Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[Grouse]

Is one option to fake a photo date to take a screenshot of the photo on the cell phone?

Maybe.

I'm also wondering now if the date in the filename could actually just be the date sent rather than date taken? I just suddenly realised that the fact that "WA" was included in the filename means the Whatsapp app manipulated the filename already so it might mean that.

 

[Grouse]

Bivouacking sounded like something new for her - was there a recent post from her about sleeping in the open?

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Is the first image from Google street view, it doesn't look like what I get. If so are all those blue blobs where 360 degree photos were taken? I only see 4 on google.

 

[10ofRods]

Does the Hospice have running water and internet?

No internet, but I believe there is cold running water even during the "guarding" period:

Accueil, Refuge de Vénasque

If I've got the right refuge...

 

[otto]

Is the first image from Google street view, it doesn't look like what I get. If so are all those blue blobs where 360 degree photos were taken? I only see 4 on google.

The blue blobs mark the walking trail.

 

[otto]

No internet, but I believe there is cold running water even during the "guarding" period:

Accueil, Refuge de Vénasque

If I've got the right refuge...

It's the right refuge, but my interpretation is that there is running water from June to Sept, but not during the remainder of the year (unguarded period).

 

[Grouse]

dbm

 

[Ruthbullock]

Maybe.

I'm also wondering now if the date in the filename could actually just be the date sent rather than date taken? I just suddenly realised that the fact that "WA" was included in the filename means the Whatsapp app manipulated the filename already so it might mean that.

You are absolutely right- it’s the date and times sent- the photo could have been taken 20 years ago (the data on when the photo was taken is only on the phone that took the photo). It is possible to take a photo directly via WA but there is no way for the person receiving the photo to know which type of photo has been sent (uploaded photograph or taken via the app)

 

[Ruthbullock]

It's the right refuge, but my interpretation is that there is running water from June to Sept, but not during the remainder of the year (unguarded period).

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That was also my interpretation of it. However the Facebook mentions them having an outage of internet and phone between two July dates and then the internet and phone being back on again (this doesn’t necessarily equate to WiFi,). We need someone able to speak french well enough to message the Facebook page enquiring about whether there is a toilet and place to have a cold wash as they are hoping to visit.

 

[RickshawFan]

No internet, but I believe there is cold running water even during the "guarding" period:

Accueil, Refuge de Vénasque

If I've got the right refuge...

That would be the Refuge, not the Hospice. The Refuge does not have running water in winter.

This was a BIG reason why "potential accident while looking for water" came up. Otherwise, ED could have just held off on water needs until she got to the Refuge, turn on the tap, and voilà.

However, if she saw that the Hospice had running water and/or internet, or she was feeling lonely and needed company, that might be a good reason to hustle and get to the Hospice.

 

[RickshawFan]

That was also my interpretation of it. However the Facebook mentions them having an outage of internet and phone between two July dates and then the internet and phone being back on again (this doesn’t necessarily equate to WiFi,). We need someone able to speak french well enough to message the Facebook page enquiring about whether there is a toilet and place to have a cold wash as they are hoping to visit.

There's a privy or composting toilet. You can see it in photos. This would not involve running water. In the backcountry, you don't want to have running water for a toilet, otherwise you have to find a place for the sewage. Composting toilets or regular open-air privies that layer poop with wood chips or leaves are the norm. No more latrines! (Well, maybe a few.)
I hope SAR looked in the privy for evidence of ED..

IMO it's documented there's no running water at the Refuge in colder months, and, really, why would there be? The pipes would freeze. Besides, there's water right there outside; there's no need for running water. You just need a treatment method.

I suppose it's possible the Refuge doesn't have running water, but does have a pump outdoors. I'm thinking this would freeze too, though.

 

[sundaaaay]

I found something interesting which I'm sorry if it was already mentioned. On the map there is a geological feature named Ravin de la Louzère. Ravin in English is ravine, its a cave with a seemingly open top
(More information here including a sketch of the ravine Link). In the drawing there is a 'Bloc' covering the entrance but in the photo there is not. Its exact location is not on the map but its somewhere near 42°42'30.0"N 0°38'08.2"E. There are XYZ coordinates on the link.

Although a bit away from Port de Benasque, it seems to be very close to her original route & the changed route on the map in the media.

 

[sundaaaay]

If she descended Port de Benasque immediately after sending the last text, decided to bivouac that night and walked past Refuge de Venasque, continued along either the planned route or the changed route, it would potentially put her close to that ravine at dusk. The chances of falling into that are slim I know, but it would explain why no trace was found.

