State v Bradley Cooper 03/31/11

[gracielee]

But there's so many reasons the garage could have been open. When I lived in NC, I lived in a subdivision just like Lochmere. Nice homes, neighbor parties, garage doors closed (you'd actually get a ticket from the HOA if you left it open). But there are so many legitimate reasons to have a garage door open (it could have been open only a couple of minutes - coincidentally when she walked by). Exiting the house thru the garage, trying to find something in the garage and wanting some fresh air or addtl daylight to find it, cleaning it, etc. If the garage was open for hours, I'd find it unusual. But we're only hearing about a minute while she walked by.

I get the "linking of coincidences" in a circumstantial case, but I think this is a stretch. If she saw BC stuffing something in the trunk, that would be another story.

I didn't get the impression it was that light outside yet. Didn't this witness state that she noticed the garage door being open because it looked like a big dark hole where the light colored door 'should have' been? I thought that was the way I heard her. I came in late cause my newsfeed didn't auto pop back on.

 

[Cheyenne130]

Was she asked if she was wearing long sleeves or short sleeves when walking her dog? I did read another Canadian post last night comparing the weather here to the weather in Medicine Hat, saying that summers there can be/are very hot too, like here, so Brad wouldn't necessarily 'be cold' here if the temp was 70 degrees, because the temps there in summer were often in the 90 to 100 degree range as well.

They did not ask that. She indicated that she was walking that early because she knew it would be hot later in the day.

 

[gracielee]

Yes and no. Her walk time that she gave was 6:00-6:45. According to the timeline given, Nancy would not have left the house until after that time.

Surprised she didn't see Brad's car coming and going either time from is HT trips.

 

[carolinalady]

I didn't get the impression it was that light outside yet. Didn't this witness state that she noticed the garage door being open because it looked like a big dark hole where the light colored door 'should have' been? I thought that was the way I heard her. I came in late cause my newsfeed didn't auto pop back on.

Sunrise would've been between 6:00 and 6:10AM. She said she noticed it on her way back to her house at approximately 6:45.

 

[BrownRice]

Surprised she didn't see Brad's car coming and going either time from is HT trips.

That is an excellent point. Prosecution should have mapped her walking route to see if she would have had to pass him.

 

[borndem]

To me it means that perhaps he didn't get into the car in the driveway like he normally would. It looks like he may have had the car in the garage. I think this may be important!!

You can bet that we'll hear about this little detail again.

 

[BrownRice]

Sunrise would've been between 6:00 and 6:10AM. She said she noticed it on her way back to her house at approximately 6:45.

Is it light a that time? I think so in the summer?

 

[Jess]

Would this not indicate that the garage opener light was off then ?? Does it go off after being open a certain length of time ?

 

[ncsu95]

Just checking in. Do we have smoking gun yet?

Yes. They had a bad marriage.

 

[RaleighNC]

For those that don't wnt to read the rather dry article on spousal murder - here's a key feature / definition.

catathymic crisis
an isolated, nonrepetitive act of violence that develops as a result of intolerable tension.

And this I found esp chilling:
"Catathymia" was first used by a German psychologist in 1912 in the context of paranoia. The term is derived from the Greek kata and thymos, which refers to emotions. Accordingly, an emotionally charged idea temporarily overwhelms a person and pushes him or her off balance. Emotion trumps logic.

Dr. Frederick Wertham
Dr. Frederick Wertham
Dr. Frederick Wertham, who applied the term in criminal psychiatry, explained catathymic behavior as occurring when a person acquires an idea that he believes he must carry through to a violent act. The person develops a plan and feels a "tremendous urge" to put that plan into action, imbuing the violence with symbolic meaning. His thinking acquires a delusional quality, marked by rigidity and poor logical coherence.

The eight stages of catathymic crisis play out in the following way, although not everyone gets through to the last one:

1. Following a traumatic experience, an unsolvable internal state leads to emotional tension.
2. The person projects blame for this tension onto an external source.
3. His thinking becomes more egocentric and self-protective.
4. Violence is perceived as the only way out, so he crystallizes a plan.
5. To safeguard the personality, the extreme emotional tension culminates in the violent crisis—either acted out or attempted.
6. The tension is relieved.
7. Superficial normality occurs.
8. Inner equilibrium is recovered, with the development of insight.

Sex Murder and Sex Aggression
Sex Murder and Sex Aggression
Revitch and Schlesinger mention in Sex Murder and Sex Aggression that after a catathymic homicidal event, the killer's affect is generally flat and he may display a remote attitude when discussing the incident later. These authors also note that besides a triggering situation, a chronic catathymic crisis may arise from a prolonged and conflict-ridden relationship that creates an enormous amount of tension. In either case, it taps a deeper source of emotional agitation in the person than a mere situational reaction. Something has built and it's not going to be easily contained.

Violent Attachments
Violent Attachments
Forensic psychologist J. Reid Meloy, author of Violent Attachments, also addresses catathymia, which he calls a build-up of anger and frustration that threatens to undermine someone's fragile sense of self. Fearing the loss of control that life often brings, the person may construct layers of stabilizing delusions. But when realty intrudes, the pressure of having to deal with it threatens to overwhelm him. The sudden flow of desperation and rage crashes through his meager defenses, and he acts out in violence. Once it's done, he often feels better.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/marc_lepine/7.html

 

[NCEast]

The live feed is back on.

