State vs Jason Lynn Young: weekend discussion 11-18 Feb 2012

[Skittles]

Can you find the granny doll shown? I tried for quite a while and could not.

See the second photo in this post of otto's:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7614668&postcount=127

 

[pjcitizen]

See the second photo in this post of otto's:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7614668&postcount=127

Thanks! I am still catching up with the rest of the weekend post where I left off. It was driving me crazy that we couldn't find it.

 

[Just the Fax]

I don't see a glove.

I do.....

 

[Madeleine74]

 

[Just the Fax]

Silly me. I thought you were referring to the dolls otto had posted with the bangles on its wrist! Yes, those are clearly fingers. I think there is a ring on the third finger, which makes me think he is closing the door by reaching back with his left hand, but that would be an awkward pose to close a door I think.

That door has an automatic pneumatic closer.
Looks like someone pausing while looking out into the hall?

 

[Grammy Jean]

Just that image is so chilling!

 

[dmaxphil]

Regarding cell phone pinging.. This varies from provider. In 2006 though, it is most likely that the only records obtainable by LE are transmissions that were initiated by an incoming or outgoing call or text.

Based on testimony, I'm pretty confident that LE went off incoming/outgoing calls and texts to "assume" the phone must have been turned off.

Towers do ping cell phones to assist with call/text routing, but that information was usually not stored past 24 hours. I found this call retention chart but it does not show pinging.

http://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/freespeech/retention_periods_of_major_cellular_service_providers.pdf

 

[cityslick]

If she was drugged, I wonder when she re woke to get under the covers in the master bedroom. Either way, it sounds like a extremely traumatic experience.

 

[Just the Fax]

I think there is a lot of confusion about the part of the 911 where most of us hear "daddy did it" . Some posted they heard "daddy...", which also occured in the 2 minute range of the tape. I would suggest disregarding everything CY says until you get to the 5:01 time of the recording (turn up speakers).

If you still don't hear it, that's ok.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/audio/1119462/

 

[Madeleine74]

Here are the 3 most human figures that were available from the bucket of figures CY had next to her as she played with the dollhouse.

On the far left is the figure that CY called "the mommy doll." It has dark hair, a ponytail with a ribbon, and is carrying a purse.
In the middle is the figure that was beating the "mommy doll."
On the far right is a figure the daycare teacher described, but was not shown in court of a "doctor doll in full scrubs."

 

[NCEast]

I think there is a lot of confusion about the part of the 911 where most of us hear "daddy did it" . Some posted they heard "daddy...", which also occured in the 2 minute range of the tape. I would suggest disregarding everything CY says until you get to the 5:01 time of the recording (turn up speakers).

If you still don't hear it, that's ok.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/audio/1119462/

Well, I clearly hear it twice. Maybe it's because I know where to listen and have heard it many times already. But there is no doubt, I can hear CY say at 2 separate times 'Daddy did it'.

 

[ohiogirl]

I think there is a lot of confusion about the part of the 911 where most of us hear "daddy did it" . Some posted they heard "daddy...", which also occured in the 2 minute range of the tape. I would suggest disregarding everything CY says until you get to the 5:01 time of the recording (turn up speakers).

If you still don't hear it, that's ok.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/audio/1119462/

Turned the speakers way up and I did finally hear her say daddy did it.
thanks

 

[Just the Fax]

JTF mentioned they might not capture any pings if he didn't move and didn't use it, or of course if it was turned off. I think if the DA did not ask about this during the cell phone expert testimony, and neither did the defense, it must be the case there is nothing there to be known.

It would have been huge evidence if Cingular had recorded the pings and it showed the phone continued to ping all night from Hillsville or showed the phone was turned off at midnight.

It seems if there was data, it would have been a huge issue at trial.

 

[citygirl]

Interesting point. Could it then open the door to CY's chattering about daddy while in the fire truck with MF?

IMO, if one could possibly think that using that Elton John grandma figure instead of a doctor is an indication by CY that the attacker was a female, then it should be impossible to ignore that she clearly said the word "Daddy" (followed by argument over what she said next) after being asked what happened to mommy.

