Spain - Large Power Outage

[SusanDonim]

There are reports that its the result of the move to renewables due to Net Zero. Apparently, renewables (ie the sun or wind) can't just be turned up or additional facilities brought on line on demand in the same way as traditional sources of energy.

The risks of moving too much to solar and wind power have been known for some time but ignored by politicians and advocates of renewables. I remember reading on Twitter a couple of years ago a very detailed (c50 slide) explanation of why renewables can't be relied on or managed in the same way as traditional power.

This is the future.

"Reports" that all stem from claims made by Kathryn Porter - 'independent energy consultant' and - oh yes - Telegraph journo...

 

[Dotta]

"Blackout in Spain and Portugal -​

consequences for the hotel and catering industry.​

Examples of the impact of the blackout on hotels and restaurants

• Hotels in the Valencia region managed to provide basic services for the most part, with their own generators and solar installations. Guests had access to light, water and food, although in a limited way.
• Major hotels in Barcelona and Madrid maintained basic operations thanks to generators, but transportation chaos made it difficult to serve guests and make staff changes.
• A hotel in Seville improvised by preparing meals for guests on a barbecue in the courtyard.
• Many smaller guesthouses and hostels have had to suspend operations completely due to lack of emergency facilities.
• Candlelight restaurants have tried to continue serving customers despite the restrictions.

How did hoteliers and restaurateurs cope with the crisis?

The best prepared facilities:

• launched their own generators,
• activated crisis procedures,
• ensured the safety of guests and staff,
• minimized losses in food supplies,
• improvised in customer service, changing the offer and payment methods."

More in the link from my country:

Blackout w Hiszpanii i Portugalii – skutki dla hotelarstwa i gastronomii - Horeca Business Club

28 kwietnia 2025 r. doszło do największego od dekad blackoutu obejmującego niemal całą kontynentalną Hiszpanię oraz Portugalię. W ciągu kilku sekund system energetyczny Półwyspu Iberyjskiego uległ awarii, odcinając prąd dziesiątkom milionów ludzi. Skutki tego nagłego zaniku zasilania okazały się...

www.horecabc.pl

 

[Dotta]

Whatever happened, didn't start in Portugal. Still looking to find out if it was in Spain or France, but all signs point to France.

BBM

All signs point to Spain,
NOT France

"Almost at high noon​

The Spanish grid collapsed around 12:30.

Within a quarter of an hour, power consumption dropped by half, from over 25 to 12.5 GW, and within a dozen or so minutes it reached, as it turned out later, the minimum level – 10.5 GW.

The blackout in Spain immediately spread to Portugal,
also because the Portuguese were importing a lot of energy from their neighbors.
The blackout, known here as 'apãgao'
affected the entire country.

After about two hours,
Portuguese power engineers put the Tapada do Outeiro gas-fired power plant into black start mode
(i.e. starting the system from scratch),
then other available hydroelectric and gas capacities, and gradually began to restore power.

First to the Porto and Santarem regions, and in the evening, the Portuguese transmission operator REN estimated that the Lisbon region should be able to restore power within a few hours.
In the evening, the Portuguese system was also using limited power from Spain.

The Spanish blackout also reached France,
where the lights went out for a few minutes in the French part of the Basque Country.

The French quickly dealt with the situation,
especially since the Spanish grid had already disconnected from them.

Shortly after the resynchronization,
the French operator RTE provided inter-operator assistance to its colleagues from the south,
delivering an additional 700 MW.

The French declared that they could deliver 950 MW,
if the Spanish system could accept that much."

More in the link from my country:

Blackout w Hiszpanii: to był potężny "Apagón" - WysokieNapiecie.pl

Blackout w Hiszpanii i Portugalii to największe tego typu zjawisko w Europie od lat. Co było przyczyną zaniku zasilania u kilkudziesięciu milionów Europejczyków? Dlaczego Polska jest dziś w lepszej sytuacji niż Hiszpania i Portugalia, ale w gorszej niż Niemcy?

wysokienapiecie.pl

 

[MelmothTheLost]

"Reports" that all stem from claims made by Kathryn Porter - 'independent energy consultant' and - oh yes - Telegraph journo...

