Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #1

[otto]

Was it you that listed the 8 people Kaykedi? Apologies for not remembering - I read all the comments and ...

Who interacted with her after Nov 19:

• grocery store clerk (Nov 19)
• teacher at grocery store who translated, heading to work (Nov 19)
• mystery photographer (afternoon Nov 19)
• November 20 ?
• 70 year old man and grandson (morning Nov 21 ? )
• olympic skier and partner (Nov 22, 3PM)

That's only 7. Was there someone else?

Are these dates correct?

 

[otto]

Everything reflected in her glasses is in front of her. The backpack is behind her, so that cannot be reflected in her lens.

Her hand, holding her phone, is reflected in the lens. It has been released that the photo was taken using a solar panel and wifi stick.

I don't see anything sinister in her glasses reflection, and information released by investigators regarding details about the photo and reflection in her glasses seem authentic.

 

[Kaykedi]

Was it you that listed the 8 people Kaykedi? Apologies for not remembering - I read all the comments and ...

Who interacted with her after Nov 19:

• grocery store clerk (Nov 19)
• teacher at grocery store who translated, heading to work (Nov 19)
• mystery photographer (afternoon Nov 19)
• November 20 ?
• 70 year old man and grandson (morning Nov 21 ? )
• olympic skier and partner (Nov 22, 3PM)

That's only 7. Was there someone else?

Are these dates correct?

No otto, it wasn't me. You've got me trying to think of the 8th person now

 

[otto]

No otto, it wasn't me. You've got me trying to think of the 8th person now

Thanks - it was posted earlier today, maybe 12-14 hours ago. I read it and believed that there were 8 people that she encountered.

Maybe the woman who saw her doing yoga on Nov 19AM was included.
That makes 8.

Is this the correct timeline?

Eight people from Nov 19:

• observed doing yoga at van (Nov 19AM)
• interaction with grocery store clerk (Nov 19)
• translation by teacher at grocery store, heading to work (Nov 19)
• Pic de Sauvegarde mystery photographer (Nov 19, PM) (ride up valley?)
• Back at van, per notes, no communication November 20 ?
• age 70 man, grandson (Nov 21AM) (ride up valley) (Sauvegarde/Venasque/Toulouse)
• olympic skier and partner (Nov 22, 3PM) (Sauvegarde summit)
• arrives for second visit at peak (Nov 22 4PM)
• vanishes

 

[Kaykedi]

Thanks - it was posted earlier today, maybe 12-14 hours ago. I read it and believed that there were 8 people that she encountered.

Maybe the woman who saw her doing yoga on Nov 19AM was included.
That makes 8.

Is this the correct timeline?

Eight people from Nov 19:

• observed doing yoga at van (Nov 19AM)
• interaction with grocery store clerk (Nov 19)
• translation by teacher at grocery store, heading to work (Nov 19)
• Pic de Sauvegarde mystery photographer (Nov 19, PM) (ride up valley?)
• Back at van, per notes, no communication November 20 ?
• age 70 man, grandson (Nov 21AM) (ride up valley) (Sauvegarde/Venasque/Toulouse)
• olympic skier and partner (Nov 22, 3PM) (Sauvegarde summit)
• arrives for second visit at peak (Nov 22 4PM)
• vanishes

It looks good to me otto.
It's sooooo frustrating wondering WHERE she is. I can't quite see the woods for the trees in Esther's disappearance...

 

[PeggyHenry]

It is frustrating and in light of recent posts, I’m now looking at it differently.I’d imagined she was alone at the summit after meeting Vigo but it seems there were more people about.

 

[Kaykedi]

Thanks - it was posted earlier today, maybe 12-14 hours ago. I read it and believed that there were 8 people that she encountered.

Maybe the woman who saw her doing yoga on Nov 19AM was included.
That makes 8.

Is this the correct timeline?

Eight people from Nov 19:

• observed doing yoga at van (Nov 19AM)
• interaction with grocery store clerk (Nov 19)
• translation by teacher at grocery store, heading to work (Nov 19)
• Pic de Sauvegarde mystery photographer (Nov 19, PM) (ride up valley?)
• Back at van, per notes, no communication November 20 ?
• age 70 man, grandson (Nov 21AM) (ride up valley) (Sauvegarde/Venasque/Toulouse)
• olympic skier and partner (Nov 22, 3PM) (Sauvegarde summit)
• arrives for second visit at peak (Nov 22 4PM)
• vanishes

I can't find the post you're looking for either. I know the thread was cleaned up yesterday, but, it was before the post that you mentioned

 

[patCee]

Thanks - it was posted earlier today, maybe 12-14 hours ago. I read it and believed that there were 8 people that she encountered.

Maybe the woman who saw her doing yoga on Nov 19AM was included.
That makes 8.

Is this the correct timeline?

