NOT GUILTY South Africa - Anni Dewani, 28, shot to death, Gugulethu, 13 Nov 2010 #5

[Estelle]

Anni's parents describe SA court torture.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

 

[zwiebel]

Anni's parents are going to sue Dewani. Civil action in a UK court, where the burden of proof is much lower than in a criminal case. And Dewani will have to give evidence in that, unless he's completely foolish and/or prepared to settle out of court.

http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/VIDE...ered-wife/story-24960226-detail/story.html?87

 

[zwiebel]

Ah, sorry Estelle! I started to post the news and was called away -when I returned and finished my post, didn't realise you'd already got here with the story!

 

[zwiebel]

I'm very pleased for Anni's family about this - not for the money or the extra stress they'll have to endure, but for the fact this makes it much more likely Shrien will have to tell his version of what happened in a court of law. I strongly suspect a German sex worker may be asked - and will agree - to testify.

 

[zwiebel]

Anni's father: 'Closure is our only weapon.'

Heartbroken for these gentle people.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

 

[Estelle]

Anni's sister, Ami, makes an emotional plea

"I wonder how we are going to live our lives knowing that half of the story is missing?’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-accused-s-version-events.html#ixzz3KeCfo17U

 

[Estelle]

Anni's parents are going to sue Dewani. Civil action in a UK court, where the burden of proof is much lower than in a criminal case. And Dewani will have to give evidence in that, unless he's completely foolish and/or prepared to settle out of court.

http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/VIDE...ered-wife/story-24960226-detail/story.html?87

I don't think they will accept an out of court settlement. They said it is not just about the money. It is about hearing his side to the story.

 

[Estelle]

Ah, sorry Estelle! I started to post the news and was called away -when I returned and finished my post, didn't realise you'd already got here with the story!

Please don't apologise. Our posts vary anyway.

 

[Estelle]

I'm very pleased for Anni's family about this - not for the money or the extra stress they'll have to endure, but for the fact this makes it much more likely Shrien will have to tell his version of what happened in a court of law. I strongly suspect a German sex worker may be asked - and will agree - to testify.

...as well as the journalist. But I wonder what those receipts are about they got from the five star hotel?

 

[Estelle]

I would like them to get their lawyer to ask Dewani to name women he has had sex with. Also to get information from his previous fiancee. He would have to give proof about the helicopter trip and how could he do that?

 

[zwiebel]

I would like them to get their lawyer to ask Dewani to name women he has had sex with. Also to get information from his previous fiancee. He would have to give proof about the helicopter trip and how could he do that?

Yes, we haven't really had the chance to hear a great deal about Dewani's behaviour with other women and men, or with money, but what we have heard suggests to me that while he is prepared to 'splash' out, he is mostly careful and cautious with cash - looking after the pennies so the pounds will take care of themselves, as they say in England.

The behaviour with the helicopter trip cash seems out of character to me; and his failure to mention it initially also raises huge questions. It seems like firm circumstantial evidence to me, which is what most criminal trials consist of anyway.

 

[Estelle]

TELEGRAPH REPORTS THAT JUDGE TRAVERSO WAS "CHEERLEADING" FOR ‪#‎DEWANI‬

In a court report dated 24th November 2014, journalist Aislinn Laing of the Daily Telegraph quoted a prosecution source saying they "complained that the judge appeared to be 'cheerleading' for Mr Dewani's side."

So it is not just "trolls" on Facebook who are complaining about the bias of this judge. It is a view more widely held by this quoted prosecution source as well as a number of journalists who have been attending the 23 day trial.

It also shows that so called "legal experts" like Julian Knight are trying to pull the wool over people's eyes by pretending the bias complaint is without foundation.

The bias of this Judge has been noted far beyond Facebook groups, it goes across a number of respected journalists and into the Prosecution team too.

Traverso has to go. Dewani must have a re-trial with a neutral judge and a new prosecution team.

Applications for early discharge are common in South African trials but rarely granted. However, legal commentators believe there is a realistic chance of success in the Dewani case.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...to-highly-improbable-case-against-Dewani.html

 

[zwiebel]

One thing that I don't think? anyone is disputing that seemed a little odd in this trial - Judge Traverso's seeming to treat state as prosecution-come-court maintenance/orderlies. Mopp was held responsible and asked to sort out everything from missing paperwork to noises.

It just seemed bizarre. Judge Masipa in the Pistorius trial would often demand of the court as a whole, 'What was that noise?' or something, but I never saw the same expectation that it was prosecution's job to solve those problems. I'd love to hear what the state and defence lawyers thought of that, but I don't think we ever will.

 

[Estelle]

One thing that I don't think? anyone is disputing that seemed a little odd in this trial - Judge Traverso's seeming to treat state as prosecution-come-court maintenance/orderlies. Mopp was held responsible and asked to sort out everything from missing paperwork to noises.

