Special needs child "voted" out of classroom

[MagicRose99]

Omg. Did you open a can of worms! I have a daughter in 5th grade that has a learning disability and for 3 yrs was in speacial education classes (oh the shock and horror:crazy, for the past two yrs she's been in regular classes. Guess what she is an AB honor role student because of the skills they gave her in the special classes and she doesn't need them now. She's not a lost cause. These special education classes aren't just set up for kids with severe disabilities but mild ones too. In often cases with the proper type of teaching and coaching a lot of the kids with mild disabilities and over come them and yes, be productive adults.

I also have a 3 yr old who is mildly autistic. He is so far ahead of most of the kids in his preschool class but I probably should just take him out now since there is no hope? You don't know that and neither does anyone else at this point and time.

Thank you!

My daughter too had learning disabilities. They gave her special tutoring/aid at school and taught her how to overcome her learning disabilities. She went from not being able to put thoughts down on paper to a Sophmore at University, holding As and Bs.

Wasted money?!?! I don't think so.... I vote... I pay taxes... MY taxes helped my child...

 

[bigbuck]

True story bigbuck....
I'm at a store with dd (who, btw, LOOKS like any normal 7yr old..at the time); she throws the biggest tantrum I've ever seen....major embarrassing...I'm sure we've all been there, done that...Anyway, some old be0tch had the nerve to make some dum@ss comment about controlling my child and how awful she was while in line at the register...
At first I just ignored her, then after the 3rd comment I *politely* turned and said "mamam, she's autistic, would you suggest I leave her home, lock her in the attic and never bring her anywhere so she doesn't disrupt people like you? and *politely* turned back around.
Your comment just made me think about that. The truth is this kind of thing as happened more times than it should have...How can people be so mean and bawlsy to comment when they have no idea what's going on!!

Unfortunatley czech it's easier for people to be mean, bawlsy and blame us parents for our childrens behaviors. Then it is for them to try and understand what we and our disabled children are going through.

Xcom my friend your the bomb! I so wish I could post like you!

 

[Moe]

I'm not going to respond because I would be banned if I said how I'm feeling right now. I think I might just cry instead, what an ignorant mean spirited post.

 

[XcomSquaddie]

Xcom my friend your the bomb! I so wish I could post like you!

I'm glad you liked it.

 

[czechmate7]

I'm not going to respond because I would be banned if I said how I'm feeling right now. I think I might just cry instead, what an ignorant mean spirited post.

((Moe)) Don't let the ignorance of one poster get you down. Apparently this poster has never walked in any of our shoes...should I send you my "Welcome to Holland" poem to cheer you up?????

 

[bigbuck]

I'm glad you liked it.

Loved it man! My son Marco just pointed to your avatar and, said SCARY CACTUS!

 

[Taximom]

NaNaRosebud, please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you've previously stated here at WS that you are a teacher and have taught spec ed children or children with behavior issues? I truly don't understand your comment which says (to me) that we are wasting money on these children!

I think perhaps another thread should be opened if we continue the discussion about this aspect, frankly.

 

[sherri79]

This country and the states spend MILIONS on special education children and behavior disordered children.

Most of these children will never be accountable for the money that has been spent on them. They won't be able to handle a regular job. They won't be paying taxes. THey will probably be on some type of government program for the rest of their lives.

The government forces school districts to spend this money on them while the regular education child gets textbooks, supplies, and other things cut in their classroom.

I know this post is going to anger many people here, but what I say is true.

In the future when other countries have more intelligent people than we do, we'll realize that we have been dumbed down by rules that should be modified.

yes it angers many people here because your post implies that a education is only for those that you see as worthy. if the government has a duty to provide a quality education for any child it has the same duty for every child. "We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." other countries may treat disabled children as less than normal children but those countries do not have those famous words to lead them. do we really want a country that decides based on a matter of birth what children should be educated? perhaps we could turn back time to when children received a education based on race or the sex of the child. after all discrimination is not suddenly called something else simply because the reason you want one class of citizens treated as less changes.

 

[XcomSquaddie]

Loved it man! My son Marco just pointed to your avatar and, said SCARY CACTUS!

LOL. It's a critter from an old video game I used to play.

(It didn't scare him did it?)

 

[XcomSquaddie]

I think perhaps another thread should be opened if we continue the discussion about this aspect, frankly.

