The Noise Level in the Ramsey Home...

[BBB167893]

You're kidding! Are you sure? The mark didn't look big to me at all, about the size of a cigarette burn, so of course I couldn't see any crescent or anything else. If I come across the pic again I'll use one of my lighted magnifying glasses.

I was reading a thread about the marks, maybe a different thread from this one, got to pg 7 and had to sign off last night. There it was being theorized that PR's fancy diamond cluster rings may have made the marks, and the design wasn't a crescent but more like a horror cartoon face. Someone said dried blood probably caused the rust color. Now I'm just trying to get caught up with today's notifications, don't know if I'll get back there to read the rest of the pages. I did google buttons with crescents, didn't open the Ebay results where you can buy all sorts of buttons, was wondering if JR's Navy uniform could have been used to scrape JonBenet, to look like his signature, or maybe an antique letter sealer stamp or cigarette lighter. I don't have one of those to examine unless in my car. Know anything about those? Each one is probably somewhat different. Navy regulation uniforms have four heavy buttons I forget where, chest probably, and I think two smaller ones on sleeves. Couldn't find any more detail about that.

Cyril Wecht said it was a bruise, not a burn, and that it looked like it had been left by someone pressing their fingernails into it. It was about the size of a quarter.

 

[Eagle1]

I think it was Dr. Spitz(?) said there was a crescent shaped indentation in each of these marks.

A crescent means Islam, according to one of my searches for uniform buttons and such. Couldn't find if there are crescents on the HEAVY four buttons of a Navy uniform.

SD, I'll bet you know how a cigarette lighter looks. Are they all the same? Is there any crescent on one of those? Could it have been off but still hot, and someone used it to torture that poor child?

A crescent shape in the quarter-size mark under her arm too? As well as in the smaller ones? Could it have been a hot uniform button, if not a hot cigarette lighter?

 

[tumble]

Navy uniform button

Yes, first I was thinking boat shape and then 'anchor shape'.
Could very well be a big button with an anchor on it.
I don't think it need to be hot if she was lying on it.

 

[Eagle1]

Hey, yes, I'd forgotten there might be an anchor on a US Navy uniform, and the bottom part of it is shaped like a crescent, right?

Also found in a google search that a crescent means Islam.

What about the cigarette lighter, SD? Anyone?

 

[tumble]

and the bottom part of it is shaped like a crescent, right?

Indeed. And I think such a button could be found on any marine look-a-like costume. Like a 'wannabe captain' jacket.

 

[Eagle1]

Did we remember our manners to properly welcome you, Tumble? You're coming up with some very good ideas,imo, together w/ SD and everyone. I'm up in the middle of the night, having just thought of this, fwiw.

Someone said in a thread about the marks, dried blood could make them rust colored. Probably true. And what if the object(s) being used to cause the different-sized abrasions were also rusty, to give them a rougher surface?

Yes, any kind of uniform, wannabe or whatever. I don't think US Navy buttons would ever rust, correct, guys? What about a rusty old cigarette lighter? I forgot to look at the one in my car yesterday, expect the ones in auto's are probably different?

 

[tumble]

Thanks again for the welcome Eagle1 but infact you welcomed me once before.
To much kindness is never wrong

I think the 'rust-colored' marks are a proper color description of a bruises. This color would mean the bruise were somewhat recent but not really old.
Looking at the pics from JBR neck we don't see any crust on that mark indicating that this never bled.
We have seen pictures of JBR in Christmas morning where she didn't have any mark on her cheek. So we can conclude that the mark occured somewhere between noon 25 and her death.
Rust-colored would fit this timeline.
Also the same color for the marks indicates that they occured at the same time.

 

[LinasK]

What if someone was wearing an old civil war uniform or had a finger ring with a crescent on it that could be used as a seal?

Letters aren't sealed that way in wax any more, but if some kind of game-playing people were involved, might they still have an antique one?

Sealing wax and seals aren't antique. I still have ones I used in the 60's and 70's. They could be found at stationery stores.

