Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #1

[PeggyHenry]

Esther Dingley: Police believe missing British hiker went missing voluntarily | Daily Mail Online

Yet another DM update - rehashing various others. The only couple of bits that interest me are:

1.Maria-Carmen told MailOnline: ‘Esther wanted to buy a packet of Chia seeds which were discounted. But you only get the discount if you have the Eroski loyalty card.

‘The girl at the till tried to explain this to her but she not understand because she did not speak Spanish.

‘So the girl called me and I came to explain this to her. She said that didn’t matter and bought the seeds any way. We didn’t have a long chat because I was on my way to work but she seemed a sad, thoughtful.’

2.
Sources close to the case insist the person pictured in the Chausson van late at night was not Mr Colgate, with whom she has been travelling with for six years.

Spanish police have dismissed the sighting in the Spanish resort of Benasque, but Matt Searle, spokesman for Esther’s family and Mr Colgate, told MailOnline: ‘Daniel and Esther’s family are extremely interested to find out who was inside the camper with the lights on.'

‘We are investigating the sighting of someone inside the van on 2 December. They are asking the Guardia Civil to investigate who it was as well.’

 

[PeggyHenry]

If it were me, I wouldn't waste daylight to stop and send a photo. I would wait until I was settled in for the night.

Well, I think I would probably take a selfie just to show I'd got to the peak, and post it on to whatsapp - it only takes 30 secs to do all of that. But then I'd be anxious to be on my way. How much daylight was remaining ? Let's say 1 .5 hours worth? Enough to get to the refuge, but not enough to descend.. (I think I'm correct in saying that). I would definitely be heading to the refuge.


Vigo is quoted as saying “She was coming up, we were on the descent, she was very heavily loaded with a very big backpack.”
I think it is slightly odd to carry such a large backpack when climbing like that.. but again, I dont know what is considered normal.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Esther Dingley: Police believe missing British hiker went missing voluntarily | Daily Mail Online

Yet another DM update

RSBM

I feel awful for Esther’s partner & family members who are not only having to deal with her disappearance, but also quite frankly downright fabulated sensationalist “reporting” .

 

[otto]

Esther Dingley: Police believe missing British hiker went missing voluntarily | Daily Mail Online

Yet another DM update - rehashing various others. The only couple of bits that interest me are:

1.Maria-Carmen told MailOnline: ‘Esther wanted to buy a packet of Chia seeds which were discounted. But you only get the discount if you have the Eroski loyalty card.

‘The girl at the till tried to explain this to her but she not understand because she did not speak Spanish.

‘So the girl called me and I came to explain this to her. She said that didn’t matter and bought the seeds any way. We didn’t have a long chat because I was on my way to work but she seemed a sad, thoughtful.’

2.
Sources close to the case insist the person pictured in the Chausson van late at night was not Mr Colgate, with whom she has been travelling with for six years.

Spanish police have dismissed the sighting in the Spanish resort of Benasque, but Matt Searle, spokesman for Esther’s family and Mr Colgate, told MailOnline: ‘Daniel and Esther’s family are extremely interested to find out who was inside the camper with the lights on.'

‘We are investigating the sighting of someone inside the van on 2 December. They are asking the Guardia Civil to investigate who it was as well.’

Regarding the person in the van, Esther would have locked up when she left. We haven't heard anything about a damage door or lock, so it seems that whoever was in the van had a key. Her partner provided keys to police, so someone with police was very likely in the van. Alternatively, but unlikely, police were in the van, left it unlocked, and someone else went in. If someone did something to Esther, it's unlikely that the same person then found her van and spent time in it.

 

[PeggyHenry]

On that basis it seems very unlikely that a third party was involved in some sort of foul play. The hikers she met on the way did not report they had seen anyone else up there, they haven’t reported that someone else passed them in the same direction as the pic. In addition they have then got to do their foul deed, cleanup and hide any and all evidence and not be seen coming down themselves. There can’t have been many people that even knew she’d be up there so unless she just happened across someone prepared to commit serious crime (and then again, cleanup and hide all evidence) without any motive I can’t see a third party being involved. They would have to have means, motive and opportunity.

If she did encounter someone on the way to the refuge (willingly or unwillingly) it doesn't necessarily mean they engaged in foul play there are then (or even at all). Could they not have gone off together, for example, in another direction.. following another path? Or were the only options to go to the refuge or down the mountain. I should probably know this and will try and look again at the maps. What I'm getting at is there need not have been evidence of presence at the refuge - if someone wanted to meet Esther they could have met her and just carried on walking with her in some direction.

