 24 hours with the honeymooners, she never saw them kiss.

She said that on the safari Mr Dewani was annoyed at his wife taking photos of lions and told her to stop and relax, saying: ‘There’s no point taking pictures of them.’

Miss Spelling, 23, also said she was puzzled by Mr Dewani’s ‘odd’ response when she consoled him about his wife’s murder

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...South-African-holidaymaker.html#ixzz3KwGxQuOI

 

[eimajjjj]

As I have never had sex 5 times in one day, my take on that is that Anni is being sarcastic rather than truthful. What day was it supposed to be? I thought they would have been too busy on safari to be having sex 5 times a day.

A holidaymaker who befriended murder victim Anni Dewani in the final days of her life has claimed that her husband Shrien acted strangely on the couple’s honeymoon.

Chloe Spelling met Mrs Dewani and her husband Shrien while staying at the same luxury safari camp near South Africa’s Kruger national park.

She claimed that, though she spent more than 24 hours with the honeymooners, she never saw them kiss.

She said that on the safari Mr Dewani was annoyed at his wife taking photos of lions and told her to stop and relax, saying: ‘There’s no point taking pictures of them.’

Miss Spelling, 23, also said she was puzzled by Mr Dewani’s ‘odd’ response when she consoled him about his wife’s murder

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...South-African-holidaymaker.html#ixzz3KwGxQuOI

So because you've never had sex 5 times a day it means no-one else has? So because your experience of something is different to another's then their experience must be sarcasm? Really?!

 

[KING Charles]

Thank you for your comments but could you please link me to where these comments in the transcript have been disproved. I can see I may have misconstrued the money exchange but the comments in the transcript seem to switch back and forth between prior and post murder time frames.

I have obvious missed a lot, probably because I have only followed the trial of SD in SA. My comments were taken from the transcript of conversations made by Anni's family. It is difficult to get nearer the truth than reading what was recorded by them. I am more than happy to retract if there has been some sort of proof that he was lying. Without hearing him on the stand it would be quite difficult to judge how true or not his statements are and whether there is any verification or not. I am unsure how you can be so sure it was not Dewani's seminal fluid. There is a text from Anni to her sister saying they had sex 5 times in one day. That is a fact as we know. I see no reason to believe Anni was lying.

There are so many comments bandied about in the press that are anything but true. Take one big issue on whether SD was in SA before. It has been proved that he was not. It is extremely dangerous to attach any truth to "facts" printed in newspapers unless they are verbatim from the trial and certainly nothing reported in most of the Red Tops in the UK is worth taking as gospel.

I get the feeling you think I am supporting SD. I most definitely am not but I would like to see a trial based on fact and not innuendo. As much as anyone I would like to see justice for Anni. I think SD has a lot of questions to answer but he should not be judged only by sensational columns in newspapers.

I am very curious to know where it was proved that S.D. had never been to S.A. before? I hope it is not because his passport isn't stamped. Many people have two passports either legally and many illegally. Also within Africa there are countries that border with S.A. and people are passing over the borders every day illegally. There are many ways of entering into the country, the more money you are willing to offer the better your chance.
Even in countries which have very sophisticated technology at airports/border crossings people still get through and there is no trace in their passports that it happened.

 

[Britlaws]

Eimajjj - I just posted it for interest, didn't say I agreed with it

Any outsider in this case, i.e. not attending the court proceedings, has only what is reported in the media to go on. There is no verified record of the proceedings available until after the trial is over, so I guess they had no choice if they wanted to formally object. Who knows whether the reporters in question were consulted on this but I guess tweets are deemed to be in the public domain. I can't see what the urgency is. Why not just wait until at least the decision on the 8th? Then I guess they don't want SD to leave the country if the case is thrown out then.

The judge isn't immune to all this. Whatever her decision is on the 8th, there is going to be a watertight judgement to accompany it, especially if she throws it out.

 

[JudgeJudi]

That's right, there is no proof about seminal fluid, it's just SD talking out of his hat because at this point, the Hindocha's didn't know he was gay, so he had to drive it home that he was having sexual relations with Anni.

SD appears very cool, calm and collected during this meeting, trying to control it too much, finding out information, worried about what Anni said and trying to excuse anything he thinks is incriminating. JMO

The post mortem would have revealed the presence of seminal fluid. All post mortem results don't need to be revealed to the public, just like in OP's case.

 

[KING Charles]

The parents of Reeva Steenkamp today backed calls for Shrien Dewani to give evidence over the murder of Anni Dewani - supporting her parents' campaign to ensure the case is not dismissed.
Barry and June Steenkamp urged the judge to make the accused face justice on Monday, and o


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-face-justice-murder-Anni.html#ixzz3L0mjxjxA
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The post mortem would have revealed the presence of seminal fluid. All post mortem results don't need to be revealed to the public, just like in OP's case.

I agree, but son-in-law informs the family meeting that the seminal fluid was his? He gives information that isn't relevant yet omits very important pieces of information about his movements? Details no one is going to verify because this was his wife, everyone assumes they were having sex, and plenty of it. But this was before the Hindocha's found out he was gay, so in hindsight, SD was very cunning.

