State vs Jason Lynn Young: weekend discussion 11-25 Feb 2012

[heidisams]

The attorneys should include these instructions in their closing argument. That's the crash course before the jury instructions are actually read out loud by the judge.

If you place more restrictions on the system, and require intelligence, and ability to pass a test, it's not sustainable. We already have a hard enough time finding capable jurors to serve anyways.

I agree with you, in theory, that people should be more aware of what the standard of proof is. In some cases, I think the outcome would be different, but I am not sure the outcome would be different in the first trial of this case, and I would catch a lot of fire on this site, if I listed the cases I thought were legally decided correctly, that many of you disagree with.

I see what you're saying. And I don't think it would ever happen, but that doesn't stop me from wishing... And as far as the usefulness of the attorneys crash course of jury instructions in their closing, I think of CM's lesson he gave the P12.... you have to have the who, the when, the why, the how. ****load of bs**** Since when is motive, cod, tod absolutely necessary to convict???? It can and has been done, but his version of the instructions said otherwise.

 

[otto]

Does anyone have a link to Gracie's testimony? I missed it. Thanks in advance.

Part 1: http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/video/10705156/#/vid10705156

Part 2: http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/video/10708995/#/vid10708995

 

[sureLocke]

Just The Fax,
I, as I am sure all of us, appreciate your unending pursuit of facts and posting information which answers many of our questions. You keep the debate on track and offer many supporting facts to backup your input. I constantly look for you posts.

I am trying to find where I had thought Gracie mentioned watching the defendant drive around behind a retail establishment after fueling at the 4brothers store. Do you recall such testimony?

 

[Talina]

But her testimony is locked and she was very specific about what she saw.
Not sure how much she can change that 8 months later. I assume she thought JLY was guilty before the first trial?

Wasn't her testimony hurt with the rebuttal witness the pros called that said he was working that same day?

 

[Madeleine74]

I am trying to find where I had thought Gracie mentioned watching the defendant drive around behind a retail establishment after fueling at the 4brothers store. Do you recall such testimony?

She definitely talked about it during her testimony. They showed enlarged pics of the Four Bros. station and she showed where he drove in around and in the back of that station.

 

[Talina]

A great example of what I've been referring to here as 'mis-statement of the facts, evidence, testimony given at trial, etc. Done over and over on these boards during this case. And when someone points it out to the poster, the fact is simply ignored by said poster/s, and often times later repeated again as the same misstatement of the facts. :maddening:

That is so true and I honestly do not recall that happening on other trials I've followed on this site.

It seems to run rampant on this trial thread though.

IMO

 

[Just the Fax]

Both trials she said he parked on the very far pump island (only vehicle there).
Who would not pump closest to the door, knowing you would be paying cash????

 

[pjcitizen]

In yesterday's thread it was posted that Shelly Schaad said that last night she was with Michelle that "she felt someone was watching them".

I watched the day 3, part 3 video of her testimony (http://www.wral.com/specialreports/m.../#/vid10704274) - at around the 17:30 mark the questions start about when/how she left Michelle's house.


Q: And did Michelle walk you out to your car?

A: Yes, because I felt so uneasy that night I said 'Michelle, do you mind just walking me out?' and she did. She walked me, we left through the front door, and she walked me to my car and I said goodbye and I left.




Did Shelly talk about 'feeling they were being watched' at some other point?

Hi! I saw where that was commented on by a poster here and I remember thinking, "Hmmm... pretty sure it was JASON that felt like they were being watched, not SS."

But of course I could have missed the lines where she said she also felt like they were being watched, just that she asked MY if she ever got scared being there alone.

I was too lazy to go back and re-listen, but I guess I will anyway.

I sure hate having to chase down everything I hear as being mis-stated but I want to be sure I am being as accurate as possible, even if others don't care if they are. I will let you know if I find SS said she felt they were being watched.

 

[pjcitizen]

Here is something that has been bothering me....

During the voicemail to MF, JLY states something that I find to be chilling given the circumstances. I also find the voicemail hard to understand. Does anyone know where I can find a transcript of the voicemail? I get a lot of hits for the 911 call transcript but not the voicemail transcript. TIA!