 

[Grouse]

It would be interesting to know what she didn't take, for example; where are all her 'everyday' clothes and shoes, and personal things like her passport? I think Dan will know whether there is anything amiss in that respect.

<snipped by me>

I'm not sure whether she would have needed her passport to nip over into Spain, but may have needed it for ID maybe at some of the larger refuges she used, which seem more like hostels. If not, in her position I would have left it at the farmhouse for safety. If it was needed on the trip again personally, I'd have it on me I wouldn't risk leaving it in a campervan which could get broken into.

If she did leave it at the farm it makes a planned disappearance seem less likely.

We also have the confusion that the photo Dan published, seemingly taken from the top on 22nd, appears to have actually been taken the previous day.

No, I think that issue has been cleared up and discussed earlier on this thread. She made two ascents of Sauvegarde, on 21st and 22nd. There are major differences in the position of the sun, and also there were pictures posted on IG on 21st.

 

[RickshawFan]

Knowing Esther was asking for fresh fruit - maybe she was in need of water or refreshment and not being a mountain hiker, how do you fill your water bottle? What I mean to say is - do you try and get water from a lake? I'm not familiar with how hikers keep hydrated.

I use an MSR filter. Lightweight hikers these days often use a set up where you fill a water bladder with the dirty water and then squeeze the water through the filter. Alternatively, they hang the dirty water bag upside down, and let the water drip through the filter and into a clean water bottle.
Sometimes people use tablets or UV light.
All of these methods (except a set up like the one I use) requires reaching over to fill a bottle. You could tie the bottle to a piece of cord, fling the bottle into the lake and then fish it out, but I’ve tried this myself (so I could get water a few feet away from shoreline) and found it maddening.
IMO the odds that ED fell in while getting water are substantial. Several Osprey pack designs pull your weight back and away from your core. The one ED has is one of those styles. The pack could very easily have toppled her over because of how it’s designed.
I want to make clear this is different from saying “she was carrying a heavy pack and this facilitated an accident.” IMO ED’s pack was not heavy. It looks way bigger than it is, because of the design. It has a big air scoop against the back. This is the “catastrophe waiting to happen” that I’m referring to. With all that air against the back, the heavy stuff sits away from the core. Just a little nudge, and you can be thrown backwards. You may have seen people on the trail with packs like these: they jerk with every step.

I mentioned that ED’s pack was not as heavy as other posters are thinking. She had ultralight gear. She evidently wasn’t carrying much food, so very little food weight. She may not have been carrying much water, expecting to re-supply at the refuge. I reckon the pack weighed max 25 lbs.

I mentioned the Osprey scooped pack design might make a person tip over if there was a stumble, trip, slip, or reach over water, but another way to have this happen, I suppose, would be while you were putting it on, especially if you flung it and didn’t lift the weight over your core. Suppose she got a little wild and unthinking while she put it on in a dangerous spot?

She might even have taken her pack off if she stopped to pee.... Some women do this.

Edited to correct for fact.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

<snipped by me>

I'm not sure whether she would have needed her passport to nip over into Spain, but may have needed it for ID maybe at some of the larger refuges she used, which seem more like hostels. If not, in her position I would have left it at the farmhouse for safety. If it was needed on the trip again personally, I'd have it on me I wouldn't risk leaving it in a campervan which could get broken into.

If she did leave it at the farm it makes a planned disappearance seem less likely.



No, I think that issue has been cleared up and discussed earlier on this thread. She made two ascents of Sauvegarde, on 21st and 22nd. There are major differences in the position of the sun, and also there were pictures posted on IG on 21st.

Yes, but why not take a "today" photo and send that? The photo she sent was from the previous day, I believe. I can see why there is a question mark over whether she definitely went right up to the top on 22nd. And, I wonder if that would be a normal thing for her to do - climb the same mountain twice. It was a "one way up one way down" mountain, so not necessary for her route. A side show or optional extra, if you like.

 

[Grouse]

I mentioned the Osprey scooped pack design might make a person tip over if there was a stumble, trip, slip, or reach over water, but another way to have this happen, I suppose, would be while you were putting it on, especially if you flung it and didn’t lift the weight over your core. Perhaps ED’s accident happened in the next few minutes after she sent her last post/message. She was not wearing the pack in her last photo. Suppose she got a little wild and unthinking while she put it on in a dangerous spot?

<snipped by me)

I think the photo where she isn't wearing her pack is from 21st.

If she made it down to those lakes on the 22nd she would have been almost at the Refuge de Venasque which has running water Refuges des Pyrénées - REFUGE DE VÉNASQUE (FFCAM) (2249 m) so I wouldn't expect her to be filtering water from the lake.