Except that Spain's national grid operator has been warning for several months that over-reliance on "green" sources of power could cause widespread outages.

Four die due to ventilator failures during Spain blackouts

REE's Operations Chief today admitted that it was possible that solar power could be to blame for Monday's outages, but added that it was too early to say for sure.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The drive to replace fossil fuels with "green" energy sources is being driven by politicians and environmental activists, not by ordinary people or those involved in the provision of stable power supplies.

 

[Lusitana]

I'm struggling to understand how the weather could cause complete power loss to at least 2 countries. It does seem more likely it's some sort of cyber attack, but that would be admitting a weakness and panic with stockpiling would likely happen. It'll be interesting to see how things unfold in the next few days.

I hope everyone there can stay safe, we forget how reliant we are on electricity and internet now.

Everything is back to normal where I am.

 

[PrairieWind]

Everything is back to normal where I am.

That is good to hear.

 

[tarabull]

Spain, Portugal switch back on, seek answers after biggest ever blackout​

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spains-power-generation-nearly-back-normal-after-monday-blackout-says-grid-2025-04-29/

 

[tarabull]

Snipped...
...While investigators are still trying to figure out the cause of the mass blackout, experts say restarting the grid after an outage is tricky and would have to strike a good balance or risk bringing about another one.

How engineers got power back on after Spain and Portugal's blackout

Monday's unprecedented power outage left much of the Iberian Peninsula in the dark. This is how operators got electricity flowing again on after the blackout.

www.euronews.com

eta: snip

 

[SusanDonim]

Except that Spain's national grid operator has been warning for several months that over-reliance on "green" sources of power could cause widespread outages.

Four die due to ventilator failures during Spain blackouts

REE's Operations Chief today admitted that it was possible that solar power could be to blame for Monday's outages, but added that it was too early to say for sure.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The drive to replace fossil fuels with "green" energy sources is being driven by politicians and environmental activists, not by ordinary people or those involved in the provision of stable power supplies.

That you use quotes around green means I won't engage further.

 

[Lusitana]

The problem with Portugal is that the country isn't taking the power issue seriously. Relying on Spain and France to have power is dumb. If green energy was the issue, we have lots of waves, wind and sun. They're just not investing on it, for some reason not a priority.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

The problem with Portugal is that the country isn't taking the power issue seriously. Relying on Spain and France to have power is dumb. If green energy was the issue, we have lots of waves, wind and sun. They're just not investing on it, for some reason not a priority.

Tidal or wave power isn't "there" yet, otherwise it would be a slam dunk for the UK.

The problem with lots of solar and wind power is that a week or two ago, Spain managed to run entirely for 24 hours on renewable power. Yet a week or two later the entire grid fell over precisely because solar and wind power is unreliable. Solar still works to a reduced extent under heavy cloud cover but if the wind just stops that's it. There's no mechanism for making the wind blow if atmospheric conditions mean there is no wind, eg in a high pressure area, until the atmosphere rearranges itself.

Incidentally, there's been a growing awareness of a phenomenon which has been named "global stilling", ie measurements of wind speed at different points across the globe indicate that average wind speeds around 10m above the surface have been falling for some time. Most of the research papers only look at the last few decades, but the initial awareness that there might be a problem dates from the 1890s.

This is in addition to "global dimming", the observation that less sunlight is reaching the earth's surface than used to be the case historically, largely due to particulate matter in the atmosphere.

It's worth noting that at least four people died during the blackout due to their ventilators failing.

 

[Dotta]

"Did renewable energy cause a blackout in Spain?​

In recent years,
Spain has emerged as a European leader in the green transformation,
and today more than half of the country's electricity comes from renewable sources, primarily wind and solar.

On the day of the outage,
almost the entire energy system was based solely on photovoltaics,
as solar energy accounted for 75% of the country's total production,
but these sources are unable to stabilize in the event of sudden changes.

When a sudden disruption occurred,
the grid had nothing to defend itself with.

This is when more stable sources,
such as gas and nuclear power plants, should have stepped in.
The problem is that... they switched off.