<snicker> That'd be a real ugly thread...

 

[SuziQ]

NaNaRosebud, please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you've previously stated here at WS that you are a teacher and have taught spec ed children or children with behavior issues? I truly don't understand your comment which says (to me) that we are wasting money on these children!

I think perhaps another thread should be opened if we continue the discussion about this aspect, frankly.

That's extremely worrisome to me.

ETA: Actually, that scares the bejesus out of me.

 

[Beyond Belief]

montel has parent on show right now talking about autism.

 

[athy]

my daughter was a special needs child as she has dyslexia. one of her teachers kept telling her she'd never get anywhere in life. i fought with the school board to put her in a different school and with kids her own age with special needs. once she was put there she was on the honor roll thru her high school years. she's now in college and has a 3.8 average doing double majors to become an optomitrist. so much for that teacher saying she'll never get anywhere. yeah she still has trouble spelling it just doesn't click in her head but she's extremely intelligent and even with the trouble with spelling a 3.8 average isn't too bad...

one proud mom of a special needs child (adult now)

 

[Diamond]

This country and the states spend MILIONS on special education children and behavior disordered children.

Most of these children will never be accountable for the money that has been spent on them. They won't be able to handle a regular job. They won't be paying taxes. THey will probably be on some type of government program for the rest of their lives.

The government forces school districts to spend this money on them while the regular education child gets textbooks, supplies, and other things cut in their classroom.

I know this post is going to anger many people here, but what I say is true.

In the future when other countries have more intelligent people than we do, we'll realize that we have been dumbed down by rules that should be modified.

Apparently, it's not entirely free, because I was asked to sign a paper for the district to get some reimbursement from our insurance. One of our kids is in the process of being tested and diagnosed (w/our own cash & worthless insurance), although he's been getting services for a couple or so years.

Plus, we pay taxes...dad pays plenty. Not to mention, the family members we have lost who paid into social security all their lives, only to die before being able to collect it. I'd say, they're still far ahead and it's the least they could do. Although, if it's a problem...I'll gladly take back the money my family has forked over and they can clean their hands of him.

 

[kygal]

Kygal, you just described my nephew. I completely understand how challenging your day was and I appreciate the compassion you showed toward your student especially since it is obvious from your post that you didn't get the support you should have had from your district.
The fact is that every child deserves an education. If the training wasn't there for you or the other teachers, the district should have invested in it.
Since there are 1 in 150 kids with autism, it might be time for educators to learn how to teach these kids. If not, lets just set up group homes on every corner and be prepared to support them for the rest of their lives.
Regardless, nothing excuses the teacher in this case from abusing this child.

Csds, I agree completely. Part of the reason I left the classroom was due to the fact that the Principal/Superintendent (it was a private school) refused to allow any sort of special education accomodations for him. He was anti-Special Ed in ALL cases and was known to say that it was just a way for the States to waste money.

In Kentucky, the state only requires Middle and High School teacher prep to have ONE class on special ed laws and regulations. I think Elementary has TWO -- the first and the other is about how to deal with them (I think -- I'm Secondary Ed). School districts here are basically struggling to keep doors open, and they're actually reducing special ed trainings here.

I did a lot of the research on my own -- and boy did that turn out to be a mistake on my part. I was constantly on the proverbial carpet for something dealing with how I handled some situation. I guess I tried to help ALL the kids the same way I did them -- and I never had a single problem with any of the kids. Wish I could say the same of the adults. I requested to go to a conference held in Frankfort by the State DOE about Autism -- it was denied as a "waste of time and money" and "they didn't see paying a sub for something so silly."

My certification ran out based on a technicality (I apparently didn't teach enough of the 5 year term to get it reinstated). I have thought about going back undergrad to do either elementary (I have Secondary now) or Special Education. I REALLY was wanting to do guidance counseling, but I would now have to start over after my certification is reinstated because it has to be continuous while in the program. Right now I'm evaluating what I would need class-wise and just how much it will cost. If I go back into the classroom -- it will NOT be high school for sure.

 

[Dena]

This country and the states spend MILIONS on special education children and behavior disordered children.

Most of these children will never be accountable for the money that has been spent on them. They won't be able to handle a regular job. They won't be paying taxes. THey will probably be on some type of government program for the rest of their lives.

The government forces school districts to spend this money on them while the regular education child gets textbooks, supplies, and other things cut in their classroom.