Eight people from Nov 19:

• observed doing yoga at van (Nov 19AM)
• interaction with grocery store clerk (Nov 19)
• translation by teacher at grocery store, heading to work (Nov 19)
• Pic de Sauvegarde mystery photographer (Nov 19, PM) (ride up valley?)
• Back at van, per notes, no communication November 20 ?
• age 70 man, grandson (Nov 21AM) (ride up valley) (Sauvegarde/Venasque/Toulouse)
• olympic skier and partner (Nov 22, 3PM) (Sauvegarde summit)
• arrives for second visit at peak (Nov 22 4PM)
• vanishes

This one?
Re 1. In the few days leading up to ED's disappearance she had direct encounters with 7 people that we are aware of because they have spoken out.
The woman in the shop who initiated contact; the mystery hiker who initiated contact, I think; the manager of a refuge, doing his job: the Olympic skier and partner, with whom Esther may have initiated briefcontact; Mr Ballarin (experienced hiker) and grandson, who initiated contact:
Apart from the woman in the shop who thought ED was sad, and unusual to see her practising yoga outside. Other descriptions of Esther were:- intelligent; capable; not someone to worry about; relaxed and happy, no unusual behaviour;
No indication that Esther would have harmed herself. Indications that she was more than capable of managing the terrain where she was hiking, and one that was familiar to her by the time she disappeared. Would she really have succumbed to a lake.
I think it's clear that Esther presented in a positive way, and a person who responded positively to others. It was a quiet time in the mountains due to the time of year. Nevertheless I guess there were others she spoke to. Were there
others staying at the Refuge? Although people have said accepting lifts is a cultural thing for hikers, how to judge when it's not safe is tricky. Did the wrong person see her practising yoga alone

 

[Hatty]

According to the Refugio de Venasque website, due to COVID, it was only open until October 3rd so Esther could not have stayed there and presumably had not tried to make an advance reservation.
Accueil

 

[patCee]

Thanks - it was posted earlier today, maybe 12-14 hours ago. I read it and believed that there were 8 people that she encountered.

Maybe the woman who saw her doing yoga on Nov 19AM was included.
That makes 8.

Is this the correct timeline?

Eight people from Nov 19:

• observed doing yoga at van (Nov 19AM)
• interaction with grocery store clerk (Nov 19)
• translation by teacher at grocery store, heading to work (Nov 19)
• Pic de Sauvegarde mystery photographer (Nov 19, PM) (ride up valley?)
• Back at van, per notes, no communication November 20 ?
• age 70 man, grandson (Nov 21AM) (ride up valley) (Sauvegarde/Venasque/Toulouse)
• olympic skier and partner (Nov 22, 3PM) (Sauvegarde summit)
• arrives for second visit at peak (Nov 22 4PM)
• vanishes

It was 7 people and the person you've missed is the manager of the refuge who commented on how ED presented.

 

[Hatty]

Is it the norm for hikers to book a place at a refuge? If it was Esther’s intention to stay at the Refuge de Venasque would she not have looked at their website and realised it had closed on October 3rd?

If she did actually get there and realised it was closed, could she have got off the mountains before darkness by any route either by going back or going on further? Did she have a torch? I would assume so but it probably wouldn’t be sensible to try and get off the mountain in darkness. However, if she did manage that, did she hitch a ride with anyone....a possible abductor?

Or, when arriving to find the refuge closed, maybe she tried to camp by a lake where she would be able to get water and has then had a mishap.

If she still had her phone and there was battery left, would she have told Dan the refuge was shut? She may not have wanted to to in case a) He told her off for not having checked it was open (!) Or b) she may not have wanted to worry him.....

I am sure of course that the police have considered all these possibilities and there will be a lot that is not being disclosed.

 

[Sjm_qc]

According to the Refugio de Venasque website, due to COVID, it was only open until October 3rd so Esther could not have stayed there and presumably had not tried to make an advance reservation.
Accueil

the refuge is unmanned after October 3rd, as many if not all are. Even with Covid, there is always a part of the refuges which remains open, with limited/no amenities.

From the official website “During unguarded periods, all the FFCAM shelters keep an accessible and open part, “the winter refuge”, in order to play their role of shelter and rescue.
The use of the “winter” part has been modified in order to contribute to the fight against the Covid-19 pandemic. To use this space, you must bring your sleeping bag, kitchen equipment, your masks and hand gel. Wearing a mask is compulsory, in this place and in the presence of several people, as well as respect for barrier gestures. An attendance book in the winter refuge is to be completed upon your arrival.
You will be able to safely enjoy the FFCAM shelters, without forgetting to pay your overnight stay, which is essential to maintain the services offered.”

Source: Accueil, Refuge de Vénasque

If one scrolls even further down the very informative page, one finds that the only amenity during winter is extra blankets, and space for up to 12 people, rather than the usual 20.

There is no running water during the winter.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Thanks - it was posted earlier today, maybe 12-14 hours ago. I read it and believed that there were 8 people that she encountered.

Maybe the woman who saw her doing yoga on Nov 19AM was included.
That makes 8.

Is this the correct timeline?

