Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #1

[RickshawFan]

I am assuming she had a similar set-up to yours and that means she had to descend from the trail to the lake. It sounds easy, but I believe Montagnette Lake is the only nearby source of water (if she stayed on trail). She would have needed enough to go up to Sauvegard and then either back down to the trailhead or onward to the refuge. If she was using the "tie string

Is there water at the refuge? I'm very curious. I'm hoping someone knows. And whether people were melting snow for water before going onward.

Thank you so much for explaining the point about the air scoop (and what it does to the weight of the back). Personally, there's no way I could pee with anything but a lightweight pack. Esther had the yoga skills, so maybe 25 pounds wouldn't be too much for her.

How much water do you think she would have carried if her goal was the refuge that night?

I'm still confused about her two trips up that same, relatively accessible mountain when I thought her original plan was rather different.

In national park (US) research, going off trail to take a picture is one of the leading accident-causers for women. Sauvegarde does have a lot of picture-worthy spots along the trail.

A few questions. Let's give this a whirl. Your quotes in italics.

I am assuming she had a similar set-up to yours and that means she had to descend from the trail to the lake. It sounds easy, but I believe Montagnette Lake is the only nearby source of water (if she stayed on trail). She would have needed enough to go up to Sauvegard and then either back down to the trailhead or onward to the refuge. If she was using the "tie string

The "tie-string" jury-rig possibility raises my anxiety meter. But she might have tried it. I've tried it just once and soon got a clue. Picture this. You get a GREAT idea to get cleaner water from a lake by casting your bottle, on a string, to a nice deep, clear, section. Ha! The bottle floats! So, then what are you going to do? Frustrated and committed to that lip-smacking freshness, you do all kinds of things with your body, flap around, reach, break branches, wave your poles, magical incantations; you might even wade in.... just to get that bottle to sink so you can fill it with water and haul it to shore.

And if it's a squeezable bottle and not a hard plastic bottle, bwaahaha! You will look very funny indeed, 'cos it won't magically open itself and fill with water!

Personally, there's no way I could pee with anything but a lightweight pack. Esther had the yoga skills, so maybe 25 pounds wouldn't be too much for her.

No yoga skills required. Necessity is the mother of invention.

How much water do you think she would have carried if her goal was the refuge that night?

ED carries a Camelbak (or similar). As is likely, she has an Osprey Exos 58. This will fit a bladder of 3L.
Most women can only carry 2L in a bladder, because their backs are too short for a 3L bladder to fit in their packs.
For folks who aren't familiar, keep in mind, that water weighs approx. 2 lbs per liter.
If I were on ED's hike, I'd look ahead at where I'd be re-supplying water. If I'm going 3 hours, I might take just 2L. I'd also take a Gatorade (or some such) if it was a hot day. If I had a 3L capacity (I can't because my back is too short), I'd definitely take all 3 liters.
However, I would do all that keeping in mind my next re-supply. It sounds like for re-supply she'd have (1) back to town (2) to the refuge or (3) potentially a lake.

To me, it's alarming she tried to bum food off someone. This may indicate she was out of water or had just hear no water was available at the refuge. She might have tried to get some from a natural source.

While I'm answering this kind of question.....
Sometimes, folks assume you'd carry a lot of clothes to change into on a backpack trip. That would be VERY unwise. You would be unduly weighing yourself down for no purpose.
Consider this: You're wearing a set of very effective hiking clothes. Totally appropriate. You hike for a day, and they get stinky. But heck, you've brought another set. So you change into your other set. At the end of day two (more likely just an hour into the day 2 hike), whatcha got? 2 pairs of stinky clothes!
So, you generally take supplementary clothes, not more sets of the same thing (except for socks and one non-cotton under pants). The key is that you should be able to wear everything at the same time. In other words, you go for safety, not aroma. De rigueur would be long underwear (top and bottom); raingear (top and bottom); a spare synthetic shirt you can put under or over your hiking synthetic shirt; an insulated jacket (like down). And a light fleece. In ED's case, she would have had to have taken extra insulation for her legs (lycra tights are frigid) for safety.
That valley would be cold in the shadows.

 

[Huffbuff]

BBM Her water pouch can be seen on the table in this photo posted on the 18th Nov -

https://www.facebook.com/estheranddan/photos/p.1474636742733703/1474636742733703/?type=3

 

[Huffbuff]

BBM Her water pouch can be seen on the table in this photo posted on the 18th Nov -

https://www.facebook.com/estheranddan/photos/p.1474636742733703/1474636742733703/?type=3

.

Thanks! I /knew/ I had seen a pic of her water pouch on the table but couldn’t find it ... it was added in the comments!

