Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[otto]

Yes, I agree, the simplistic explanation for ED's disappearance is on 22/11 she fell down the back of pic de Sauvegarde into Boum de Vanesque after she chatted with Dan and before she left the summit. Perhaps she wanted one more cool pic, or perhaps she dropped her phone and instinctively tried to grab for it, perhaps she collapsed....

As for ED's academic training in structure, decision making and planning. I am not sure how much she applied that to her day to day life. I recall distinctly seeing at least one reference by ED in her FB posts (or perhaps a video) stating she hated making decisions. And it appears DC did all their meal prepping from videos, etc. So ED may have been brilliant in her business application of economics management, but I wonder to what degree she translated that to her every day life based on her own words.

Now if I am completely off base with that assumption then she may have very well pulled off a covert voluntary disappearance with those structure and planning skills! That sure teases the outcome I am most hopeful for but more dubious about every day - that she is still alive with a buddy who is helping her stay incognito for a while.

Esther excelled in economics and management before the age of 18 years old and was admitted to Oxford to refine those skills. That means she was good with math. She lived those skills before she got the degree. I cannot agree that she got the degree but didn't apply those skills in her life.

Not liking making decisions and being very capable of making decisions do not contradict each other. If her partner could translate his chemistry degree into meal prepping, she could translate her economics and management degree into trip planning.

Voluntary disappearance is the phrase used to describe suicide. Someone voluntarily disappeared and cannot be found because they don't want to be found.

 

[RickshawFan]

When I first saw this map, I assumed that her partner made it for the dossier, but the map doesn't include the route from the summit to the refuge.

I wondered whether he omitted that section because he did not believe she was there.

However, if this is her map, then she omitted the section from the summit to the refuge. I don't see where the map that she sent him is specifically identified in the dossier, but this is in the Route section.

If this is her map, and is her route from the summit, why is part of the trail missing?

View attachment 280162

Surely that can't be the map she used while she was en route? That looks like it's from a guide book. It's maybe for planning, but not for a trip: there's not enough detail, and it would be waaaaay to easy to get lost.

 

[Puzzles]

I wonder whether Esther and her partner still had insurance policies on each other. As professionals, she in Economics and Management, he in Chemistry, joint property expenses, they probably had reciprocal policies. As traveling hippies, did they keep those policies? I doubt the answer is out there, just curious.

It should be noted that French police have ruled out third party involvement.

Hi otto, I'm hoping you'll answer two questions please:
1. What thoughts led to your curiosity about ED and DC having insurance policies?
2. Will you give us a citation for French police having ruled out third-party involvement?

The latest information from French LE I read is the BBC report of January 11:
"French police have said there were three categories her going missing could fall under; accident, voluntary disappearance, or someone else being involved." (Esther Dingley: Missing hiker's partner 'in a world without sense')

That's an artful, non-committal statement from LE, telling us nothing at all. I'd be interested to read how they've worded a decision to discount frank foul play or coercion.
BBM

 

[RickshawFan]

One consideration - regarding Esther being dependent on others for structure, decisions and planning, her degree is in Economics and Management, 2001. I suspect she had superior skills in structure, decision making and planning.

I think she fell from the area near the summit into the lake on Nov 22 without reaching the refuge.

BBM
She doesn't seem to have had IMO.

I'm not sure a BA in economics would help you much with budgeting. It would be more organized around policies, principles, theories, statistics, projections... And I doubt a BA in Management would give you everyday practice. I'm thinking you might get accounting, personnel, organizing staff, but no office experience managing. I don't believe those subjects would transition well to home life.
Those academic disciplines don't seem to be a feature in her current life.

 

[Hatty]

Not sure, but I’ve just read 4 pages about salad and I don’t know where it’s going.

I agree CMC. As I mentioned up thread, IF she was malnourished IMO it means she could have either.

1. Fallen in a lake.
2. Become disoriented and gone off track and died somewhere that hasn’t been searched.
3. Got so hungry she’s tried to get back to the van.

End of story. The bottom line is we don’t know exactly what she had eaten, what exactly she had in her rucksack and IMO it’s irrelevant.