 

[otto]

If she descended Port de Benasque immediately after sending the last text, decided to bivouac that night and walked past Refuge de Venasque, continued along either the planned route or the changed route, it would potentially put her close to that ravine at dusk. The chances of falling into that are slim I know, but it would explain why no trace was found.

Perhaps not so slim. I can't find the exact location of Ravin du Culet - want to see how close it is to her planned route.

"Upper boom of Benasque 2248 m and 9.6 ha, lake studied by Emile Belloc .
One of the high places of Pyrenean tourism since the beginning of the 19th century ... There were also many deaths during the long periods of snowfall, at the Trou des Chaudronniers of course (the "anecdote" is quite famous) but especially of falls in the Ravin du Culet. These dead were not tourists but people from the Spanish or French valleys who passed to trade through this port, one of the main places of passage between Aragon and France after Somport. The corpses were discovered when the snow melted, that is to say with the accumulations, in June or even July, during the tourist season"
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Boums de Venasque - Bagnères de Luchon

 

[otto]

Crevasse, crevice, ravine, gulley. My guess is that the Ravin de Culet is between the Refuge de Venasque and the start of the switchbacks to the Hospice de France.

"Starting from the hospice, the path crosses the stream by a wooden bridge, and, winding upwards by a series of very regular zigzags, continues on the left bank as far as a spot known as the Culets, where the water comes pouring over the perpendicular rock from the upper plateau on the left. It here crosses the stream, and, continuing up its right bank, passes the cavity known as the Trou •lea CliaDdronBierii, from the fate of nine tinkers who were there buried by an avalanche many years ago. Many others have, from time to time, perished in this passage ; and the tourist who makes the excursion on a warm day of August, with ample stock of provisions, can scarcely realise the dangers and rigours of this journey when undertaken in the winter or in the early spring. Shortly after this, you come in view of the Man Eock, an upright block which serves for a mark for travellers when snow covers the path. Passing this on your right, and skirting to the left or E. side of 5 upper lakes or tarns of an intensely blue colour, which occupy the rock basin at the foot of the Sauvegarde, the path bends a little to the left, and a sharp pull of 20 minutes up the last and steepest zigzags places you in the gap which forms the port."
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Full text of "A guide to the Pyrenees"

Best guess:

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[sundaaaay]

So there is Ravin de la Louzère & Ravin de Culet, and deviating from the paths once past the refuge could be dangerous. And if your correct that the ravine is located there, then this is within walking distance from port de venasque before the sun sets.

 

[otto]

So there is Ravin de la Louzère & Ravin de Culet, and deviating from the paths once past the refuge could be dangerous. And if your correct that the ravine is located there, then this is within walking distance from port de venasque before the sun sets.

Considering the possibility that she did not climb to the Pic de Sauvegarde, and instead went to the Refuge de Venasque, arriving at 4PM, she could have continued hiking until sunset. It seems there are spots in the area where people have disappeared. The more I read about the area, the more I notice that the trails are not recommended after the end of October.

 

[RickshawFan]

It had rained significantly a couple of days prior (the day ED decided to go back to the Campervan instead of continuing on a hike). There could have been a lot of water in the area where the trail crosses the stream.

 

[otto]

It had rained significantly a couple of days prior (the day ED decided to go back to the Campervan instead of continuing on a hike). There could have been a lot of water in the area where the trail crosses the stream.

Slippery!

Rainfall on the French side of the border on Nov 19-20

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm thinking y'all are right with this scenario.

The risk of all this is driving me crazy!

A HUGE problem in all of this is that ED had had a good experience bivouac-ing (no tent and no bivvy bag, in her case) a few nights before, even though it was expressly beyond her comfort level. With the sunshine and all, she could have been lulled into thinking she could do it all again.

So not smart to continue past the Refuge, even if she had to hang out. She could have spent the time getting water, getting rehydrated, making cups of tea, staying warm, gathering firewood, doing yoga, getting a fire going, doing Sudokus, reading a book, sitting on the doorstep looking at stars.... If all this was "beyond her comfort level", at least there was no risk in it.

 

[RickshawFan]

Slippery!

Rainfall on the French side of the border on Nov 19-20

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The temperature was near zero that night? In town? It would have been lower in that valley, and it would have been damp. Do we know if it was fogged over the next day?

Ice... at the stream crossing...