It just seemed bizarre. Judge Masipa in the Pistorius trial would often demand of the court as a whole, 'What was that noise?' or something, but I never saw the same expectation that it was prosecution's job to solve those problems. I'd love to hear what the state and defence lawyers thought of that, but I don't think we ever will.

IMO the Judge just treated Mopp as if he was a court orderly! Surely someone else is responsible.
She had not respect for him.

 

[zwiebel]

I was trying to look up English case law (not getting very far, it's heavy going) because to me; if Shrien did conspire to have Anni killed on honeymoon, then reason dictates that conspiracy began with the arranging of the honeymoon, in the UK. And so he could at least face conspiracy charges there?

But at the time, he didn't know his co-conspirators so I don't think that would apply. But there might be planning/seeking to arrange a killing charges that would. Maybe.

Although that angle may be covered in advance. I seem to recollect it being stated that Shrien's brother Preyen did all the booking for the honeymoon? In which case, Shrien's disassociated himself from it completely, fortunately for him.

I also think Traverso's banning of all mention of Dewani's sexuality resulted in prosecution being unable to raise the issue of whether Shrien married her under false pretenses. I know it's been said his family were all aware and had no problem with his bisexuality or homosexuality, but perhaps the judge should have allowed herself to consider what Anni's reaction might have been? If she had married him without knowing and began to suspect the truth? And what Shrien's reaction to her suspicion might have been?

Also, the 'evidence' that Shrien was out about his sexuality and there was no stress around the issue, seems rather weak and retrospective, to me.

 

[Estelle]

Dewani's secretary booked most of his trip to SA according to this link

http://panoramabusted.wordpress.com/author/wodnala/

 

[patCee]

Anni's parents plan to sue SD for marrying their daughter under a false pretense after the revelations about his sexuality. Article includes 2 videos, interviews with Anni's parents.

'It was a false wedding because of who he really was... Anni would never have married Shrien if she knew the truth that he was bisexual or gay

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-lied-gay-sex-prostitutes-bisexual-past.html

 

[newone]

Anni's parents plan to sue SD for marrying their daughter under a false pretense after the revelations about his sexuality. Article includes 2 videos, interviews with Anni's parents.







http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-lied-gay-sex-prostitutes-bisexual-past.html

this makes my day

 

[Interested Bystander]

Sadly I think Anni's parents will not get any satisfaction from trying to take Diwani to court. Anni was a mature woman of 32 and quite capable of making her own decisions. Her parents have absolutely no legal right over any of her actions, marriage included. Also she was encouraged to go through with the wedding by a family member. Very sad though it is for them, I think it will only drag out their suffering and cost them an enormous amount of money and they will gain nothing.

The best thing that could happen is that Traverso does an about turn (if she is thinking of throwing the case out) and let everyone hear what he has to say. However, he can still refuse to take the stand and she will probably end up throwing the case out whatever happens.

 

[patCee]

Anni's parents' reasons in suing for the cost of the wedding (£200,000) may be valid within Indian culture, but I assume they will do this within the UK or Sweden, and if it will be recognised outside of India. I believe that in India this could be valid. Although the dowry arrangement is illegal in India now, my understanding is that indian families avoid this law by avoiding the word dowry and calling it wedding expenses.

3. Penalty for giving or taking dowry.-(1) If any person, after the commencement of this Act, gives or takes or abets the giving or taking of dowry, he shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than five years, and with the fine which shall not be less than fifteen thousand rupees or the amount of the value of such dowry, whichever is more:

http://wcd.nic.in/dowryprohibitionact.htm

In most other crimes, including murder, Indian jurisprudence puts the burden of proof on the complainant and the accused is considered innocent till proven guilty. However, in the case of dowry related offences, a husband and his family have to prove that they did not make dowry demands and what was given by the bride's parents were voluntary gifts. - See more at: http://indiatogether.org/manushi/issue148/dowry.htm#sthash.5d4eX5mR.dpuf

http://indiatogether.org/manushi/issue148/dowry.htm

Dowry in Europe continued through Victorian England.[2] It was seen as an early payment of her inheritance, and as such only daughters who had not received their dowry were entitled to part of the estate when their parents died. If a couple died without children, the dowry reverted to the bride's family.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Dowry

In some countries, dowry has been outlawed due to the female death toll associated with it, but the practice remains legal in Britain.
It seems there have also been court proceedings in the UK in dowry related deaths of women.

Usha Sood, a barrister who works in Nottingham and has dealt with around 50 cases of dowry violence in the past year, said: “If police and coroners were trained to know about this, a proportion of unexplained deaths involving immigrant women would become explained.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...wry-violence-that-shames-britain-9803009.html

So whilst the Hindocha's may be claiming the money was for the wedding, was it really a dowry? It sounds as though he will sue for 'false representation' due to SD's sexuality. Who knows, but it does sound as though the Dewani's were given the money and supposedly organised the financial side of the wedding with it, or why would the Hindochas be asking for receipts to show how the money was spent. Seems strange to me as I'd have thought that Anni's family would have organised and paid for the wedding themselves.