 

[Puzzles]

I continue to consider the possibility ED has chosen to disappear. Someone upthread spoke of pleasure from imaging her selling ice cream at Brighton Beach – a delightful image and yes, we all want her to be alive and safe.
In Australia, a person reported as missing could notify LE of his/her safety, and be confident the press would not be informed.
I don’t know how a choice for voluntary disappearance might be managed in France, Spain, or the UK.
From the Australian Federal Police:
"Going missing is not a crime. If you have been reported as a missing person and make contact with police, your privacy will be maintained."
(Myths and Facts)

 

[otto]

Hi otto, I'm hoping you'll answer two questions please:
1. What thoughts led to your curiosity about ED and DC having insurance policies?
2. Will you give us a citation for French police having ruled out third-party involvement?

The latest information from French LE I read is the BBC report of January 11:
"French police have said there were three categories her going missing could fall under; accident, voluntary disappearance, or someone else being involved." (Esther Dingley: Missing hiker's partner 'in a world without sense')

That's an artful, non-committal statement from LE, telling us nothing at all. I'd be interested to read how they've worded a decision to discount frank foul play or coercion.
BBM

Missing wife - always look at family first, and possible motive.

Yes, let me look for the link again: "citation for French police having ruled out third-party involvement." It's posted upthread somewhere. There's an update to the article you linked.

Police and SAR are assessing Esther's preparedness and state of mind during the hike. Asking a stranger for food at the start of the hike probably led to more questions about Esther and food. 10 days earlier being unprepared for a hike must have added more questions. Someone posted upthread that Dan stated in the dossier that Esther picked up fruit at refuges - but he knew they were closed when she was there - if she arrived. Odd irrelevant detail to include. Is it downplaying Esther approaching strangers and asking for food?

 

[otto]

Hi otto, I'm hoping you'll answer ...
Will you give us a citation for French police having ruled out third-party involvement?

"Citation" for French police having ruled out third-party involvement

Missing hiker Esther Dingley had love life problems says witness as British police called in to help | Daily Mail Online

 

[otto]

BBM
She doesn't seem to have had IMO.

I'm not sure a BA in economics would help you much with budgeting. It would be more organized around policies, principles, theories, statistics, projections... And I doubt a BA in Management would give you everyday practice. I'm thinking you might get accounting, personnel, organizing staff, but no office experience managing. I don't believe those subjects would transition well to home life.
Those academic disciplines don't seem to be a feature in her current life.

How can we possibly judge whether her Oxford degree, awarding her superior skills in economics and management (2001), was deserved. If it was deserved, it was lived. I don't know anyone with a math science university degree in economics who sloughed if off after graduation.

Did she have a:

• BA in Economics
• BA in Management
• BSc in Economics
• BComm in Management

 

[otto]

I agree CMC. As I mentioned up thread, IF she was malnourished IMO it means she could have either.

1. Fallen in a lake.
2. Become disoriented and gone off track and died somewhere that hasn’t been searched.
3. Got so hungry she’s tried to get back to the van.

End of story. The bottom line is we don’t know exactly what she had eaten, what exactly she had in her rucksack and IMO it’s irrelevant.

She didn't have to be hungry to take risks at the summit. Her state of mind is also in question given two points that have been reported: Dan wanted to settle in France, Esther wanted to continue nomadic living, and, she told a witness that she wasn't sure about the relationship.

"'She said she liked to travel light when she was in the mountains.'

'If she made mistakes anywhere, it could have been the provisions she'd take because she was well-prepared in terms of equipment and very strong physically.'
...

Earlier this month, Mr Colegate rubbished claims that his partner was unhappy in their relationship, and revealed their final loving texts.
...

Mr Colegate dismissed the theory that that his partner could have 'voluntarily disappeared' because she was unhappy in their relationship.

This theory was put forward by French Captain Jean-Marc Bordinaro in December, who has been leading the investigation into Ms Dingley.
​

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/worldnews/13403493/esther-dingley-lake/

"Hiker Laura Adomaityte, 27, who lives in Spain and met Ms Dingley at a shelter just days before her disappearance, was asked to share details about the hikers 'physical and emotional shape' to the authorities.

She said: 'Esther said they were taking a break and didn't know if they were going to get back together again."
​

Missing hiker Esther Dingley had love life problems says witness as British police called in to help | Daily Mail Online

 

[Puzzles]

"Citation" for French police having ruled out third-party involvement

View attachment 280174

Missing hiker Esther Dingley had love life problems says witness as British police called in to help | Daily Mail Online

I read the article but didn't see where French police have ruled out third-party involvement.
Can someone point out where that is stated?

