Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[Grouse]

I don't think he's lying

I know, I didn't read you post as that at all, you were just querying how absolute the 25th may have been.

that's why I wondered how it was managed when she previously extended her time away. I know the weather would decide whilst in the Pyrenees, but she wasn't confined there, with many other places to move on to where it's warmer. I'm not suggesting that ED has moved on but just curious why the 25th seemed so absolute, weather aside.

BBM yes, without that information there's no way of knowing for sure. And yes she could have gone somewhere warmer maybe in Spain.

But my gut feeling/opinion is that she would have probably been more than ready to go back after 4 weeks in the van on her own. And it would make sense to be back in France before the end of the Brexit transition period to facilitate their application for French residency.

 

[ZaZara]

I don't think he's lying, that's why I wondered how it was managed when she previously extended her time away. I know the weather would decide whilst in the Pyrenees, but she wasn't confined there, with many other places to move on to where it's warmer. I'm not suggesting that ED has moved on but just curious why the 25th seemed so absolute, weather aside, when ED seemed to experience difficulty living more traditional routines. Would be interesting to know how extensions were managed. Thanks for looking Grouse.

COVID restrictions made / make the options of travelling through Spain very limited. Spain has been in a state of emercency from the end of October to May 9, 2021 . There would have been areas, regions (and towns) that she was not allowed to enter. The same applies to France, but she would be allowed to pass through on her return home.

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, I should have been clearer. That is what I am getting at. Not that DC is not telling the truth, but that he is telling us what ED told him. And there in lies my concern. What if the information ED fed to DC those last days were not what she truly intended - the return to him on 25/11, the trek in France through the Port de Vanesque, etc.?

That's what I think. She kept just pulling things from the air and inserting them in the conversation. That's where I think "de la Glère" came from. It was a tidbit in some conversation or other, and she tossed it out when convenient, not because she was intending to go there. And that's why she spelled it incorrectly.

 

[patCee]

COVID restrictions made / make the options of travelling through Spain very limited. Spain has been in a state of emercency from the end of October to May 9, 2021 . There would have been areas, regions (and towns) that she was not allowed to enter. The same applies to France, but she would be allowed to pass through on her return home.

So her options were severely limited to none. Meanwhile it seems DC has been busy with promoting books, the BBC interview apart from keeping house. If the level of freedom she felt travelling/hiking was as necessary as it seemed, that leaves a further reason for her to feel as though she'd run out of options, and literally reached the 'end of the road'. A state of mind that could have been distracting whilst negotiating an unfamiliar trail.

 

[RickshawFan]

Look at her Nov 4 post. She says it’s a 4 day excursion and repeats “its good to know it’s only four days.” Is that reassurance to Dan that this is a limited getaway?

But it isn’t only four days. On and on it goes, extension after extension.

I’ve tried to think about this life she craves. IMO, it’s not just about simplicity....it’s about the need to be devoid of responsibility. Even her last treks seem pointless. Walking, climbing, looking, sleeping. Repeat. Repeat.

Her only commitment is to her own body, which she calls her “best friend.” Dan can keep her happy trekking through the mountains all summer, but, once home, in just 3 weeks she’s off...for four days...that become weeks.

Shes a child that wants to live in Disneyland for ever...IMO anyway.

IMO we keep wanting to see more more here than is obvious, perhaps because most of us likely have rich lives with a gazillion complications and commitments. Maybe our search is in vain because ED's and DC's lives aren't like that?

 

[RickshawFan]

So her options were severely limited to none. Meanwhile it seems DC has been busy with promoting books, the BBC interview apart from keeping house. If the level of freedom she felt travelling/hiking was as necessary as it seemed, that leaves a further reason for her to feel as though she'd run out of options, and literally reached the 'end of the road'. A state of mind that could have been distracting whilst negotiating an unfamiliar trail.

There were lots of other places they could have gone, campervan and all, but they seemed fastened to one spot and unable to budge. At any level.
Their plight doesn't seem likely or logical to me, since to me there are bedrock choices (e.g. do I keep campervanning or do I work because I'm out of money?), but I suppose it's easy to sit here and wonder at why they were so unable to move even a tiny bit forward so ED didn't end up solo, in winter, at altitude, against the law, wandering in the Pyrenees.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

There were lots of other places they could have gone, campervan and all, but they seemed fastened to one spot and unable to budge. At any level.

To be fair they did a 3 month / 1000 mile trek across the Alps finishing in October, I'm sure they welcomed a few weeks rest after that! The opportunity to live in a proper house - with a proper bathroom and kitchen and bedroom - must have been very tempting. Perhaps more so for Dan, as it turns out, but once you've committed to house-sitting you can't exactly up and leave.

 

[ZaZara]

To be fair they did a 3 month / 1000 mile trek across the Alps finishing in October, I'm sure they welcomed a few weeks rest after that! The opportunity to live in a proper house - with a proper bathroom and kitchen and bedroom - must have been very tempting. Perhaps more so for Dan, as it turns out, but once you've committed to house-sitting you can't exactly up and leave.

