South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #3

[JudgeJudi]

Thanks to a comment in chat, HvB's favourite show that he watched before the murders, One Piece, the character Sentomaru weapon of choice is an axe.

I thought I’d check out what this film is about as an axe was mentioned. First, it’s not just one movie. Second, it’s not what any of us would imagine in our wildest dreams. Do have a look at the link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_One_Piece_films

 

[JudgeJudi]

O/T

OP's maternal grandmother, Joyce Bekker, died at the age of 93 this morning.
His maternal grandfather, Leonard Arnoldus Bekker, died at the age of 90 about five years ago.

His paternal grandmother, Gerti Pistorius, died at the age of 92 at the end of last year.
The last grandparent standing, Hendrik Pistorius, will be 100 years old at the end of the month.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Could someone please put up the YouTube link for today. I imagine we'll also have it on the News24 page once things are underway.

 

[Really?]

Thanks JJ for the OP *barf* updates.
What time are we due in court today.......in minutes if you will. Ta

 

[JudgeJudi]

Today's News24 link for both streaming and live news feed, neither of which are live yet

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-31-20170811

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Hi Everybody :wave:

I'm sorry I can't do tweets today.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Thanks JJ for the OP *barf* updates.
What time are we due in court today.......in minutes if you will. Ta

17 minutes ago. Remember, they work on SA time.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Hi Everybody :wave:

I'm sorry I can't do tweets today.

Maybe Tortoise can help out when she arrives.

 

[Really?]

Morning Prime and everyone else :waiting: : )

I hope things move a little more quickly today........

 

[JudgeJudi]

Day 31

Court.State witness Sharlene Otto in background.(We're waiting on judge)

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux?lang=en

 

[Tortoise]

Morning all

Live streaming at this link

[video=youtube;DQRMlip-nKU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQRMlip-nKU[/video]

 

[JudgeJudi]

Judge Desai arrives in court, he has a query for Adv Combrink regarding document which reflects NG meaning nanogram

Desai Are the amounts on this document the input DNA?
Adv Combrink states he understands it to be input DNA

Combrink: This is the sum my expert says was put into the machine

Assessor: Is it referring to samples where 1 ng of input DNA or final DNA concentration?

Combrink:if you look at SOP-it says the amount of DNA to be amplified. SO that is not what comes out, its the input

https://twitter.com/traceyams?lang=en

 

[JudgeJudi]

This needs to amplify DNA the DNA put into it needs to be amplified so the input DNA needs to be in between those values

Otto: I would love to comment

[ How cute]

Otto: Recommended 1.25 ng. The kit components have been used successfully to samples containing less than 1.25ng

Otto: the amounts calculated by Defence expert are right but I want to refer you to pg 332

Otto: this is what I referred to, you must always put it into context. Certain normalisation takes place in certain cases and this allows us to use less than 1.25ng's

Otto: these will be the values accepted at PRC before they go through. Even less DNA in the CI samples doing your sum

Otto: we know that we can work very effectively with values less than 1ng PCR

Desai: amount of DNA more important with old techniques?
Otto:yes before PRC it was important to have big stain and lots of DNA

https://twitter.com/traceyams?lang=en

 

[Tortoise]

More and more attacks on the process and the SOPs.

I understand they are finishing at 1 today. He's got nothing.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Otto: Now we can use very little DNA. Actually PCR system likes less DNA

Otto: Again, the results we obtained, valid and the peak heights pass our cut off values easily

Combrink: Your SOP re the range of 1.25ng makes provision for less but not in the circumstances you told us prevailed

Otto: Problem with DNA, its a solution, we cant see it, the only time I know I am working with degraded DNA is at the end not the beginning of the process. Should it be degraded to such extent, we will not get a full profile or usable result

Otto: But our systems are normalised that way.

Combrink: but you have answered 3 times contrary to that

Otto: I dont mean to contradict, I have asked repeatedly for you to put your questions in context

Galloway: Objects question asked and answered several times.
Desai: he is repeating himself
[and don't we know it]

Galloway: I left it because the witness can clearly stand up for herself


Combrink trying again- referring to another SOP

Combrink: for every kit you have, there is a different SOP. Otto: the SOP needs to be put in context u cant pin point one

Combrink: Lets deal with process, PCR is the first process?
Otto: you obviously know, yes it is the original process

https://twitter.com/traceyams?lang=en

 

[JudgeJudi]

Combrink: asks Otto to work out a PCR calculation example.

Otto: It's not important we never calculate the volumes of ng per micro liter for PCR

Otto: the sample values will go automatically, if not enough DNA it is rejected the system is set up that way

Otto: the only thing calculated is the volume of your extraction DNA mix

Otto: So dont confuse the court with all kinds of calculations, its not important

[Sharlene is just amazing. You tell him luv]]

Otto: When I get a full profile mixture result, I will use it irrespective of the concentration

Otto:in this instance a family of 5 victims attacked in family home you expect to find blood on the scene. Blood was on the scene

5 members all attacked we expect to find family DNA in those samples so I am not trying to get to a result. Nobody before me knows what they are working for. They cannot change it the DNA is there

Combrink- but in accordance with the SOP's

Desai: These are guidelines?
Otto yes they will need to change as technology does

Combrink: putting it to Otto that she is wrong again

Combrink: You hid behind SOP's yesterday, and you got the answer wrong against 129 other labs

Galloway objects: No witness did not say she got anything wrong .
Desai: put it to the witness again, I think Galloway right

Otto: proficiency tests the whole process in this instance the lab passed proficiency and every analyst passed along the way

https://twitter.com/traceyams?lang=en

 

[JudgeJudi]

Combrink: when it suits you the SOP's are unequivocal, when it doesnt suit you they are a guideline

Desai: put the question to the witness properly

Desai: Do different countries have different rules?

Otto: If its the same PCR kit used every where, its the user manual for that kit that stays same, labs may have different instrument

Otto: platforms, or different humidities, temperatures

Otto: This is part of why we do proficiencies. We do not work in isolation. If I do profile here and the same profile overseas

Combrink: QPCR and PCR are different processes?
Otto; yes they are different but QPCR is dependant on PCR

Combrink: PCR process has own SOP?
O: yes and QPCR process has own SOP? O:yes

https://twitter.com/traceyams?lang=en

 

[Interested Bystander]

Morning (in UK ) Just listening to C making a fool of himself. This argument is dead in the water.

What is really aggravating is that C seems to have no real reason for questioning the results of the DNA analysis other than being obstructive. Where is his evidence, which would create a valid argument, that he has reasons to believe HvB's family samples are invalid.

Maybe I am being a bit "previous" but we seem to have spent 3 days getting nowhere.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Combrink moves to next point perhaps not relating directly to Otto

Captain Joubert does his own preliminary work for testing blood example its a ER function which will fall under our SOP's

Otto: I was asked about colour coding. Red lab, evidence recovery, Blue lab PCR and green post

Otto: they have different coats they must wear and certain prescribed PPE

https://twitter.com/traceyams?lang=en

 

[Hag]

Could one say the Defence is "clutching at straws"?