I do agree there's a good chance she's in the lake though, possibly from a fall on the descent as I've mentioned earlier.

 

[RickshawFan]

What I mean to say is - do you try and get water from a lake? I'm not familiar with how hikers keep hydrated.
.......
Unless desperate you would always try to find flowing/running/spring water ...

Me? In desperation, I’ve filtered water out of a mud puddle. It came out crystal clear and lovely tasting. Would I do that enthusiastically? Not if I could find another source, but I’m confident that it could be done.
Using water from a lake so that it could be used for filtering? That’s precisely what you do. Of course, you’re likely to want to get as “nice” a water as possible, so you might reach for it ..... BOOM! Disaster.
ED might not have had a filter. She could have used another method or nothing. These possibilities would be even more prone to catastrophe, as you’d extend yourself to try and get water with no silt, runoff or other scuzzies.

 

[PeggyHenry]

I think she did send Dan a today photo on 22nd. The sun is lower on that one and consistent with her being up there late afternoon. In the pics on IG from the 21st the sun is much higher, the radio mast appears to cast no shadow so middle of the day possibly.

So if she had climbed this mountain the previous day, and then decided to repeat the same climb - she must have deliberately decided to set out much later in the day on the 22nd - maybe knowing she would go to the refuge to sleep - maybe because she had a meeting planned with someone? It does seem slightly odd to repeat the same climb - it is possible (although maybe unlikely) that someone said ' looks great - meet you up there tomorrow ..'

So many possible options and puzzling things

 

[patCee]

Esther Dingley: Police believe missing British hiker went missing voluntarily | Daily Mail Online

Yet another DM update - rehashing various others. The only couple of bits that interest me are:

1.Maria-Carmen told MailOnline: ‘Esther wanted to buy a packet of Chia seeds which were discounted. But you only get the discount if you have the Eroski loyalty card.

‘The girl at the till tried to explain this to her but she not understand because she did not speak Spanish.

‘So the girl called me and I came to explain this to her. She said that didn’t matter and bought the seeds any way. We didn’t have a long chat because I was on my way to work but she seemed a sad, thoughtful.’

2.
Sources close to the case insist the person pictured in the Chausson van late at night was not Mr Colgate, with whom she has been travelling with for six years.

Spanish police have dismissed the sighting in the Spanish resort of Benasque, but Matt Searle, spokesman for Esther’s family and Mr Colgate, told MailOnline: ‘Daniel and Esther’s family are extremely interested to find out who was inside the camper with the lights on.'

‘We are investigating the sighting of someone inside the van on 2 December. They are asking the Guardia Civil to investigate who it was as well.’

Re 1. In the few days leading up to ED's disappearance she had direct encounters with 7 people that we are aware of because they have spoken out.
The woman in the shop who initiated contact; the mystery hiker who initiated contact, I think; the manager of a refuge, doing his job: the Olympic skier and partner, with whom Esther may have initiated briefcontact; Mr Ballarin (experienced hiker) and grandson, who initiated contact:
Apart from the woman in the shop who thought ED was sad, and unusual to see her practising yoga outside. Other descriptions of Esther were:- intelligent; capable; not someone to worry about; relaxed and happy, no unusual behaviour;
No indication that Esther would have harmed herself. Indications that she was more than capable of managing the terrain where she was hiking, and one that was familiar to her by the time she disappeared. Would she really have succumbed to a lake.
I think it's clear that Esther presented in a positive way, and a person who responded positively to others. It was a quiet time in the mountains due to the time of year. Nevertheless I guess there were others she spoke to. Were there
others staying at the Refuge? Although people have said accepting lifts is a cultural thing for hikers, how to judge when it's not safe is tricky. Did the wrong person see her practising yoga alone

 

[ZaZara]

Well, I think I would probably take a selfie just to show I'd got to the peak, and post it on to whatsapp - it only takes 30 secs to do all of that. But then I'd be anxious to be on my way. How much daylight was remaining ? Let's say 1 .5 hours worth? Enough to get to the refuge, but not enough to descend.. (I think I'm correct in saying that). I would definitely be heading to the refuge.


Vigo is quoted as saying “She was coming up, we were on the descent, she was very heavily loaded with a very big backpack.”
I think it is slightly odd to carry such a large backpack when climbing like that.. but again, I dont know what is considered normal.

Sunset on 22 November in Benasque was at 5.29 PM.
If ED was on the top of the Salvaguardia around 04 o'clock, this would leave her with 1.5 hours of daylight.

The refuge is the logical destination, yet she never got there.