Spain has five nuclear power plants that normally provide stable and predictable energy production.

However,
in the event of a sudden disruption,
such as a sudden drop in frequency or voltage in the grid,
an automatic safety system is activated that disconnects the reactors to prevent damage.

This is exactly what happened during the last crisis,
and the units were disconnected from the grid as part of a standard protective procedure.

Experts also emphasize
that Spain did not have sufficient reserves in the form of gas or hydroelectric power plants that could quickly respond to declines in RES production.

The Spanish operator drew attention to another important aspect,
which is the exceptionally limited interconnections of the Iberian Peninsula with the rest of Europe.

The only real support in crisis situations remains the transmission lines to France with a capacity of 2.5 GW,
which (as the operator admitted)
is only a symbolic lifeline given the scale of the entire energy system for the region.

When this connection collapsed,
the entire system lost its support and ceased to function."

Much more in the link

Czy OZE wywołały blackout w Hiszpanii?

Blackout na Półwyspie Iberyjskim sparaliżował życie codzienne ponad 55 milionów osób. Choć sytuacja została w większości opanowana, pytania o przyczyny tej energetycznej katastrofy wciąż pozostają bez odpowiedzi, a wskazywanie palcem w stronę OZE wywołuje polityczne i społeczne napięcia.

energetyka24.com

 

[Dotta]

"Post-blackout in Spain and Portugal,​

companies count the cost.​

Spain's main business lobby CEOE estimated
the outage would shave 1.6 billion euros ($1.82 billion), or 0.1%, off gross domestic product,
noting it could take oil refineries a week or more to resume their operations fully,
and that some industrial ovens had been damaged.

The meat industry estimated losses of up to 190 million euros
as fridges lost power, among other factors.
The blackout lasted more than 12 hours in some areas of Spain.

Industry faced some of the biggest challenges, at Volkswagen's
plant in the Navarra region.
Volkswagen's Spanish brand SEAT also said output at its Barcelona plant,
where around 14,000 people work,
was not fully restored to normal operations after power supply returned at 1 a.m local time."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/post-blackout-spain-portugal-companies-count-cost-2025-04-29/

 

[Lusitana]

Tidal or wave power isn't "there" yet, otherwise it would be a slam dunk for the UK.

The problem with lots of solar and wind power is that a week or two ago, Spain managed to run entirely for 24 hours on renewable power. Yet a week or two later the entire grid fell over precisely because solar and wind power is unreliable. Solar still works to a reduced extent under heavy cloud cover but if the wind just stops that's it. There's no mechanism for making the wind blow if atmospheric conditions mean there is no wind, eg in a high pressure area, until the atmosphere rearranges itself.

Incidentally, there's been a growing awareness of a phenomenon which has been named "global stilling", ie measurements of wind speed at different points across the globe indicate that average wind speeds around 10m above the surface have been falling for some time. Most of the research papers only look at the last few decades, but the initial awareness that there might be a problem dates from the 1890s.

This is in addition to "global dimming", the observation that less sunlight is reaching the earth's surface than used to be the case historically, largely due to particulate matter in the atmosphere.

It's worth noting that at least four people died during the blackout due to their ventilators failing.

Like I said, it needs investment and work. Portugal has a really large EEZ comparatively to its land size. So, if it was "there" I can only imagine it would be a tremendous factor. This issue has been discussed regarding Portugal since the late 70's lol, it's dumb to not go into it at this point. It actually has been tested a little but it needs more investment and experimenting.

Green energy needs to be developed more, clearly. But it IS better for everyone. I'm not saying to end all previous sources of energy, it should be gradual and done with actual knowledge instead of based on hopes and dreams, BUT if nobody does it because it's not "there" yet then how the heck is it ever going to be "there"?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Like I said, it needs investment and work. Portugal has a really large EEZ comparatively to its land size. So, if it was "there" I can only imagine it would be a tremendous factor. This issue has been discussed regarding Portugal since the late 70's lol, it's dumb to not go into it at this point. It actually has been tested a little but it needs more investment and experimenting.