I know this post is going to anger many people here, but what I say is true.

In the future when other countries have more intelligent people than we do, we'll realize that we have been dumbed down by rules that should be modified.

:furious::furious::furious::furious:

Please tell me this a joke!!!
I can't believe I am even going to respond to such ignorance.

So you're saying there is no hope for special needs children, so just don't help them?

These programs are around to help children, and while they may not help 100&#37; of children with special needs, I can tell you that they helped my child do a complete 180 in a few months. These programs help children through difficult times in early development and without these programs many of these children would not be on par by the time they get into first grade.

Yes, education needs to fixed in many many areas, but the fault does not lie with special needs children. If "what you say is true" then please direct me to the DOCUMENTED FACTS that special needs children take text books away from the regular students.

The truth of the matter is, the states and government do not take care of our special needs children 100%, I have to pay for speech, I have to pay for school, my insurance has covered his tests.

ETA: And you're a special education teacher??? God help our children.

 

[BarnGoddess]

This country and the states spend MILIONS on special education children and behavior disordered children.

Most of these children will never be accountable for the money that has been spent on them. They won't be able to handle a regular job. They won't be paying taxes. THey will probably be on some type of government program for the rest of their lives.

The government forces school districts to spend this money on them while the regular education child gets textbooks, supplies, and other things cut in their classroom.

I know this post is going to anger many people here, but what I say is true.

In the future when other countries have more intelligent people than we do, we'll realize that we have been dumbed down by rules that should be modified.

I do agree that mainstream children are suffering along with those who have disabilities and disorders.

That's where my agreement with you ends!!!

I've read of the successes of fellow posters children who would have been "thrown away" without intervention of parents and the support and help from enlightened school officials to the rescue. I have posted several times about my youngest being called stupid and dumb by his third grade teacher. The outcome was expensive testing with a long waiting list expidited and his placement into a Gifted LD program for the rest of his school career. He also went on to college and did amazingly well in architecture courses, his talent. Even in college he had amazing educators who assisted him with his auditory disability getting oral instructions screwed up in his brain.

Thanks to all you posters with learning disabled children that fought for their right to an education with amazing success !!!!!!:blowkiss:

 

[Details]

I do not know what the full intent of the post or poster was - but - she did not say that special needs kids should not be educated, let alone make the more severe statements people are responding as if were made.

And I can see that there is a line to look at here. Taxpayers only give so much money for the schools. We have to decide how much goes to where. A special needs child who can be helped, brought to a point where they function at or near (or above!) the same level as any other child - that's great and worth spending quite a fair bit to accomplish. But there's also some with far more severe problems that will require a huge quantity of resources for extremely limited results. And there's all of the other children to consider. With limited funds - and this really is a zero sum game unless you can convince taxpayers to pony up more money - do you severely diminish the education for 1000 students to help a very few severely disabled children?

Obviously the answer is never to go all the way to one side - use up the entire school budget on special needs children and eliminate all books, equipment and teachers for all others - or - give up on all children who require any help at all. But where we meet in the middle is something that we have to consider.

Every child has a right to an education - but to what degree? I think every child has a right to have the basics - a classroom, a teacher, books, an appropriate curriculum and such. But, when schools so often barely have enough money to cover these basics, how far are we willing to hurt the education of the next generation for how many special needs children? And to be clear - there's a lot of different levels -there's the children who need a teacher with some extra education and a smaller class size - but there's the children who need 1 on 1 continual attention from a nurse and 5 specialists to learn the alphabet by age 15, etc. - there are levels of help that are affordable and cost effective, and there are levels that I do not think are appropriate.


It's hard, I'm sure, and beyond what I know, to have a child who has special needs. But I don't think we can or should forget about all of the children - the average child who will either get enough education and desire to learn to get them a fairly decent job, or will lose out, and end up uneducated because they were in a huge class where no teacher could take a minute for them, with out of date books that fail to give them skills to succeed. The gifted child, who can either be challenged, and come up with a cure for autism, cancer, or solve the middle east, or left bored and drop out.

As a society, we have to consider the welfare of everyone, find the middle ground that gives the best result for everyone - with attention paid to the individual cases, those who have above average difficulties - but paying attention to what this will cost the rest of the students, what type of results are possible, and how much is it worth to gain those results.

