'Splain' this 1 for me please....About Bedwetters:

[julianne]

I myself feel less concerned about the bedwetting per se, and more about the defecation problems I've heard Jonbenet was having.

If that was so...that really wasn't normal.

Agreed...if that was true, it wasn't normal.

I have heard of this before, also, however I haven't been able to find any real confirmation on this. I know that Patsy was being questioned along those lines in one of the interviews...and Patsy herself replied something to the effect of it wasn't an issue of her actually soiling her pants, it was more of a wiping issue, i.e., young children don't wipe as well and thoroughly as they should. So there would be evidence of that (skid marks) in her panties at times. That is completely different than actually defacating in ones pants.

Now, other people have posted that she did, in fact, have a problem of soiling her pants, and the poster said that statement came from someone that said JonBenet did soil her pants. I forget who the person was who made the statement, maybe some therapist or medical doctor, but they weren't someone who was integral in the investigation, or even involved in the investigation at all. It wasn't from anyone who would have first hand knowledge of this or anything else in the case. So, I surmise that it is just more unfounded inuendo--there is no shortage of that in this case.

The housekeeper reportedly said that she saw JonBenets panties soaking in the sink on occasions--but she didn't say it was because JonBenet had a habit of defacating in her pants. It could very well be that they were soaking due to stains from ineffective wiping.

Now, I'm sure if I am wrong, somebody will correct me. As I said, I haven't seen any report validating the soiling issue from someone who would actually know---only from 3rd parties who aren't involved, and the ever famous he said that she said that he said, etc.

Until proven otherwise, I have to believe that the occasional ineffective wiping turned into full blown defacation and soiling episodes by some who, for whatever reason, wanted their 15 minutes of fame to be quasi-associated with this case or had an entirely different agenda altogether.

Just my opinion & it can be changed with something tangible & substantial coming from the mouth of someone who would have reason to know...so if anyone has that, I would love to see a link...

 

[narlacat]

I understand what you're saying, but it is also true that a major traumatic event can cause short and long term memory loss. That is a proven scientific fact. Don't know if it applies in this case, just saying that it is entirely plausible when she states she doesn't remember, that she really doesn't. You cant get much more of major traumatic event than your child being murdered.

Her memory was selective.
She remembered alot when it came to other people that could be viewed as possible suspects, just not when it came to her daughter or the specifics of that night.

 

[Becba]

I always took my little ones to potty even though they were potty trained.

I cannot imagine not taking a child to the toilet knowing she wets the bed.

 

[Becba]

You're right--it really isn't so unusual. I've worked in pediatric medical offices, and a 5 year old in pull-ups is not such an unusual occurrence as some would think.

For that matter, the daytime accidents also happen with children of that age more frequently than one would think. It is not common for a pediatric urologist to see patients for this reason.

And blame bubble bathes for urinary tract infections? Most parents would stop bubble bathes. Ask any doctor, ask your gynocologist, they will tell you only nuns in a convent don't get urinary tract infections. It is from sex. Usually oral sex. Google it.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Housekeeper LHP said JonBenet left a fecal stain the size of a grapefruit in her bed - that's more than just a skid mark here and there.

Burke said JonBenet's incontinence was a big issue, and so did LHP, despite Patsy's claim that it wasn't. I'm more inclined to believe what Burke and LHP have to say over chronic Ramnesiac Patsy.

On that issue, Patsy can tell you exact details about her stint as Miss West Virginia, where she went, who she talked to, and about what...she can provide exact details about her cancer treatments, who she met, where she stayed, what gifts she gave to others...Patsy can tell people exactly what ornament came from where and was on which of the eight Christmas trees in the 1995 Boulder Parade of Homes Tour...but she can't tell you what JonBenet ate or if she had a bath the last day she was alive. That's selective memory loss, and she only does it when it's convenient for her to be unsure about details about her daughter's murder. Patsy is a liar, and not a very good one.