IMO, the defense can get away with saying grandma doll, but if they go too far with the day care worker talking about other dolls alluding to the grandma doll as being some kind of identifier of the attacker (rather than just CY's having been at the scene) they open the door for the DA to rebut with everything they've got, possibly including recalling MF to discuss more particularly what she heard from CY during the call and playing it again, maybe even playing parts that were deleted.

If I understand the DA has some limits on using CY's statements (and actions) as identifying the attacker (not sure if that's why 911 call has been in some ways limited), and the defense will have to decide if it is worth opening that door from what they have to gain by arguing that the grandma Elton was chosen so as not to represent her dad, who could only have been represented by doctor otherwise.

They will call the doll a female figure, a grandma, etc., and for good reason for their purposes, but getting into comparing other dolls equals identity evidence. The judge might not let them do it either, but I think he'd give them greater leeway than the DA on this, but once the door is open the DA can walk through too.

 

[Madeleine74]

Interesting point. Could it then open the door to CY's chattering about daddy while in the fire truck with MF?

The info about CY mentioning 'daddy' while in the fire truck has already been testified to by MF during re-direct. The defense opened the door to that.

What hasn't been discussed are the utterances made by CY during the 911 call, which many of us can hear twice on the original recording.

 

[gracielee]

The fluke was the multiple calls from JLY and even a call from his mother for her to go retrieve the printout. That's just deductive logic. I don't think she would be telling a 911 operator "I came over here to get an eBay printout.". It was more like OMG, I don't normally come here but thank God I did. She was unaware JLY had orchestrated the whole thing...she, unknowingly, was part of his sick script.

IMO, the *fluke* was that Meredith dropped everything and went to the house in early afternoon, rather than to continue mowing her lawn as she had planned. Even though Michelle would be at work till at least 5:00, because now jason's mommy had begun calling her too! It wasn't like she could just pop nextdoor to pick up that piece of paper. She had to drive, what did she say, 15 to 20 minutes. She probably planned to do it *after* she took care of her yard, but what with Pat calling her too now, besides jason, she figured, 'heck, I better go get it done and get that young clan off my back!' JMO :maddening:

 

[citygirl]

The info about CY mentioning 'daddy' while in the fire truck has already been testified to by MF during re-direct. The defense opened the door to that.

What hasn't been discussed are the utterances made by CY during the 911 call, which many of us can hear twice on the original recording.

I understand that. My point is she was able to testify ABOUT CY talking about daddy but NOT what she actually said.

 

[Just the Fax]

Regarding cell phone pinging.. This varies from provider. In 2006 though, it is most likely that the only records obtainable by LE are transmissions that were initiated by an incoming or outgoing call or text.

Based on testimony, I'm pretty confident that LE went off incoming/outgoing calls and texts to "assume" the phone must have been turned off.

Towers do ping cell phones to assist with call/text routing, but that information was usually not stored past 24 hours. I found this call retention chart but it does not show pinging.

http://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/freespeech/retention_periods_of_major_cellular_service_providers.pdf

Interesting info dmaxphil !
Too bad he did not use Verizon, as LE could have seen his text message detail (retained 3-5 days). Looks like Cingular had the least amount of retention, so probably did not even record and log pings for even 24 hours.

 

[otto]

A mix of the two drugs in the dropper as well as her (CY's) DNA (which implies her mouth was on said dropper), and a print on a bottle that have come from anywhere. Heck when he was shacking up with Carol Ann she could have had a headache and taken Tylenol. The fact that the dropper itself had NO prints means the person who administered the med wore gloves. I doubt if the person wearing gloves to give it would have been stupid enough to put their prints on the bottle. They were being careful...

So that means Jason was wearing gloves when he hit Michelle with his bare hands, removed his gloves during the attack to place his hand on the door moulding, put his gloves back on to touch the medicine?

 

[Madeleine74]

I understand that. My point is she was able to testify ABOUT CY talking about daddy but NOT what she actually said.

I suppose if the door is opened by the defense, and the PT recognizes it, they could then make a good argument for bringing in more about what CY actually said and try to elicit further detailed testimony about that.