Eight people from Nov 19:

• observed doing yoga at van (Nov 19AM)
• interaction with grocery store clerk (Nov 19)
• translation by teacher at grocery store, heading to work (Nov 19)
• Pic de Sauvegarde mystery photographer (Nov 19, PM) (ride up valley?)
• Back at van, per notes, no communication November 20 ?
• age 70 man, grandson (Nov 21AM) (ride up valley) (Sauvegarde/Venasque/Toulouse)
• olympic skier and partner (Nov 22, 3PM) (Sauvegarde summit)
• arrives for second visit at peak (Nov 22 4PM)
• vanishes

Per Esther’s SM and the media witness reports, the events of the 19th were in the following order:

- photos and lift (lift ~2pm) back to camper from mystery hiker
- supermarket CCTV and interaction with store clerk and English teacher.

“Yoga” sighting by English teacher was “a couple of days later”, putatively 21st or 22nd.

 

[MrsWatson]

Sun Article with possibly/probably baseless speculation.
Boyfriend of missing hiker Esther Dingley breaks silence on 'break up'

 

[patCee]

On 13/11, she posted on instagram here Login • Instagram, and also the very same thing and pictures directly to their facebook page here Esther & Dan .

On the facebook post, it is timed at 13:54 and tagged a location at Benasque. Therefore, as we know, you can post to instagram and facebook directly from Instagram, it must be safe to assume the timing of the instagram post is identical to the timing of the facebook post.

Interestingly, she mentions in her text on those posts about a " new friend ", 7 days before the last instagram post. What does this mean and who is her new friend or what is the new friend?

Another thing, on Instagram, this is her last post - Login • Instagram dated 21/11 - however, for some reason this post wasn't also posted to their facebook page automatically which is a usual pattern matching both of those pages up. Was it posted then deleted off facebook or just a simple error or she just didn't want to put it on facebook - we would then know an accurate time of the Instagram post if it was posted to FB at the same time.

Other things I want to know.

They went to the alps in the summer, who looked after the dogs for 3 months while they were doing things like The Matterhorn etc?

Sorry not sure how to clip posts.
Interesting post from 13/11, that ED announced that she had made a new friend. but no further details, a photo of a female in the refuge, could be ED, but no comment since. Was this too early to be the mystery hiker, I'm losing track here? If not this adds to the 7 direct contacts we know about. It's likely she had direct contact with various other people that may have some influence upon the current situation.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Sun Article with possibly/probably baseless speculation.
Boyfriend of missing hiker Esther Dingley breaks silence on 'break up'

“ The news comes after the last person to see Esther alive revealed he gave the backpacker a lift.
Jose Antonio Ballarin, 71, and his grandson pulled over and gave Esther a lift when they saw her walking up a mountain road from the village of Benasque.

She jumped out at the footpath leading to the Pico Salvaguardia, before heading off up the mountain path from Plan de l’Estany on November 21, The Daily Mail reports.

Mr Ballarin said that Esther had told him her routes, which is believed to be different to the one she was planning on using. “
Taken from the news article quoted above. Is the implication that Esther wasn’t on the route we all thought on the 22nd and the Olympic skier had a case of mistaken identity? If this is true, potentially Esther had an accident away from the area that has been searched.

 

[Grouse]

Sorry not sure how to clip posts.
Interesting post from 13/11, that ED announced that she had made a new friend. but no further details, a photo of a female in the refuge, could be ED, but no comment since. Was this too early to be the mystery hiker, I'm losing track here? If not this adds to the 7 direct contacts we know about. It's likely she had direct contact with various other people that may have some influence upon the current situation.

No that new friend was a girl - she's in one of the pictures on Instagram, sat in front of the fire in a refuge (it's not Esther - she's wearing glasses and there are two sleeping bags side by side)

Re clipping posts - you simply edit the text between the ' [QUOTE=' and the '[/QUOTE]'

 

[Grouse]

There is no running water during the winter.

Ah, so she might have been getting water from the lake after all (as was debated upthread regarding possibility of her falling in)

 

[Sjm_qc]

“ The news comes after the last person to see Esther alive revealed he gave the backpacker a lift.
Jose Antonio Ballarin, 71, and his grandson pulled over and gave Esther a lift when they saw her walking up a mountain road from the village of Benasque.

She jumped out at the footpath leading to the Pico Salvaguardia, before heading off up the mountain path from Plan de l’Estany on November 21, The Daily Mail reports.

Mr Ballarin said that Esther had told him her routes, which is believed to be different to the one she was planning on using. “
Taken from the news article quoted above. Is the implication that Esther wasn’t on the route we all thought on the 22nd and the Olympic skier had a case of mistaken identity? If this is true, potentially Esther had an accident away from the area that has been searched.

BBM

IMO, no.

Again IMO, it’s bad/sensationalist “reporting” from a notoriously sensationalist tabloid copying & embellishing an already rather sensationalist report from another media source known for embellishment itself.

Edited, because I went a bit too far in my own speculation.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Ah, so she might have been getting water from the lake after all (as was debated upthread regarding possibility of her falling in)

It’s possible. It’s also possible that she never reached the refuge, as reported/speculated early on in quotes from French authorities (I have Thoughts about some of the more recent “quotes” allegedly from French authorities, but I’ll save them for another time).

Re water: I also have a feeling that the refuge web page has been updated, but can’t verify: I have a vague memory that when I first checked it a week-10 days ago, it said “no hot water” during the winter period, rather than “no (running) water”.