Patsy never took JonBenet to a pediatric urologist, which I find interesting...they claim they visited Dr Beuf so many times because they had such good health insurance and used it freely - why didn't they take their daughter to see a pediatric urologist? I think it's because Patsy knew JB was being abused and Beuf would cover for her, but there was no guarantee anyone else would. There's no other reason for a child suffering from chronic toileting issues to not be seen by a specialist, in my mind.

The first time my young daughter got vaginitis from a bubble bath would be the very last time she ever took a bath with bubbles in it. Most girls JB's age are completely unaware they even have a vagina, because they never experience itching or irritation in it. The fact that JB was treated for vaginal issues more than once should raise a red flag to any adult. That's just not right.

 

[JBean]

And blame bubble bathes for urinary tract infections? Most parents would stop bubble bathes. Ask any doctor, ask your gynocologist, they will tell you only nuns in a convent don't get urinary tract infections. It is from sex. Usually oral sex. Google it.

Oh good gravy.
UTI's happen in little girls. JBR may have been one of those children that delays going to the bathroom. I had one like that. He just didn;t want to take time out of his day to go potty.Too many better things to do. This is frquently the cause of wetting and UTI's in little girls.While it may not be "common" it certainly is out there and probably affects many little girls. I was prone to UTI's when I was young for no apparent reason.

Many young girls get UTI's from wiping back to front instead of front to back and get bacteria in the urethra. I don't think it as common in very young girls, but it is as girls get older, has zero to do with sex...zero.

okay that was off the top of my head, here is the first link I came to to support:
http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/utichildren/index.htm#prevent

 

[eve]

Oh good gravy.
UTI's happen in little girls. JBR may have been one of those children that delays going to the bathroom. I had one like that. He just didn;t want to take time out of his day to go potty.Too many better things to do. This is frquently the cause of wetting and UTI's in little girls.While it may not be "common" it certainly is out there and probably affects many little girls. I was prone to UTI's when I was young for no apparent reason.

Many young girls get UTI's from wiping back to front instead of front to back and get bacteria in the urethra. I don't think it as common in very young girls, but it is as girls get older, has zero to do with sex...zero.

okay that was off the top of my head, here is the first link I came to to support:
http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/utichildren/index.htm#prevent

I agree JBean, my daughter had a UTI at about 3 and the culprit was two-fold, incomplete wiping and a bubble bath product that was in her Christmas stocking. We promptly stopped all bubble baths and I supervised her hygiene more closely until she got the hang of it. No big.

That being said, JBR obviously had ongoing issues with all this and the repeated doc visits centering on these problems sure would have sent me to a specialist. It's likely, I think, that the doc was looking the other way, much to Patsy's relief. Someone was abusing that girl, somehow. Also, the way she was dressed up for pageants to appear to be a sexualized mini-adult MUST have had a psychological effect on her - the combination of that and sexual abuse = the regression in toilet habits?


Eve

 

[BBB167893]

"I understand what you're saying, but it is also true that a major traumatic event can cause short and long term memory loss."

I don't know. I can remember 9/11 like it happened yesterday. My mom can still remember what she was doing when she heard JFK had been shot.

"Her memory was selective.She remembered alot when it came to other people that could be viewed as possible suspects, just not when it came to her daughter or the specifics of that night."

NC's right. A good liar needs a good memory.

"On that issue, Patsy can tell you exact details about her stint as Miss West Virginia, where she went, who she talked to, and about what...she can provide exact details about her cancer treatments, who she met, where she stayed, what gifts she gave to others...Patsy can tell people exactly what ornament came from where and was on which of the eight Christmas trees in the 1995 Boulder Parade of Homes Tour...but she can't tell you what JonBenet ate or if she had a bath the last day she was alive. That's selective memory loss, and she only does it when it's convenient for her to be unsure about details about her daughter's murder. Patsy is a liar, and not a very good one."

Good liars need good memories.