In winter too. It is easier to live in a small campervan when the weather is good and the outdoors your living room. During the colder season it usually becomes more difficult.

 

[PeggyHenry]

That's what I think. She kept just pulling things from the air and inserting them in the conversation. That's where I think "de la Glère" came from. It was a tidbit in some conversation or other, and she tossed it out when convenient, not because she was intending to go there. And that's why she spelled it incorrectly.

Perhaps she didn’t know.. was clutching at straws. Maybe being stuck in a house was quite hellish for her. As a couple they admitted on video that Esther had the ideas. It sounds like she continually came up with ideas for new adventures so that they didn’t have to settle. Knowing the weather was turning colder and days getting shorter, Esther must’ve known that hiking the mountain trails was not going to be possible for much longer. Maybe it was genuinely scary, the prospect of returning to the house. I can understand that she would keep extending her trip. But did it cause her to do more than that? So many aspects to this case ..

 

[stmarysmead]

I’ve been talking often with a single friend, living in a small flat with no outdoor space during this pandemic. It would be heaven for her to be in an isolated farmhouse where she could j0g, do yoga, enjoy every aspect of outdoor living...but she does not have that privilege. There are millions of people in that same onerous position.

‘The three month trek of Dan and Esther was during a worldwide pandemic where we all were called to sacrifice in order to save lives. We have been asked to protect ourselves as well, so as not to burden healthcare services. I will make no judgement here but just state that obvi0us background to this story because it is pertinent to the state of mind of those involved.

IMO, Esther was not going to be grounded, even after three long months, by Dan or by any government. She truly felt this was necessary for her self-care. There is something extreme here in the way this otherwise sensitive and intelligent woman approached any demand that requires compliance that clash with her desire to roam endlessly about. Perhaps there is nothin or no one more important to her than this freedom...because she truly feels it is necessary for her survival.

If she sees coming down from the mountains as some existential threat to her mental and physical health, to what lengths is she willing to go to “save herself.”

For this reason, I have changed my opinion of just a week ago. I think it is possible that she is alive and her sweet personality has attracted someone else to enable this overwhelming need of hers. I watch the videos with the perspective of what so, so many others were enduring. She was only asked to come home to an isolated farm with acres to play in.

Maybe she did have an accident and was trying to do just that. But spend an evening just watching the videos and remember that just three weeks later she had to flee again.

just my opinions as always.

 

[RickshawFan]

To be fair they did a 3 month / 1000 mile trek across the Alps finishing in October, I'm sure they welcomed a few weeks rest after that! The opportunity to live in a proper house - with a proper bathroom and kitchen and bedroom - must have been very tempting. Perhaps more so for Dan, as it turns out, but once you've committed to house-sitting you can't exactly up and leave.

Agreed. I just meant they seem to be in a very stuck place in their lives, and I'm having trouble understanding it.

 

[RickshawFan]

In winter too. It is easier to live in a small campervan when the weather is good and the outdoors your living room. During the colder season it usually becomes more difficult.

I'd head south where the weather is warmer.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Agreed. I just meant they seem to be in a very stuck place in their lives, and I'm having trouble understanding it.

I'm not having trouble understanding it, at all. Six years on the road is a LONG time and they had some pretty big lifestyle changes coming up - Covid, Brexit to name two - to worry about and navigate. Of course there were wobbly moments, totally understandable. Doesn't mean they didn't love each other any more.

 

[PeggyHenry]

I’ve been talking often with a single friend, living in a small flat with no outdoor space during this pandemic. It would be heaven for her to be in an isolated farmhouse where she could j0g, do yoga, enjoy every aspect of outdoor living...but she does not have that privilege. There are millions of people in that same onerous position.

‘The three month trek of Dan and Esther was during a worldwide pandemic where we all were called to sacrifice in order to save lives. We have been asked to protect ourselves as well, so as not to burden healthcare services. I will make no judgement here but just state that obvi0us background to this story because it is pertinent to the state of mind of those involved.

IMO, Esther was not going to be grounded, even after three long months, by Dan or by any government. She truly felt this was necessary for her self-care. There is something extreme here in the way this otherwise sensitive and intelligent woman approached any demand that requires compliance that clash with her desire to roam endlessly about. Perhaps there is nothin or no one more important to her than this freedom...because she truly feels it is necessary for her survival.

If she sees coming down from the mountains as some existential threat to her mental and physical health, to what lengths is she willing to go to “save herself.”

For this reason, I have changed my opinion of just a week ago. I think it is possible that she is alive and her sweet personality has attracted someone else to enable this overwhelming need of hers. I watch the videos with the perspective of what so, so many others were enduring. She was only asked to come home to an isolated farm with acres to play in.

