Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[RickshawFan]

Snipped for focus

I can now see it all on RedHaus map from the Pic de S. I imagine it would have been irresistable to ED seeing the panorama of it all. I wonder just how far she managed to get over the 3 days, not far it seems evidenced by the lack of phone contact.

I'm thinking ED saw the trails at her feet, and on the spot told DC that she would take them, not necessarily because that's what she was going to do, but because she was fed up with phone calls.
This would explain the biff in the article for la Glère. She made a mistake and had it as le Glère. That's not a mistake she'd normally make IMO, since at school they teach you VERY early on that -ère on the end of a French noun would be feminine. Le Glère would not sound at all right to a 9-year-old with an expensive education.
It's possible ED happened to see a signpost on the way to the Pic, and she simply scraped her brain and plonked it in the conversation because she didn't want to prolong a phone call.
Maybe she took those trails, but the odds are 50-50 that she didn't end up there.

 

[The_Investigator]

I think she could have had an accident much further along than we'd imagine. It's possible she felt harangued and annoyed and didn't want to take phone calls for a couple of days.

I don’t think she did, I think she spent her whole adult life happily being mothered by DC , otherwise why would she have stayed with him so long. I think she was just very dependent on him to do anything, hence the constant texts that he sent her and didn’t want to disclose in the dossier, like a mother trying to get her child to get up in the morning. Embarrassed perhaps that he is the mother figure, but plenty of men are in relationships, gay or straight, one usually is the mothering role. I think she was happy with that, she got to enjoy all the freedom that he planned. I think she MAY actually have realised on her extended month that she couldn’t do it as well as DC! i.e. the planning in terms of both route and food, and how would that make you feel, when you realise you can’t manage on your own. Like the partner who’s other half dies and they don’t know how to pay the bills or drive turn on the heating ! I say that from experience, my mother in law didn’t know how to turn on the heating when her husband died. Nor did she ever pay a bill or have a bank account.

 

[The_Investigator]

I think she could have had an accident much further along than we'd imagine. It's possible she felt harangued and annoyed and didn't want to take phone calls for a couple of days.

I don’t think she did, I think she spent her whole adult life happily being mothered by DC , otherwise why would she have stayed with him so long. I think she was just very dependent on him to do anything, hence the constant texts that he sent her and didn’t want to disclose in the dossier, like a mother trying to get her child to get up in the morning. Embarrassed perhaps that he is the mother figure, but plenty of men are in relationships, gay or straight, one usually is the mothering role. I think she was happy with that, she got to enjoy all the freedom that he planned. I think she MAY actually have realised on her extended month that she couldn’t do it as well as DC! i.e. the planning in terms of both route and food, and how would that make you feel, when you realise you can’t manage on your own. Like the partner who’s other half dies and they don’t know how to pay the bills or drive turn on the heating ! I say that from experience, my mother in law didn’t know how to turn on the heating when her husband died. Nor did she ever pay a bill or have a bank account.

Why have they put her middle name first?

Her name is Maria, she just uses Esther. Same as me. Lots of us don’t like our given names and use our middle name.

 

[The_Investigator]

I think she could have had an accident much further along than we'd imagine. It's possible she felt harangued and annoyed and didn't want to take phone calls for a couple of days.

I don’t think she did, I think she spent her whole adult life happily being mothered by DC , otherwise why would she have stayed with him so long. I think she was just very dependent on him to do anything, hence the constant texts that he sent her and didn’t want to disclose in the dossier, like a mother trying to get her child to get up in the morning. Embarrassed perhaps that he is the mother figure, but plenty of men are in relationships, gay or straight, one usually is the mothering role. I think she was happy with that, she got to enjoy all the freedom that he planned. I think she MAY actually have realised on her extended month that she couldn’t do it as well as DC! i.e. the planning in terms of both route and food, and how would that make you feel, when you realise you can’t manage on your own. Like the partner who’s other half dies and they don’t know how to pay the bills or drive turn on the heating ! I say that from experience, my mother in law didn’t know how to turn on the heating when her husband died. Nor did she ever pay a bill or have a bank account.

Why have they put her middle name first?

Her name is Maria, she just uses Esther. Same as me. Lots of us don’t like our given names and use our middle name.

