Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #1

[Ruthbullock]

BBM

IMO, no.

Again IMO, it’s bad/sensationalist “reporting” from a notoriously sensationalist tabloid copying & embellishing an already rather sensationalist report from another media source known for embellishment itself.

Edited, because I went a bit too far in my own speculation.

If they were trying to be sensationalist it would be in the headline rather than buried away at the end of the article. I used to agree about the sensationalist tabloid, but in recent years they tend to just be ahead of the curveball in many cases, so I have started not to disregard everything they say, nor does that mean I take everything they write as gospel (but I give the same courtesy to all news sources).

 

[Ruthbullock]

It’s possible. It’s also possible that she never reached the refuge, as reported/speculated early on in quotes from French authorities (I have Thoughts about some of the more recent “quotes” allegedly from French authorities, but I’ll save them for another time).

Re water: I also have a feeling that the refuge web page has been updated, but can’t verify: I have a vague memory that when I first checked it a week-10 days ago, it said “no hot water” during the winter period, rather than “no (running) water”.

I thought the same re the water. The refuge had workers staying for two weeks in late October- I doubt they would have sent up workers for two weeks with no running water at all.

 

[Hatty]

the refuge is unmanned after October 3rd, as many if not all are. Even with Covid, there is always a part of the refuges which remains open, with limited/no amenities.

From the official website “During unguarded periods, all the FFCAM shelters keep an accessible and open part, “the winter refuge”, in order to play their role of shelter and rescue.
The use of the “winter” part has been modified in order to contribute to the fight against the Covid-19 pandemic. To use this space, you must bring your sleeping bag, kitchen equipment, your masks and hand gel. Wearing a mask is compulsory, in this place and in the presence of several people, as well as respect for barrier gestures. An attendance book in the winter refuge is to be completed upon your arrival.
You will be able to safely enjoy the FFCAM shelters, without forgetting to pay your overnight stay, which is essential to maintain the services offered.”

Source: Accueil, Refuge de Vénasque

If one scrolls even further down the very informative page, one finds that the only amenity during winter is extra blankets, and space for up to 12 people, rather than the usual 20.

There is no running water during the winter.

Ok, thanks. More info than on the site I found.

Source. Accueil

 

[Sjm_qc]

If they were trying to be sensationalist it would be in the headline rather than buried away at the end of the article. I used to agree about the sensationalist tabloid, but in recent years they tend to just be ahead of the curveball in many cases, so I have started not to disregard everything they say, nor does that mean I take everything they write as gospel (but I give the same courtesy to all news sources).

I do try to keep an open mind about sensationalist tabloid “journalism”, although *my opinion* on The Sun doesn’t alter.

However, in this particular instance they directly copied the “last person to see her alive” thing from the Daily Mail, which is a red flag in itself.

JMO, etc.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I thought the same re the water. The refuge had workers staying for two weeks in late October- I doubt they would have sent up workers for two weeks with no running water at all.

That doesn’t particularly trouble me, in context.

In colder/mountainous areas it’s normal to shut off water supply at unheated buildings in the winter when there is no one permanently on site.

 

[Deleted member 277705]

Her hand, holding her phone, is reflected in the lens. It has been released that the photo was taken using a solar panel and wifi stick.

I don't see anything sinister in her glasses reflection, and information released by investigators regarding details about the photo and reflection in her glasses seem authentic.

You see her backpack in her lens ! How can you see that when the backpack is behind her ? Oh yes it is.

 

[Grouse]

It’s possible. It’s also possible that she never reached the refuge, as reported/speculated early on in quotes from French authorities (I have Thoughts about some of the more recent “quotes” allegedly from French authorities, but I’ll save them for another time).

Re water: I also have a feeling that the refuge web page has been updated, but can’t verify: I have a vague memory that when I first checked it a week-10 days ago, it said “no hot water” during the winter period, rather than “no (running) water”.

My thinking was, if there was no running water the first thing she might do, before properly going into the refuge and leaving any signs of presence, is get water from the lake - it would take time to either filter or to boil and cool before being ready to drink.

If she fell in at that point and was wearing her pack (maybe with the poles attached to the pack - I do that sometimes) it might explain her disappearance without trace and lack of evidence she used the refuge. Personally I think that's a long shot, and more likely scenario to me is her falling in the lake from the descending path. I posted a google street view link earlier that IMO indicates that is a real possibility.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Intensa búsqueda de la excursionista britanica desaparecida en el Pirineo


Translated snippet:


“The Olympic skier Martí Vigo del Arco, and a friend with whom he ascended Salvaguardia on Sunday 22, could be the last people who saw Esther, 37 years old. “It would be around three in the afternoon and we were already going down, she was going up, heavily loaded, with a very large backpack. We stopped and she asked if we had a piece of fruit or something fresh, but we had nothing left. She kept going up, the temperature was good and it was sunny. There was very little snow on the top ”, Vigo del Arco details by phone.


The athlete calculates that she (Esther( would have around an hour and 20 minutes to reach the peak of Salvaguardia and points out that at that time in the afternoon all the people were descending, that he did not see anyone else uphill”.

BBM
Pulling this forward... The skier said there was no one else further up the mountain.

 

[Grouse]

BBM
Pulling this forward... The skier said there was no one else further up the mountain.