------------

SD knew what the Hindocha's wanted, the same as the police, but he wasn't going to give to them. Why wouldn't he tell them about the helicopter ride, the money exchange on the day of Anni's murder, the meeting with Tongo?

It's interesting also from the transcript, Mr Hindocha is asked if he met Tongo and he replied no, (nor anyone for that matter because he didn't leave the Hotel), now we know for a fact on CCTV, that SD had the chance to introduce him at the lobby of the Cape Grace Hotel. Why would an innocent person described as a gentleman, not introduce this 'lovely' Taxi driver that SD felt sorry for? Tongo was in the Taxi with Anni, Mr Hindocha had a right to meet him. :thinking:

 

[Estelle]

I am very curious to know where it was proved that S.D. had never been to S.A. before? I hope it is not because his passport isn't stamped. Many people have two passports either legally and many illegally. Also within Africa there are countries that border with S.A. and people are passing over the borders every day illegally. There are many ways of entering into the country, the more money you are willing to offer the better your chance.
Even in countries which have very sophisticated technology at airports/border crossings people still get through and there is no trace in their passports that it happened.

My guess on this is that he has a new passport which does not show his previous visit/s to South Africa.

 

[newone]

The post mortem would have revealed the presence of seminal fluid. All post mortem results don't need to be revealed to the public, just like in OP's case.

Would the PT be aware of the results?? I am referring of course to DNA

 

[Interested Bystander]

Not long now before we know what the judge intends. I do hope she doesn't throw the case out. There are many questions that cause concern and I really want to hear what SD has to say. I think you all know that I find believing newspaper reports alone very difficult. I don't want to see a guilty man freed but equally I don't want to see a man convicted on anything but factual evidence.

I have been rereading the SA court proceedings so far and am troubled by certain facts. One which I have mentioned before is that I think it very odd indeed that the money was never mentioned until fairly late on but to counter that I ask myself if he wanted out of the relationship (purportedly said to the German master) why did he not take advantage of one of the three occasions that Anni broke off the engagement. All he had to do was walk away at that point but as far as I can see it was he who wanted the relationship to continue. That, to me, is not indicative of somebody who wants the relationship over and done with by arranging a murder.

I know I have mentioned before, divorce by Hindus who have been born/educated in Europe, and have become affluent, is not uncommon when they are unhappy with their marriage. We see plenty enough in the UK. If you remember Anni had on a number of occasions mentioned divorce. There is not the stigma attached to it as once there was, unless one still lives in India where it is viewed differently, as it is between uneducated Hindus.

I see him, and he admits it, as a control freak and perfectionist but also we hear that Anni has quite a temper (rather like her father) and was very argumentative. There was no dowry and SD is financially very secure - so money doesn't enter into the equation AFAICS.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/dewani-petition-justice-ministers-hands

The video at link is worth watching, Zehir Omar talking about Section 174 applied for by the Defence, when much of the Defence relied on SD's word, which hadn't been tested. Judge Traverso leading the court to believe she would accept the S174, so Monday will be fascinating at what will happen.
At this stage, the trial will continue or be postponed indefinitely. Judge Traverso's conduct is under review also. I agree with this totally, her treatment of Mopp was way over the top. Imo, he gave up by the second day. The Hindochas deserve better than this.

If she accepts the S174, she will be wasting even more time and money as it will definitely be appealed. Imo, very poor judgment by her.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Would the PT be aware of the results?? I am referring of course to DNA

I've wondered that too. In the trial of Genesh Remy Ramsaran for the murder of his wife, Jennifer, the autopsy was revealed in court and that seminal fluid of Remy's was present.

In the family discussion transcript, SD admits his DNA wasn't taken, unfortunately, he was interrupted mid sentence of what else wasn't taken. IOW, very shoddy police work, imo.


EDIT: Ramsaran's case is in USA.

 

[JudgeJudi]

June and Barry Steenkamp have backed calls for Shrien Dewani to give evidence over the murder of Anni. Their actions support Anni’s parents’ campaign to ensure the case against him is not dismissed.

Barry and June urged the judge to make the accused face justice on Monday, and offered their condolences to Vinod and Nilam Hindocha whose daughter, like Reeva, was shot dead in South Africa.

Mr Steenkamp and Mr Hindocha have spoken on the telephone from Port Elizabeth and Cape Town and discussed similarities in their cases.

“Mr Hindocha said, ‘I am delighted that Reeva's parents have said they will support us and am very grateful for that. Mr Steenkamp and I talked about Reeva and Anni and I gave him my sympathy too. Only he and I as fathers can properly understand the pain of losing a daughter to bullets and then experience very difficult and high profile cases. Reeva's father told me 'we are both in the same boat' and that I needed to be strong. He and his family had been following our case. He hoped that we would get the right to hear the full case here and that he felt for us. I told him I am very sorry about what happened to Reeva and I know there is to be an appeal against the judge's decision in the Pistorius case and they also have our support on that’.”

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Parent...torius-calls/story-25210440-detail/story.html

 

[JudgeJudi]

Would the PT be aware of the results?? I am referring of course to DNA

I wish I knew the answer to that. As rape is so common in SA, I would have thought DNA testing would (read should) have been carried out. If fluid was present and didn't match the DNA of the co-accused, that can only mean it was SD's IMO.