Esther & Dan had membership with the Austria Alpine Club which will include mountain rescue. It's free in France anyway (unless you have behaved like an idiot)
I would also mention that the when there is no gardien at hut, there is no online booking.[/QUOT

 

[jsoap]

Plus, Esther was just hiking, she wasn't skiing, climbing, scrambling, mountaineering, crossing avalanche zones, or any of the high risk mountain activities that Alpine Club members typically do. I've never heard of ordinary hikers needing insurance. Search and Rescue is typically provided for free, just as are police services.

I guess it depends on how much hiking you do, and assessment of the risk of running into problems. A year or two ago were were doing up to 100 days out a year, mainly in the early and late season, when there were few people out on the trail. So I looked into insurance, and AAC(UK) membership was by far the cheapest way to do this, though I never actually went through with it. It does demonstrate, again, a well thought out approach to what they were doing.

 

[The_Investigator]

I'm thinking ED saw the trails at her feet, and on the spot told DC that she would take them, not necessarily because that's what she was going to do, but because she was fed up with phone calls.
This would explain the biff in the article for la Glère. She made a mistake and had it as le Glère. That's not a mistake she'd normally make IMO, since at school they teach you VERY early on that -ère on the end of a French noun would be feminine. Le Glère would not sound at all right to a 9-year-old with an expensive education.
It's possible ED happened to see a signpost on the way to the Pic, and she simply scraped her brain and plonked it in the conversation because she didn't want to prolong a phone call.
Maybe she took those trails, but the odds are 50-50 that she didn't end up there.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Her name is Maria, she just uses Esther. Same as me. Lots of us don’t like our given names and use our middle name.

Interesting... her birth record is Esther Maria. So where do you get that info from?

 

[ZaZara]

Interesting... her birth record is Esther Maria. So where do you get that info from?

I get the impression that somehowe you have been worried for a while already that they are searching for the wrong Esther Maria / Maria Esther? and perhaps will come up with the wrong person?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I get the impression that somehowe you have been worried for a while already that they are searching for the wrong Esther Maria / Maria Esther? and perhaps will come up with the wrong person?

Nope! I don’t think that whatsoever. I just like things to be factually correct and don’t understand why they’d put a poster out with Maria on when it’s not her first name and she’s not known by it.

It doesn’t make sense. That’s all.

 

[PeggyHenry]

I've just been looking into the use of Maria as a forename in Spain (albeit only in the 'unreliable on occasion' Wikipedia) and I think I understand why they have called her Maria Esther Dingley. In Spain, Maria is a well-used name, honouring the Virgin Mary and is often used as a middle name for boys following a masculine name e.g José María Aznar. Also, girls may have a masculine second name such as María José . I think that they have switched the second and first name around to emphasise that Esther is a female...?

Spanish naming customs - Wikipedia

In Spanish cultures, people either have one or two given names. For instance Juan or, like the Spanish Prime Minister, José Luis. Luis is not the Prime Minister’s middle name but part of a full, single, given name – José Luis.

Spanish Naming Conventions – The Basics - MyHeritage Blog

 

[stmarysmead]

IIRC Someone mentioned upthread that there is a glacier within the area. Esther writes about her mystical fascination with glaciers...saying once that she never wanted to leave. Where is that glacier...on what route from the Pic? Is it off trail?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

IIRC Someone mentioned upthread that there is a glacier within the area. Esther writes about her mystical fascination with glaciers...saying once that she never wanted to leave. Where is that glacier...on what route from the Pic? Is it off trail?

It’s back down from Sauvegarde, cross the road on the Spanish side, and up the other side. Technically, it could be a route back to the van in Benasque.

I was confused when it was mentioned as a possible accident location a few weeks ago, but let’s just say Esther decided against Ref de V and slept at La Besurta again on 22nd, she might have attempted a cross country walk back through the glacier. I can’t imagine she’d have attempted it in the dark.

 

[stmarysmead]

It’s back down from Sauvegarde, cross the road on the Spanish side, and up the other side. Technically, it could be a route back to the van in Benasque.

I was confused when it was mentioned as a possible accident location a few weeks ago, but let’s just say Esther decided against Ref de V and slept at La Besurta again on 22nd, she might have attempted a cross country walk back through the glacier. I can’t imagine she’d have attempted it in the dark.