Until we get unlimited money, unlimited resources, the truth is that everything in life has to be measured as a cost-benefit analysis. And there's a lot of benefit for special education - up to a point. Beyond a point, there's little benefit (again, the child so severely disabled it would take 5 specialists full time to teach them the alphabet by age 15 as my hypothetical extreme example). Many here have talked about the lesser cases - children able to learn who need some special help. But I think the original poster, especially if she is a special education teacher, is talking of the extreme cases who require much more 'cost' for immensely less 'benefit' to the child. And of course we help those children. But how much is the question - how far can or should we go. One specially educated teacher per 5 students? One per 2? One per 1? 5 teachers on 1? There's a point to draw the line, especially when every shift means fewer teachers and larger classes for many other students.

 

[BarnGoddess]

Quote: Details

It's hard, I'm sure, and beyond what I know, to have a child who has special needs. But I don't think we can or should forget about all of the children - the average child who will either get enough education and desire to learn to get them a fairly decent job, or will lose out, and end up uneducated because they were in a huge class where no teacher could take a minute for them, with out of date books that fail to give them skills to succeed. The gifted child, who can either be challenged, and come up with a cure for autism, cancer, or solve the middle east, or left bored and drop out.

As a society, we have to consider the welfare of everyone, find the middle ground that gives the best result for everyone - with attention paid to the individual cases, those who have above average difficulties - but paying attention to what this will cost the rest of the students, what type of results are possible, and how much is it worth to gain those results.

You are fortunate not to have a child who has a "need", whether from a physical or mental disability or even super ability. To teach to the "average" or "mainstream" and totally ignore that child who, once is diagnosed, may indeed find that cure for cancer.

We have gone so far to "dumb" down our kids, by insuring that every child is thrown into a class and taught to the "average".

Years ago we did something that is now "apalling" and "outrageous", "discriminatory" and "unacceptable". I should know as both of my parents were educators. From an early age we were "evaluated" by our teachers and placed in a particular class. I went to a fairly large elementary school that had about 4 to 5 classes in each grade. this was back in the fifties. We had one teacher for each grade, from 1 to 6. A music and art teacher rotated, but all subjects were covered by one teacher. We were basically put into a "track system". Those of approximately at the same leaning "speed" were lumped into a class while others with either lower or higher speeds were in another. It may change from year to year depending on individual progress or lack thereof. I do remember distinctly that in the fifth grade that we had a teacher who emphasized science, one who really loved and imparted history and the dreaded (to me) Mrs. Ritchie, the sour math nut. I was in the history nut's class, LOL. This even continued into Jr. High. Our "home room" class traveled from teacher to teacher in the same group. By Sr. High, we were basically on our own. This method was subtle and never mentioned, but obviously highly successful in giving many of us a positive school experience and successful and productive lives.

Today, we just can't discriminate or group our children into peer groups. It might hurt someone's feelings. So, instead of taking all those children who would earn A's and B's and placing them in classes with others similarly inclined, and giving all those low C's and D's a different class where they can actually learn something, we mix them up and the A's and D's eventually all become C's.

I was constantly amazed when I would take my dad out to eat and enjoy a bit of nightlife later in life when a lot of my high school friends would come over and sit and talk with dad about how much of an impact they had made on his life. He had one class of remedial math (lovingly called "football" math) and many kids were able to get over the "duh" and go on to higher math. He just had a 1000 ways of imparting 1 + 1 = 2. I don't know how he did it, but he could get the logic over and the door would open and the light shine through to these students.

 

[Details]

Oh - my child has needs - just not anything to the degree of many others. She's speech delayed - we've finally got a word or so out of her - and, she's obviously very intelligent.

I agree - students need to be put in a track with others of similar educational levels - ideally without regard to grade or age (a child who is old enough for the 5th grade, but knows less than the 4th graders does not belong in the 5th grade - it only hurts them to fall further and further behind their classmates). It helps let everyone have a chance to shine, to not feel either intimidated by their classmates or bored by a class going too slow for them. You put a high achiever in an average class, and they'll tune out. You put a low achiever in with a class with high achievers, and they'll be intimidated, and decide they're no good at school so they shouldn't try. It's no good for anyone.

I'd love to see every grade level set up with at least 2 to 3 tracks, let students move between them as their grades and scores indicate they can handle.


But now, we're even more far afield.