 

[rashomon]

Cyril Wecht said it was a bruise, not a burn, and that it looked like it had been left by someone pressing their fingernails into it. It was about the size of a quarter.

I have no idea how big those 'crescent' marks were, but couldn't they have come from someone who had dug their fingernails into JB's skin?

I believe that the coroner would have noted if the rust color which other posters mentioned came form dried blood, and also have been able to identify a cigarette burn. I suppose cigarette burns have fairly specific characteristics.

 

[BBB167893]

"SD, I'll bet you know how a cigarette lighter looks. Are they all the same? Is there any crescent on one of those? Could it have been off but still hot, and someone used it to torture that poor child?"

Couldn't tell you. I don't smoke. But like the autopsy said, they were abrasions, not burns.

Kane: The thing about the stun gun that everybody keeps coming back to. There was one person who was qualified who actually looked at that little girl’s body on the autopsy table and that was Dr. Meyer, who’s a forensic pathologist. He looked at those very marks and said that they were abrasions. It is a quantum leap-you can take a stun gun and put it up against somebody’s body...and it’s going to leave a burn. It does leave an abrasion. So all these other opinions that have come out that said that this was a stun gun, there is absolutely no way they would ever get into evidence because there is no evidence that these were burns.

Still, I was watching Law & Order and this one killer for the mob had a money clip with an art-deco crescent on it. He'd heat it with a lighter and mark his victims with it like a branding iron.

 

[Eagle1]

...........
Still, I was watching Law & Order and this one killer for the mob had a money clip with an art-deco crescent on it. He'd heat it with a lighter and mark his victims with it like a branding iron.

....

No kidding! I mentioned the possibility of somebody making something hot. And/or it being rusty and therefore rough enough to cause an abrasion. Yes, you would think investigaters would have done some scientific testing to see exactly what the rust color was.

So here's another idea. Ta da.....A pool cue. Isn't that what they call the stick they hit the balls with? Didn't someone years ago mention green fibers that apparently came from the pool table in the basement?

Anyone ever examined the end of one of those sticks? Is there metal on them, that could be rusty from years in the basement? They were pretending she was a ball? Or branding her as one? That's really wacko, I know.

Tumble, you sure it was me who already welcomed you? Because obviously I don't remember, but also obviously you could be right. lol

I just wanted to sort of mark the Law & Order idea, we have so many threads that discuss the marks, and may need some cross references of some kind.

 

[IrishMist]

Thanks again for the welcome Eagle1 but infact you welcomed me once before.
To much kindness is never wrong

I think the 'rust-colored' marks are a proper color description of a bruises. This color would mean the bruise were somewhat recent but not really old.
Looking at the pics from JBR neck we don't see any crust on that mark indicating that this never bled.
We have seen pictures of JBR in Christmas morning where she didn't have any mark on her cheek. So we can conclude that the mark occured somewhere between noon 25 and her death.
Rust-colored would fit this timeline.
Also the same color for the marks indicates that they occured at the same time.

That's what I'm thinking, too. Had she lived, those marks could have gone on to turn black and blue.

 

[BBB167893]

"Isn't that what they call the stick they hit the balls with?"

Yeah, but I think the great majority have wooden ends.

Irishmist could be right.

 

[Bev]

this is interesting, but I wanted to comment on the noise level thing -

1998 interview -
Patsy Ramsey "...Her door was ajar, 3, 4 inches, you know..."
Tom Haney "...okay, is that the way you left it the night before?"
PR "...but I wanted to leave it so if she needed me or called out or something
I could hear her..."
TH "So that was the normal thing?"
PR "that was the normal thing to do."

I thought Ole Smit said nothing could be heard upstairs - and then JR said that he was in his bathroom and heard PR scream.

Oh, first PR told French she opened JBR's door, and she wasn't in her room, and PR went downstairs and saw the note.
Then PR said that the door was ajar, and she stopped at the laundry area, fussed around and then went downstairs and came back up and checked JBR's room.

 

[BBB167893]

They just can't keep it straight, can they?