 

[Sjm_qc]

<snipped by me>

I'm not sure whether she would have needed her passport to nip over into Spain, but may have needed it for ID maybe at some of the larger refuges she used, which seem more like hostels. If not, in her position I would have left it at the farmhouse for safety. If it was needed on the trip again personally, I'd have it on me I wouldn't risk leaving it in a campervan which could get broken into.

If she did leave it at the farm it makes a planned disappearance seem less likely.



No, I think that issue has been cleared up and discussed earlier on this thread. She made two ascents of Sauvegarde, on 21st and 22nd. There are major differences in the position of the sun, and also there were pictures posted on IG on 21st.

Regarding passport/ID: she could have driven across from France to Spain on just a drivers’ license (I’d have had my passport handy just in case, but that’s just me).

For the hiking, she was *In Spain*. The trail she is assumed to have been hiking or intended to hike dips briefly into France, then back into Spain. There are no border controls up in the mountains, nor is a passport required for EU citizens between Spain and France.

Regarding the refuge she was putatively heading for/intending to stay at or near: it is “unmanned” from October to Mid-June, so again no need for passport or ID. Same for “manned” hostels, no need to carry a passport for EU citizens (although many do).

 

[Grouse]

So if she had climbed this mountain the previous day, and then decided to repeat the same climb - she must have deliberately decided to set out much later in the day on the 22nd - maybe knowing she would go to the refuge to sleep - maybe because she had a meeting planned with someone? It does seem slightly odd to repeat the same climb - it is possible (although maybe unlikely) that someone said ' looks great - meet you up there tomorrow ..'

So many possible options and puzzling things

Yes to the part I have bolded.

 

[patCee]

If she did encounter someone on the way to the refuge (willingly or unwillingly) it doesn't necessarily mean they engaged in foul play there are then (or even at all). Could they not have gone off together, for example, in another direction.. following another path? Or were the only options to go to the refuge or down the mountain. I should probably know this and will try and look again at the maps. What I'm getting at is there need not have been evidence of presence at the refuge - if someone wanted to meet Esther they could have met her and just carried on walking with her in some direction.

But suppose she decided to come back down to her van and not continue as plaNNED.

 

[RickshawFan]

I haven't looked at the terrain maps, but I was wondering if she fell down a slope towards one of the lakes, would she most likely end up in the deep part of the lake, or just at the edge of the lake. I would think she would lose stuff during a big fall, like her walking sticks before she came to a stop. Also if she went to the edge of a body of water to get water, wouldn't she take off her backpack and walking sticks first-so they would be at the edge of the lake even if she fell in?

BBM About half the time, I’d leave my pack on while filtering water, if I was in mid-hike. Once situated for the night, my pack would be off.
ED was a risk taker and possibly wasn’t using water treatment. She also might have had her hands through the loops on her trekking poles (this also can make an accident happen), so if she fell into a lake they will have gone into the drink with her. They may also have made it impossible for her to extricate herself, stop a fall....
Think of it like this....and this applies to walking only; not fast-moving sports like skiing. If you snag your pole behind a rock while walking, or maybe get it caught in a bush, the worst thing that will happen is, you drop the pole. At least, you didn’t get your shoulder dislocated. So, pick it up. If it gets dangerously out of reach, just thank the gods it wasn’t you. Continue without it.

 

[patCee]

But suppose she decided to come back down to her van rather than continue with her previous plan.

 

[Ruthbullock]

But she didn't know whether she would have phone reception at the refuge. Seems perfectly reasonable to send her partner an "I made it to the top!" message, while she could.

The internet and phone were down for a couple of weeks in summer- but were repaired in July. They had workmen staying there recently for two weeks, so I would imagine if it had broke again someone would have noticed. Scrolling through the Facebook page, it doesn’t seem like they have problems with the WiFi and phone normally.
Refuge de venasque

 

[PeggyHenry]

Esther Dingley's photo diary feared to be timeline to tragedy after she mysteriously went missing in the Pyrenees - therussiapost

Police are using experts to examine her Instagram photos to unravel the 24 hours before she disappeared.

The last picture Esther is thought to have taken shows her at the summit, with a solar panel and a telecommunications mast on the peak reflected in her sunglasses.

EMOTIONAL STRAIN
It is slightly different from the one she posted the previous day, in that she is wearing an open-necked top and carrying a rucksack with the water tube clearly visible.

A source said: “The last photo is taken later in the day, as the shadow is higher on the slope. That would suggest she went up to the Pic de Sauvegarde twice — which leads to the question, why go up to the same spot twice in 24 hours?”