"That being said, JBR obviously had ongoing issues with all this and the repeated doc visits centering on these problems sure would have sent me to a specialist. It's likely, I think, that the doc was looking the other way, much to Patsy's relief. Someone was abusing that girl, somehow. Also, the way she was dressed up for pageants to appear to be a sexualized mini-adult MUST have had a psychological effect on her - the combination of that and sexual abuse = the regression in toilet habits?"

A lot of people think that, eve.

 

[JBean]

I agree JBean, my daughter had a UTI at about 3 and the culprit was two-fold, incomplete wiping and a bubble bath product that was in her Christmas stocking. We promptly stopped all bubble baths and I supervised her hygiene more closely until she got the hang of it. No big.

That being said, JBR obviously had ongoing issues with all this and the repeated doc visits centering on these problems sure would have sent me to a specialist. It's likely, I think, that the doc was looking the other way, much to Patsy's relief. Someone was abusing that girl, somehow. Also, the way she was dressed up for pageants to appear to be a sexualized mini-adult MUST have had a psychological effect on her - the combination of that and sexual abuse = the regression in toilet habits?


Eve

Hi Eve:I am not minimizing the fact that abuse often presents as regression in toilet habits. I don't disagree.
My only point is that there are alternatives and they are reasonable.

 

[BBB167893]

"My only point is that there are alternatives and they are reasonable."

They WOULD be reasonable if it were just UTIs, but when the totality is considered, it becomes something else entirely.

 

[Jolynna]

My only point is that there are alternatives and they are reasonable.

They would be IF there were not other psysical symptoms pointing toward abuse.

 

[BBB167893]

I just said that!

 

[Jolynna]

Speaking of memory loss, I just read that Anna Nicole Smith's lawyer is saying that the traumatic loss of her son has given her memory loss so that she cannot recall the events of his death:

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/09/14/D8K4K34O2.html

Melinda Duckett had a memory loss of where she was earlier on the day her son was supposedly taken from his bed, also.

The polygraph administrator in Duckett's area said that other than Melinda, he had NEVER had a parent refuse to take a polygraph. (He was interviewed on Catherine Crier)

Just sayin....

 

[Toltec]

Patsy had selective memory loss.

She remembers that LHP was in dire straits....needed money.

She remembers that Priscilla White put out a "special plate" of cracked crab for JonBenet.

She has total recall for the people she placed under the bus.

I was a pediatric nurse and children as young as 2 months get UTI's. Infants usually get UTI's due to poor cleaning after a bowel movement by parents. Toddlers and children get them from either poor wiping or bubble baths. It does occur folks.

What the detectives failed to do with Patsy was question her about why she failed to wake JonBenet up at midnight as she normally would to take her to the potty. I would have pounded Patsy with that subject.

 

[angelwngs]

Patsy had selective memory loss.

She remembers that LHP was in dire straits....needed money.

She remembers that Priscilla White put out a "special plate" of cracked crab for JonBenet.

She has total recall for the people she placed under the bus.

I was a pediatric nurse and children as young as 2 months get UTI's. Infants usually get UTI's due to poor cleaning after a bowel movement by parents. Toddlers and children get them from either poor wiping or bubble baths. It does occur folks.

What the detectives failed to do with Patsy was question her about why she failed to wake JonBenet up at midnight as she normally would to take her to the potty. I would have pounded Patsy with that subject.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toltec,
Thank you, thank you, thank you! :clap:

This was exactly my point in starting this thread! LE didn't question PR about changing JBR into 'night clothes' without putting on pull-ups nor did they intensely question PR about why she didn't wake JBR up at the 'usual time' to go to the potty. Yet, JonBenet was changed from her white top and velvet pants which she wore to the White's party! Adding pull-ups or taking her to the potty was the usual nighttime ritual and NEITHER were done according to PR. This should have been a HUGE RED FLAG that there was a big old green 'fly in this ointment' and the investigators were IDIOTS for letting it slide!