 

[otto]

She was away for one month, having barely escaped to Spain to avoid French lockdown. She was taking a break from her partner and had extended her trip a few days at a time. She said they were "taking a break" and might not get back together. He said they were happy to see each other so happy, not to see each other.

 

[otto]

I read the article but didn't see where French police have ruled out third-party involvement.
Can someone point out where that is stated?

The caption on the photo. Additional sources can be found online

Missing hiker Esther Dingley had love life problems says witness as British police called in to help | Daily Mail Online

 

[Puzzles]

Aha. Thanks otto. Not really a definite quote from LE.

 

[otto]

Aha. Thanks otto. Not really a definite quote from LE.

Not "a definite quote" because it is a caption. Have you checked online to see whether the caption is correct?

 

[otto]

My impression is that they were headed towards hoping that each other was happy.

"The missing backpacker Esther Dingley who vanished in the Pyrenees last year had been 'taking a break' in her relationship at the time of her disappearance, according to a witness.
...

The final time the couple spoke was via a video call. 'We were both very happy to see each other so happy.
...

He told The Times in December: 'Esther Dingley wanted to continue with her current way of life, journeys in a camper van and sporting activities including hiking, whilst Daniel Colegate seems a little tired of this nomadic life.
...

Last year, Colegate arranged for them to stay in a remote farmhouse in the Pyrenees village of Arreau, which they decided to return to when lockdown began earlier this year. But at the end of October, Ms Dingley set off alone ...

It is known that she reached the peak of the mountain because of a selfie she sent to Mr Colegate at the top, just before 4pm, and three days before she was expected to return to the Spanish village of Benasque. "
​

Missing hiker Esther Dingley had love life problems says witness as British police called in to help | Daily Mail Online

 

[PeggyHenry]

"Citation" for French police having ruled out third-party involvement

View attachment 280174

Missing hiker Esther Dingley had love life problems says witness as British police called in to help | Daily Mail Online

the same article states that police insist that All theories are still on the table. DC also leans towards third party involvement. I think it is misleading to say that french police have dismissed third party involvement based on that article!

 

[PeggyHenry]

She was away for one month, having barely escaped to Spain to avoid French lockdown. She was taking a break from her partner and had extended her trip a few days at a time. She said they were "taking a break" and might not get back together. He said they were happy to see each other so happy, not to see each other.

From Esther we have heard that they were taking a break and may not get back together. From Dan we hear that there were no relationship problems and they couldn’t wait to be back together. There has to be a reason why both give such conflicting reports....

 

[PeggyHenry]

I think that whatever you study at high level, in degrees, A levels etc .. it doesn’t necessarily mean you apply the knowledge in every day life!
Psychologists can be great at theories explaining others’ behaviour but may not apply it to their own way of living. Medical doctors can help and treat patients but also can do things that are destructive to their own health. When you remove emotional involvement you can apply knowledge easily but in your own life you are subject to your own internal anxieties, emotions etc which constantly minimise an objective approach. IMO. I see many instances where people such as counsellors or therapists or doctors have messy lives but are great with others.


So although Esther has great skills in Economics and Business and may be a fantastic consultant to a budding enterprise, when she sets off on a hike and is dealing with her own food provision there will be nothing further from her mind. IMO

Although there are those that do.. my brother is a mathematician and I once remarked that the nights were getting lighter. Immediately he said .. yeah the pattern follows a sine curve so there’s a difference in how much lighter they get depending on what week or month....
do we are all different I spose


Actually, take one fine day when all is great in Esthers world.. great weather, happy banter and a challenging hike for the day. On that day she will pack diligently and expertly for any circumstance.. she is on top of her game.

take another day.. she’s been hiking solo for two weeks and is lonely. She’s a little depressed and doesn’t know where she stands with her relationship. She’s weary and can’t make her mind up where to go or how to feel. On this day she couldn’t care two hoots about what’s in her bag. Her planning skills have gone out the window.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

From Esther we have heard that they were taking a break and may not get back together. From Dan we hear that there were no relationship problems and they couldn’t wait to be back together. There has to be a reason why both give such conflicting reports....

Also, we haven't actually heard from Esther. Its from a third party. I dont for one minute think the third party made it up but its possibly open to interpretation.

Something that bothers me a bit about the taking a break thing. Its not particularly an English term. Its an Americanism which came over with Friends I think! So its been here for a while and people no doubt do use it but I think more common would be having a breather, not together at the moment, having some time out..

It could just be the witness presented it that way, just slightly grates on me.

What do my fellow Englanders think?