 

[RickshawFan]

BBM Her water pouch can be seen on the table in this photo posted on the 18th Nov -

https://www.facebook.com/estheranddan/photos/p.1474636742733703/1474636742733703/?type=3

This photo is one of the reasons, IMO ED is well-equipped. Let me explain.

That's a VERY expensive sleeping bag. It uses ultralight fabric. You can see the down fibers right through it. This kind of bag has very high end down. This category of bag is going to be $600+. It's also nice and puffy!

The Thermarest is $100+, but could be as much as $200, depending on the model. (On a side note, if she went for a cheaper model, she'd defeat the whole purpose of that sleeping bag, and would sleep EXTREMELY cold. Most people don't know this factoid.).

As appropriate, she has a ground cloth.

She has a stove, pot, and fuel. She might even have a bowl/cup.

The red bag is prolly her food bag.

She has a lighter, presumably for the stove and the fire.

She has a water supply of some kind. She might have under-estimated how much she'd need, but that's a whole separate topic, and we have no way to answer that question.

******
Side point, she'd be bugged by mice all night in that situation!

 

[PeggyHenry]

In both lenses, where the frame curves near her nose, does anyone see 1) a black labrador type dog with white lead around neck and 2) figure of a man, with short white hair

I have had a look and I can see the head of a man..

What strikes me is Esther’s smile. It’s a lovely genuine smile. Imagine doing a selfie if you were totally alone.. in fact go through the motions. For me, I do a smile that is a smile for the sake of a selfie! Esther looks like she is genuinely smiling for someone. JMO

 

[CoverMeCagney]

In both lenses, where the frame curves near her nose, does anyone see 1) a black labrador type dog with white lead around neck and 2) figure of a man, with short white hair ?

More to the point, on the far right of the photo, is that not shadows of people? Strange rock formations if not.

 

[PeggyHenry]

More to the point, on the far right of the photo, is that not shadows of people? Strange rock formations if not.

View attachment 275408

Apologies.. I’ve now enlarged and what I thought was a man’s head was esthers hand . I see clearly what resembles a head of a Labrador with white lead and a black figure.. but I’m not totally convinced that’s what they are!

the shadows do look like shadows of people!

 

[Officer Dibble]

I have had a look and I can see the head of a man..

What strikes me is Esther’s smile. It’s a lovely genuine smile. Imagine doing a selfie if you were totally alone.. in fact go through the motions. For me, I do a smile that is a smile for the sake of a selfie! Esther looks like she is genuinely smiling for someone. JMO

Good point

 

[Grouse]

Apologies.. I’ve now enlarged and what I thought was a man’s head was esthers hand . I see clearly what resembles a head of a Labrador with white lead and a black figure.. but I’m not totally convinced that’s what they are!

the shadows do look like shadows of people!

Yes I can also see what could be a black dog's head now but it could easily be a rock. I can't see a man's head but can clearly see Esther's hand and the phone she is holding.

I commented on those shadow figures before upthread but looking at them now I'm not sure what they are. If they are shadows aren't they being cast onto the valley at the far side? Doesn't make sense, very odd.

 

[RickshawFan]

I disagree with the source. I am 100% convinced in my own judgement that the two photos were taken on the same day. The sky on the horizon seems to have an identical quality. I think even the same stray hair is glistening on her forehead, tuft of loose hair on top right of her head, and her water tube is there it's just more hidden in the second photo because of the angle of the photo. I don't believe it would have still been that bright of light at the top on the Sunday, given the time of her passing the hikers at 3pm and having more than an hour's trek ahead.

these are the two photos side by side to save searching back through the thread

I totally agree with you on this; both on the same day. On one, the black collar was rucked up, the other not. She could have got something out of her pack and put it back on. She could taken off a top and put another one on. She could have removed a layer. A thousand ways the shirts would look different, even in the span of 5 minutes.

 

[Wowno17]

Missing Esther Dingley's secrets, by the last man to see her alive Missing Esther Dingley's secrets, by the last man to see her alive | Daily Mail Online

It's a shame the DM didn't get an interview with the man's grandson who was also in the car with them, maybe he doesn't speak French.

MOO

 

[Grouse]

Not a very well translated article (and a very unfortunate translation error in the 4th paragraph from the end )- Misses Esther Dingley's secrets when the last man saw her alive – Worlds Update
but this is the only one I've seen mention divers.

"France has specialized teams of ice divers who can enter mountain lakes, but the problem in winter is getting them into position.

And without clear evidence that Esther fell into one, it would be impossible to use divers on all of the lakes in the area."