 

[lib's mom]

I am finding this article - research very interesting.

There does seem to be a personality type that kills their spouse without prior history (recorded) of domestic violence. Passive-aggressive personalities and dependent personalities often kill at the period of estrangement / abandonment when they do not consider divorce to be an option and these killers have little remorse and seem to have a period of feigned normalcy after the murder.

there's lots more in there - but this paints a picture for me that it's not as uncommon as I've thought that murders usually happen after prior histories of violence and that it's an act of a crazy person - in fact - it can look quite the opposite quite a bit of the time.

like I said - interesting.............. if you read, pay close attention to the catathymic crisis....

Was a personality assessment part of the custody hearing? I'd love to know where BC scored on some of the areas called up for the catathymic crisis killers.

I know Brad did see a doctor hired by his attorney. Dr. Somebody in Charlotte. He also saw one (Hilke?) from Durham hired by the Rentz's. He talks a little about it in the custody depos. I think there's also affidavits up in the legal docs. thread.

 

[ncsu95]

To me it means that perhaps he didn't get into the car in the driveway like he normally would. It looks like he may have had the car in the garage. I think this may be important!!

The defense said during opening statements that he went through the garage to leave on the 2nd trip to HT to take the trash out. That is why was wearing different shoes. So it really doesn't mean anything.

 

[carolinalady]

Is it light a that time? I think so in the summer?

Yes it is light.

 

[ncsu95]

But she couldn't recall how many cars were in the driveway, so that (to me) negates anything else.

At 6:45 there would only have been 1 since he was at HT. And he said he went through the garage when leaving for the 2nd trip (defense opening statements). So it really doesn't mean anything for either side.

 

[NCEast]

For those that don't wnt to read the rather dry article on spousal murder - here's a key feature / definition.

catathymic crisis
an isolated, nonrepetitive act of violence that develops as a result of intolerable tension.

And this I found esp chilling:
"Catathymia" was first used by a German psychologist in 1912 in the context of paranoia. The term is derived from the Greek kata and thymos, which refers to emotions. Accordingly, an emotionally charged idea temporarily overwhelms a person and pushes him or her off balance. Emotion trumps logic.

Dr. Frederick Wertham
Dr. Frederick Wertham
Dr. Frederick Wertham, who applied the term in criminal psychiatry, explained catathymic behavior as occurring when a person acquires an idea that he believes he must carry through to a violent act. The person develops a plan and feels a "tremendous urge" to put that plan into action, imbuing the violence with symbolic meaning. His thinking acquires a delusional quality, marked by rigidity and poor logical coherence.

The eight stages of catathymic crisis play out in the following way, although not everyone gets through to the last one:

1. Following a traumatic experience, an unsolvable internal state leads to emotional tension.
2. The person projects blame for this tension onto an external source.
3. His thinking becomes more egocentric and self-protective.
4. Violence is perceived as the only way out, so he crystallizes a plan.
5. To safeguard the personality, the extreme emotional tension culminates in the violent crisis—either acted out or attempted.
6. The tension is relieved.
7. Superficial normality occurs.
8. Inner equilibrium is recovered, with the development of insight.

Sex Murder and Sex Aggression
Sex Murder and Sex Aggression
Revitch and Schlesinger mention in Sex Murder and Sex Aggression that after a catathymic homicidal event, the killer's affect is generally flat and he may display a remote attitude when discussing the incident later. These authors also note that besides a triggering situation, a chronic catathymic crisis may arise from a prolonged and conflict-ridden relationship that creates an enormous amount of tension. In either case, it taps a deeper source of emotional agitation in the person than a mere situational reaction. Something has built and it's not going to be easily contained.

Violent Attachments
Violent Attachments
Forensic psychologist J. Reid Meloy, author of Violent Attachments, also addresses catathymia, which he calls a build-up of anger and frustration that threatens to undermine someone's fragile sense of self. Fearing the loss of control that life often brings, the person may construct layers of stabilizing delusions. But when realty intrudes, the pressure of having to deal with it threatens to overwhelm him. The sudden flow of desperation and rage crashes through his meager defenses, and he acts out in violence. Once it's done, he often feels better.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/marc_lepine/7.html

Thank you for all of this info. I will delve deeper after the end of court today. I appreciate your getting this.

 

[gracielee]

The defense said during opening statements that he went through the garage to leave on the 2nd trip to HT to take the trash out. That is why was wearing different shoes. So it really doesn't mean anything.

I thought the garage has a service door right beside the big door? And that the trash cans were next to the service door?

 

[LyndyLoo]

Missed this witness oming to the stand..do we know who she is?? Neighbour or friend?? TYIA..Sorry got sideswiped by puter issues!!

 

[gracielee]

Missed this witness oming to the stand..do we know who she is?? Neighbour or friend?? TYIA..Sorry got sideswiped by puter issues!!

Different street in Lochmere I think, neighbor and friend though.

 

[carolinalady]

Jennifer Federoff, Nancy's "nighttime friend" (that's what Nancy called her). Lives in Lochmere, too.