Would she have been able to reach it in the two hours of daylight...in order to camp 0ut there? That might have been very appealing and as you say...put her closer to the camper van.

 

[RickshawFan]

IIRC Someone mentioned upthread that there is a glacier within the area. Esther writes about her mystical fascination with glaciers...saying once that she never wanted to leave. Where is that glacier...on what route from the Pic? Is it off trail?

I believe the access is from the Hospice, so she'd have had to go down there first. From the top of the Pic, she likely would have seen the layout.

 

[RickshawFan]

I don’t think she did, I think she spent her whole adult life happily being mothered by DC , otherwise why would she have stayed with him so long. I think she was just very dependent on him to do anything, hence the constant texts that he sent her and didn’t want to disclose in the dossier, like a mother trying to get her child to get up in the morning. Embarrassed perhaps that he is the mother figure, but plenty of men are in relationships, gay or straight, one usually is the mothering role. I think she was happy with that, she got to enjoy all the freedom that he planned. I think she MAY actually have realised on her extended month that she couldn’t do it as well as DC! i.e. the planning in terms of both route and food, and how would that make you feel, when you realise you can’t manage on your own. Like the partner who’s other half dies and they don’t know how to pay the bills or drive turn on the heating ! I say that from experience, my mother in law didn’t know how to turn on the heating when her husband died. Nor did she ever pay a bill or have a bank account.

I'm not sure we can project this onto the situation. There is just as much evidence that ED was caretaking DC. I also don't see caretaking in a relationship as reflecting poorly on the receiver: some couples just relate this way. And I especially don't see how "embarrassment about a male being caretaker in a relationship" figures in a missing person's case.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Would she have been able to reach it in the two hours of daylight...in order to camp 0ut there? That might have been very appealing and as you say...put her closer to the camper van.

I think she’d have had time to get onto the glacier but would be very exposed up there on a cold night! Doubtful on 22nd, possible on 23rd in my opinion. It’d be a 8-10 mile (ish) walk back to the van across there.

 

[otto]

I'm thinking ED saw the trails at her feet, and on the spot told DC that she would take them, not necessarily because that's what she was going to do, but because she was fed up with phone calls.

This would explain the biff in the article for la Glère. She made a mistake and had it as le Glère. That's not a mistake she'd normally make IMO, since at school they teach you VERY early on that -ère on the end of a French noun would be feminine. Le Glère would not sound at all right to a 9-year-old with an expensive education.

It's possible ED happened to see a signpost on the way to the Pic, and she simply scraped her brain and plonked it in the conversation because she didn't want to prolong a phone call.
Maybe she took those trails, but the odds are 50-50 that she didn't end up there.

From the Dossier

21st November

10:07 – Leaves the motorhome - “Now going to try hitching”
10:08 – Sends Dan photographs of her map to specify the area she will be hiking in.
10:35 – “2 hitches so far – halfway!”
13:11 – Reaches the top of Pic de Sauvegarde.​

 

[CoverMeCagney]

From the Dossier

21st November

10:07 – Leaves the motorhome - “Now going to try hitching”
10:08 – Sends Dan photographs of her map to specify the area she will be hiking in.
10:35 – “2 hitches so far – halfway!”
13:11 – Reaches the top of Pic de Sauvegarde.​

We know exactly where she was supposed to be so either she’s on that route but hidden, or she had a change of plan that she couldn’t communicate as no signal (or no phone).

We’ll probably never know until she’s found.

 

[ZaZara]

Nope! I don’t think that whatsoever. I just like things to be factually correct and don’t understand why they’d put a poster out with Maria on when it’s not her first name and she’s not known by it.

It doesn’t make sense. That’s all.

Take a deep breath, Cagney. Given the circumstances, identification will likely not take place by calling out a name. Dentals, length, clothing, DNA are the more likely options.

Btw, I tried the link that you posted earlier. Esther Maria it is, born 1983 in Holland. A non-existent country. I am sitting on my hands here, don't get me going.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Take a deep breath, Cagney. Given the circumstances, identification will likely not take place by calling out a name. Dentals, length, clothing, DNA are the more likely options.

Btw, I tried the link that you posted earlier. Esther Maria it is, born 1983 in Holland. A non-existent country. I am sitting on my hands here, don't get me going.

LOL, you take a deep breath too!