Mr. Ballarin said, "I think if you search these lakes properly with divers, there is a chance you will find Esther's body and possibly even that of other climbers who have disappeared."

 

[otto]

For clarity, I'm not saying some poles don't come with loops on the handles. AFAIK all trekking poles have webbing loops on the handles. I'm saying hikers often don't use the loops for safety reasons.
I will say, though, that the poles in that photo of ED are the style usually used for nordic skiing. With that palm grip on them, ED might have been tempted to put them over her hands, but this would be exactly problematic in an accident. If they snagged on the "wrong" trailside feature, they'd quick as a wink jettison you off the trail. And You can't get them off quickly! And what if your hand broke?
[I am speaking from experience in this and other posts in this thread about gear. I own and use both these styles of poles myself: the X-country ski version and the hiking/trekking/trail running version.]

Exactly - depends on how she used the poles, but if she had her hands in the hand loops, she couldn't dis-entangle from the poles if she fell or tumbled. I have the Leki poles with thumb and finger web grips. If I use the grips, the poles are staying on my hands even if I tumble down a mountain.

 

[ZaZara]

Not a very well translated article (and a very unfortunate translation error in the 4th paragraph from the end )- Misses Esther Dingley's secrets when the last man saw her alive – Worlds Update
but this is the only one I've seen mention divers.

"France has specialized teams of ice divers who can enter mountain lakes, but the problem in winter is getting them into position.

And without clear evidence that Esther fell into one, it would be impossible to use divers on all of the lakes in the area."

Mr. Ballarin said, "I think if you search these lakes properly with divers, there is a chance you will find Esther's body and possibly even that of other climbers who have disappeared."

my idea of a good hike! better take the elevator!

 

[otto]

In both lenses, where the frame curves near her nose, does anyone see 1) a black labrador type dog with white lead around neck and 2) figure of a man, with short white hair ?

That could be her backpack. We can see her hand holding the camera for a selfie in the lens on the left.

 

[Deleted member 277705]

That could be her backpack. We can see her hand holding the camera for a selfie in the lens on the left.

That could be her backpack ??? It has to be something in front of her to reflect an image onto the lens. Her backpack is behind her.

 

[Deleted member 277705]

It appears ED met quite a few people on the summits, although we are only aware of one or two. It is feasible that these people have given statements to their relevant LE agencies and it is also feasible that the sharing of information between the agencies is not perhaps 100%. Both LE's are not revealing or confirming who the last known person was to sight or communicate with ED, nor are they forthcoming about the time of this. The skier was not the last person to sight ED. There were others on the mountain behind him – and she was going up. Perhaps she also stopped and asked them if they had fruit etc ? The final person known to talk to or sight a missing person is absolutely crucial in such investigations.

 

[otto]

That could be her backpack ??? It has to be something in front of her to reflect an image onto the lens. Her backpack is behind her.

We can imagine that we see a man in shadow and his black dog in the image, but it has been reported as a selfie with solar panel and wifi stick.

There's her hand on the phone/camera in her glasses reflection. All reflections are consistent with the horizon, gullies, crevasses and a long sun.

 

[otto]

It appears ED met quite a few people on the summits, although we are only aware of one or two. It is feasible that these people have given statements to their relevant LE agencies and it is also feasible that the sharing of information between the agencies is not perhaps 100%. Both LE's are not revealing or confirming who the last known person was to sight or communicate with ED, nor are they forthcoming about the time of this. The skier was not the last person to sight ED. There were others on the mountain behind him – and she was going up. Perhaps she also stopped and asked them if they had fruit etc ? The final person known to talk to or sight a missing person is absolutely crucial in such investigations.

Yes, someone upthread, perhaps Grouse, apologies for not remembering, put together a list of 8 people that Esther was in contact with over a period of a couple of days, including the chia seed grocery store discount confusion.

Do you have a link to others who saw her on the trail at, or after, she was at the summit of Pic de Sauvegarde? We have a witness to her climbing the peak on Nov 22 at 4PM. According to her plan, she had 90 minutes of sunlight to hike from the peak to the hostel - apparently enough time to safely arrive a Refugio de Venasque.

It's always good to speculate that there were other witnesses, but we know that very few people were on the trails near the refugio/hostel due to covid lockdown.

 

[Deleted member 277705]

We can imagine that we see a man in shadow and his black dog in the image, but it has been reported as a selfie with solar panel and wifi stick.

There's her hand on the phone/camera in her glasses reflection. All reflections are consistent with the horizon, gullies, crevasses and a long sun.

View attachment 275434

Everything reflected in her glasses is in front of her. The backpack is behind her, so that cannot be reflected in her lens.