Maybe she did have an accident and was trying to do just that. But spend an evening just watching the videos and remember that just three weeks later she had to flee again.

just my opinions as always.

yes, my opinions and thoughts about possible conclusions change and quite possibly will keep changing. The more you immerse yourself in Esther’ s shoes, the more you read and see of her, you realise she’s not just a one dimensional character - a missing hiker- but a complex multi faceted individual.

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm not having trouble understanding it, at all. Six years on the road is a LONG time and they had some pretty big lifestyle changes coming up - Covid, Brexit to name two - to worry about and navigate. Of course there were wobbly moments, totally understandable. Doesn't mean they didn't love each other any more.

I actually I understand that part, but I feel they could continue their current set up while they made decisions. It seems like they needed at least a bit longer to get things sorted. One thought I had was to continue their road trip in the UK or else head somewhere warmer where they could hang out a bit outside.

 

[RickshawFan]

I’ve been talking often with a single friend, living in a small flat with no outdoor space during this pandemic. It would be heaven for her to be in an isolated farmhouse where she could j0g, do yoga, enjoy every aspect of outdoor living...but she does not have that privilege. There are millions of people in that same onerous position.

Snipped for focus.

I totally agree. I was lucky to move into a house just before COVID. Otherwise, I would have been completely holed up in a small room. I can't imagine how that might have been. We were still allowed to exercise outdoors here, so at least we had that. I know in Europe they didn't have that luxury.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I actually I understand that part, but I feel they could continue their current set up while they made decisions. It seems like they needed at least a bit longer to get things sorted. One thought I had was to continue their road trip in the UK or else head somewhere warmer where they could hang out a bit outside.

Chances are someone couldn't use their second home because of lockdown, and it benefited all parties to have someone living in it for a while - it is not uncommon for Brits to have holiday homes in France and Spain. Many will have stood empty for months through lockdowns, so having a willing friend to look after the place would be a huge bonus right now.

(and why the heck would they want to come back to cold, grey, Covid-riddled England? I'd take the south of France right now too )

 

[stmarysmead]

Chances are someone couldn't use their second home because of lockdown, and it benefited all parties to have someone living in it for a while - it is not uncommon for Brits to have holiday homes in France and Spain. Many will have stood empty for months through lockdowns, so having a willing friend to look after the place would be a huge bonus right now.

(and why the heck would they want to come back to cold, grey, Covid-riddled England? I'd take the south of France right now too )

“They” is not the right word IMO There was no “they” in the final weeks. There was what Esther wanted to do...fun, fun, fun everyday.

Therein lies the simplest solution to this mystery.

 

[RickshawFan]

Chances are someone couldn't use their second home because of lockdown, and it benefited all parties to have someone living in it for a while - it is not uncommon for Brits to have holiday homes in France and Spain. Many will have stood empty for months through lockdowns, so having a willing friend to look after the place would be a huge bonus right now.

(and why the heck would they want to come back to cold, grey, Covid-riddled England? I'd take the south of France right now too )

I was kind of thinking southern Italy.... But a few months in the UK might have got them through COVID and the uncertainties of Brexit while they got sorted, made some decisions, figured out relationship bumps.

They weren't going to be able to linger in France, correct? For that matter, they likely could have got another house-sit? Spain? Portugal? Grindelwald? The Amalfi coast? Hey, now that I think about it, you can buy a house in Italy for a $1: it's a way to re-populate villages or some such.

Heck, ED could go hike the Appalachian Trail. It's quite normal to leave your spouse at home while you re-invent yourself in the wilderness.

True, their situation because of COVID and Brexit wasn't the greatest, but in England, there are millions in that same position. The whole universe, even, is muddling along, millions of people with border crises. We're all in suspension.

Privilege doesn't matter in a world of COVID (whatever the exact straits at your home base), disease is a great leveler (as they found out in the great plagues), and that can be a big shock, too. Perhaps that partly explains ED's and DC's quandaries? Maybe it's the first time in their lives that they've had to cope with the realization they're the same as everyone else?

Having a vehicle (which most people don't), at least gives you a consistent place to sleep and eat. That, too, is a form of privilege. And one that they apparently don't have to give up.

I'm sorry if I sound unkind, but life is not optimal right now for anyone; it is, however, an opportune time to get dreams and wishes clarified, volunteering on the internet, delivering meals to the homebound, tutoring a student who's home alone and behind in school, so many riches...

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I was kind of thinking southern Italy.... But a few months in the UK might have got them through COVID and the uncertainties of Brexit while they got sorted. They weren't going to be able to linger in France, correct? For that matter, they likely could have got another house-sit? Spain? Portugal? Grindelwald?

Esther had already said in an excerpt of the blog posted here a few days ago, that they headed to the south of France because (paraphrased) “the other places got colder”. It also has the landscape they love. And they speak French. Seems like the ideal place for them to aim for, to me, and a helluva lot less chance of catching Covid in those mountains than in the UK.

So I totally get why they chose France. I totally get why Dan wanted a decent rest in a nice house so he could get on with some life admin. And I totally get why Esther, the mountain butterfly, wanted to eke out her adventures for a little bit longer while she could.