PR changed JBR into long, tight bottoms which would have been very difficult to have put on a child who was asleep. IF she went to the trouble of putting those on a "zonked out" JBR, why in Heaven's Name would she not have tried to have gotten her to "potty" first or, at the very least, why wouldn't she have put on pull-ups as she changed her for bed!?!

PR saying she was "zonked out" was said for one reason and one reason only: PR hoped that saying she was "zonked out" would "explain" why none of the "usual bedtime habits" took place! If it weren't for the pineapple it would have totally worked too! After all, even with the pineapple, this line of questioning STILL NEVER HAPPENED! :banghead:

 

[luthersmama]

The autopsy report said that her bladder was contracted and empty. She peed sometime that night. If there wasn't a puddle somewhere or a bunch of dirty bedding, she must have gone to the toilet. And not long before she died.

I gather there was no urine on the basement floor or her nightclothes?

 

[Jolynna]

I thought when the body was found that while the underwear JB wore was bloodstained, they had no urine on them. But, that the leggings were wet and smelled of urine.

I may be wrong, but that was my interpretation.

 

[southcitymom]

You're right--it really isn't so unusual. I've worked in pediatric medical offices, and a 5 year old in pull-ups is not such an unusual occurrence as some would think.

For that matter, the daytime accidents also happen with children of that age more frequently than one would think. It is not common for a pediatric urologist to see patients for this reason.

I wonder why JBR never saw a pediatric urologist?

 

[rashomon]

Oh good gravy.
UTI's happen in little girls. JBR may have been one of those children that delays going to the bathroom. I had one like that. He just didn;t want to take time out of his day to go potty.Too many better things to do. This is frquently the cause of wetting and UTI's in little girls.While it may not be "common" it certainly is out there and probably affects many little girls. I was prone to UTI's when I was young for no apparent reason.

Many young girls get UTI's from wiping back to front instead of front to back and get bacteria in the urethra. I don't think it as common in very young girls, but it is as girls get older, has zero to do with sex...zero.

okay that was off the top of my head, here is the first link I came to to support:
http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/utichildren/index.htm#prevent

It is true that urinay tract infections happen in little girls due to a wrong wiping technique.

But it is important to note that UTIs are not the same as vaginitis. JB had vaginitis too. Which is why rabid Ramsey supporters often try to lump it together, alleging that vaginitis is common in little girls. But vaginitis is not common in little girls. It is not normal for a little girl to have an inflamed vagina, because a six-year-old's vagina (as opposed to the urethra) is a very protected area.

 

[JBean]

It is true that urinay tract infections happen in little girls due to a wrong wiping technique.

But it is important to note that UTIs are not the same as vaginitis. JB had vaginitis too. Which is why rabid Ramsey supporters often try to lump it together, alleging that vaginitis is common in little girls. But vaginitis is not common in little girls. It is not normal for a little girl to have an inflamed vagina, because a six-year-old's vagina (as opposed to the urethra) is a very protected area.

HI rashomon. I was responding to the post that said UTI's are exclusively from having sex.
You are right in that they are two completely differnt ailments.However, it is also very important to note that vaginitis is a catch all that refers to any inflammation or infection of the vagina. It would be helpful to know specifically what kind of vaginitis she suffered from, how often and how it was treated. there are certain kinds of vagintis that can only be from sexual contact, if I am not mistaken.
But in general:


ETA:http://www.drhull.com/EncyMaster/V/vaginitis.html
vaginitis, vaginosis

Vaginitis in little girls is a very common condition; usually an infection (vaginosis), sometimes an irritation (vaginitis). It usually starts to be a problem when the little girl starts going to the potty by herself and wiping from back to front or back and forth - in any case, not "front to back and drop the paper" as she should. Symptoms are itching, burning with urination (mimicing bladder infection), and perhaps a yellow or green vaginal discharge (which mother often thinks erroneously to be a yeast infection). Poor hygeine is the cause; good hygeine is often curative.