Maybe I wasn't clear as to what I meant by "there". This isn't a question of place but one of whether the technology is at a stage yet when it can be used at the sort of scale that would be required. There are a number of experimental designs of buoys and similar mechanisms which are being trialed and evaluated, but none of them seem to be without significant issues which need to be resolved. Obviously, solar panels and wind turbines also went through a similar period of design and experimentation before they were "got right", but tidal power is still a significant way behind them.

Green energy needs to be developed more, clearly. But it IS better for everyone. I'm not saying to end all previous sources of energy, it should be gradual and done with actual knowledge instead of based on hopes and dreams, BUT if nobody does it because it's not "there" yet then how the heck is it ever going to be "there"?

From what I have seen, there is a place for renewable forms of energy, but it would appear to be very dangerous to do away with older forms of power generation entirely. What is not well known is that traditional power stations keep power in reserve which can be turned up very quickly where necessary.

Imagine a power station with four turbines. One of these is likely to be not generating at any one time. The other three will be operating and generating power but not at full capacity. One may be operating at 50% and two at 75%. The fact that those turbines are already operating but with spare capacity means that they can be "dialled up" in, say, steps of 5% at a time to meet an increase in demand. This allows the grid to respond to increased demand while starting up the fourth idle turbine in case of emergency. An operating turbine can be turned up very quickly, but turning on an idle turbine can take several hours before it fully comes on stream, hence holding capacity in reserve with the other three turbines. In practice, a lot of turbine and generating responsiveness is automated or computer-controlled these days which helps ensure that demand and capacity is managed seamlessly as far as possible.

 

[PrairieWind]

That you use quotes around green means I won't engage further.

It could be that there is open discussion of what "green" means. If you just ignore an argument because "green" is in quotes, you are just deciding you wont acknowledge and participate in discussions that are on-going.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

It could be that there is open discussion of what "green" means. If you just ignore an argument because "green" is in quotes, you are just deciding you wont acknowledge and participate in discussions that are on-going.

Well, quite. There's a difference between green and "green" (ie greenwashing), as anyone who has read about the controversy over the Drax power station in the UK is aware.

For those not aware, Drax is one of the UK's biggest power stations. Originally it used coal from the neighbouring coalfield but its plant and equipment were replaced decades ago for ones which used natural gas from the North Sea gasfields. Several years ago they were replaced again to burn biomass.

To produce the biomass, virgin forest is felled in British Colombia, Mississippi and along the US's eastern seaboard. The timber is turned into wood pellets which are shipped across the Atlantic to be burned in Yorkshire. This is apparently more "green" than burning natural gas produced in the North Sea.

Type "Drax wood pellets scandal" into YouTube to find a number of reports about the matter.

 

[FromGermany1]

Britain struck by unusual power activity hours before blackouts in Spain and Portugal

Britain’s grid operator confirms it is investigating unexplained changes in electricity frequency seen on Sunday

www.independent.co.uk

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Britain struck by unusual power activity hours before blackouts in Spain and Portugal

Britain’s grid operator confirms it is investigating unexplained changes in electricity frequency seen on Sunday

www.independent.co.uk

I imagine whoever is looking into this will be looking into whether there could have been any Russian involvement. I'm not usually one for conspiracy theories but it appears that the UK is currently the specific target of a number of incidents with Russian connections.

 

[Dotta]

"The EU demands reports​

Under EU energy crisis rules,
Portugal and Spain must submit reports to the European Commission by the end of July
on the causes, effects and response to Monday's blackout.

In parallel,
a panel of network operator experts,
led by a neutral party,
will conduct a technical investigation.

An interim report is due in October,
with a final report by September 2026.

The results of both reports will go to the EU’s Energy Coordination Group,
which may recommend further action or regulatory changes."

More in the link

Nadmiar odnawialnych źródeł energii nie był przyczyną blackout’u na Półwyspie Iberyjskim

Produkcja energii z odnawialnych źródeł nie była przyczyną blackout’u, który dotknął Hiszpanię, Portugalię i części Francji, a przed awarią nie zaobserwowano żadnych anomalii w strukturze generacji – poinformowali przedstawiciele sektora energetycznego.

biznesalert.pl