Yes that was the one, thought I remembered that being said. Based on that then the only other possibility I can see of there being anyone else up there is if they came up by a different route, and arrived at the top after the skier had left.

I think I mentioned this before on here and someone said there's only one route up, but I can't see how that can be. Esther was planning a circular route to Refuge de Venasque - she didn't ascend from the refuge so there must be more than one route up - ie someone could have come up on the path from the refuge that she planned to go down on.

 

[ZaZara]

BBM
Pulling this forward... The skier said there was no one else further up the mountain.

He said there was no one else going uphill, everybody was going down.

"....at that time of the afternoon all the people were descending, that he did not see anyone else going uphill."

Marti del Vigo and his friend came from the top of the Salvaguardia, there is only one trail to the top.

The way I understood his entire statement is that no one was coming up after Esther, and no one else was left at the top.

 

[Grouse]

there is only one trail to the top.

Are you sure? As per my post above I don't see how that can be. Maybe the very last part to the actual summit converges to one path, but I get the impression it is possible to ascend the main mountan from both the North (Venasque) and the West.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Here’s the loop. Pic de Sauvegarde is, I believe, the little leg on the bottom left, ie off the main loop.

Trying to find the article I read saying it was one way up one way down.

https://www.alltrails.com/trail/france/occitanie/venasque-pic-de-sauvegarde-retour-par-la-freche

 

[ZaZara]

Yes that was the one, thought I remembered that being said. Based on that then the only other possibility I can see of there being anyone else up there is if they came up by a different route, and arrived at the top after the skier had left.

I think I mentioned this before on here and someone said there's only one route up, but I can't see how that can be. Esther was planning a circular route to Refuge de Venasque - she didn't ascend from the refuge so there must be more than one route up - ie someone could have come up on the path from the refuge that she planned to go down on.

Look at the maps from different trails. To the Salvaguardia there is always one trail up and then you have to go back.

This is the track via Porte de la Glère and Pico Salvaguardia. Still a one way trak to go up and down the Salvaguardia:



Puertos de la Glera y de Benasque. Pico Salvaguardia

 

[ZaZara]

Porte de la Glère and Pico Salvaguardia. Salvaguardia at the end of the 'little leg'

 

[Grouse]

Thanks @CoverMeCagney and @ZaZara

This map shows it a little differently. The leg up to the summit is the dotted line to the left below the lake. Other than that there is a circular route (it says variante retour on the map) so someone could easily have been ascending via a different route that the skier would not have been aware of, such as from Venasque or from Port de la Picade.

fiche rando Aneto

 

[Ruthbullock]

View attachment 275467

Here’s the loop. Pic de Sauvegarde is, I believe, the little leg on the bottom left, ie off the main loop.

Trying to find the article I read saying it was one way up one way down.

Pic de Sauvegarde retour par la Freche

Was it perhaps this trail she was on that day- from where she parked to the refuge is only up and down.
That’s not to say there wasn’t other ways to reach the refuge- but this is the only one from the Spanish side.
Check out this trail on AllTrails.
Le Port de Venasque

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

He said there was no one else going uphill, everybody was going down.

"....at that time of the afternoon all the people were descending, that he did not see anyone else going uphill."

Marti del Vigo and his friend came from the top of the Salvaguardia, there is only one trail to the top.

The way I understood his entire statement is that no one was coming up after Esther, and no one else was left at the top.

Thanks, ZZ... are you translating directly from the original source article? @Seni translated as all the people were descending, that he did not see anyone else uphill, which I read as did not see anyone else [left or remaining] uphill. Translations can be so difficult.

 

[ZaZara]

Thanks @CoverMeCagney and @ZaZara

This map shows it a little differently. The leg up to the summit is the dotted line to the left below the lake. Other than that there is a circular route (it says variante retour on the map) so someone could easily have been ascending via a different route that the skier would not have been aware of, such as from Venasque or from Port de la Picade.

fiche rando Aneto

IMHO the route via 'variante retour' would have taken a day.

 

[ZaZara]

Thanks, ZZ... are you translating directly from the original source article? @Seni translated as all the people were descending, that he did not see anyone else uphill, which I read as did not see anyone else [left or remaining] uphill. Translations can be so difficult.

he is speaking about Esther going uphill, while everyone else is returning. This would be the logical thing to do for Spaniards at that hour of the day.

Text reads:

apunta que en ese momento de la tarde 'todas las personas estaban descendiendo'1, que no vio 'a nadie más'2 'cuesta arriba'3.

1.everybody was going down
2. and he saw 'no one other (than Esther)' (who was going)
3. uphill

words between brackets added by me for clarification.

IMO if he had seen someone else at the top, he would have mentioned it, but differently. No doubt he would have mentoned that, the top is not so big that you can overlook someone. That is why I think he saw no one else at the top and no one else going up at that hour other than Esther.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

he is speaking about Esther going uphill, while everyone else is returning. This would be the logical thing to do for Spaniards at that hour of the day.

Text reads:



1.everybody was going down
2. and he saw 'no one other (than Esther)' (who was going)
3. uphill

words between brackets added by me for clarification.

IMO if he had seen someone else at the top, he would have mentioned it, but differently. No doubt he would have mentoned that, the top is not so big that you can overlook someone. That is why I think he saw no one else at the top and no one else going up at that hour other than Esther.

Thank you!