 

[gracielee]

Just The Fax,
I, as I am sure all of us, appreciate your unending pursuit of facts and posting information which answers many of our questions. You keep the debate on track and offer many supporting facts to backup your input. I constantly look for you posts.

I am trying to find where I had thought Gracie mentioned watching the defendant drive around behind a retail establishment after fueling at the 4brothers store. Do you recall such testimony?

Yes, Gracie described the route the white SUV took upon leaving her gas pumps. She also described the route it took getting back on the highway. IIRC, Gracie stated the white SUV went around behind the McDonalds that is attached to the same building her CV shares.

 

[gracielee]

Both trials she said he parked on the very far pump island (only vehicle there).
Who would not pump closest to the door, knowing you would be paying cash????

She also correctly stated the position of the gas tank on JLY's car. She said he pulled up 'passenger side of the car closest to the gas pump.' That being the correct side of the Young vehicle to fill the tank.

 

[Wolfpack]

Yes, Gracie described the route the white SUV took upon leaving her gas pumps. She also described the route it took getting back on the highway. IIRC, Gracie stated the white SUV went around behind the McDonalds that is attached to the same building her CV shares.

Do you know if these dumpsters were searched when Gracie was first found? Or was it too late by the time the detectives knew?

 

[borndem]

Husbands can be funny creatures! Mine wears the SAME style of shoe, and has for 15 years. He will go out and by four or five when they are running a sale, and put them in the closet to store them. Then, when the current pair wears out, he's already got the replacement. Occasionally, they'll change the color of that tennis shoe, and it throws him off! But he's been wearing the same model of shoe as long as I've known him.

My DH is the same with his Sperry Billfishers. He has 3 pairs in various states of wear: a wear-to-work pair; a wear around the house, light yardwork pair; and a go-to-hell pair that he wears when he's loading mulch or mowing the grass.

Different shoes for different who's, I guess!!

 

[otto]

That is so true and I honestly do not recall that happening on other trials I've followed on this site.

It seems to run rampant on this trial thread though.

IMO

This case has gone on for 6 years. In the three years following the murder, a lot of information was available through the media, but there was also a lot of information posted by insiders. We also have a first trial, where half the evidence was not presented. I think what we're seeing is sometimes a clash between insider rumor, media information, first trial testimony and now second trial testimony. It's difficult to keep it all straight. An example of information that changed dramatically relates to the child. First she was clean, then she had blood on her toes, then she had blood on her pyjamas and then there were bloody prints on the carpet between the bathroom and the master bedroom. That was a significant change, but not everyone is up to date with the changes. Another example is the insurance amount ... that also changed.

I'm wondering if the prosecution thought they had a slam dunk case in the first trial and so they didn't bother presenting all the evidence ... or if they wanted the defense to tip their hand so they could properly prosecute him.

 

[gracielee]

Do you know if these dumpsters were searched when Gracie was first found? Or was it too late by the time the detectives knew?

I don't know if the dumpsters were checked or not. I would *imagine* they might have been emptied simply because this occured on a Thursday night/Friday morning. And Gracie wasn't located until Sunday night IIRC. I would assume the dumpsters behind a McDonalds would be emptied prior to a busy week-end. But that's just my common sense assumption. FWIW.

 

[pjcitizen]

In yesterday's thread it was posted that Shelly Schaad said that last night she was with Michelle that "she felt someone was watching them".

I watched the day 3, part 3 video of her testimony (http://www.wral.com/specialreports/m.../#/vid10704274) - at around the 17:30 mark the questions start about when/how she left Michelle's house.


Q: And did Michelle walk you out to your car?

A: Yes, because I felt so uneasy that night I said 'Michelle, do you mind just walking me out?' and she did. She walked me, we left through the front door, and she walked me to my car and I said goodbye and I left.




Did Shelly talk about 'feeling they were being watched' at some other point?

http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/video/10704274/#/vid10704274

OK, Day 3, Part 3 at approx 1:10:20 (The info you posted is actually at the 1:17:30 mark) she says she had an eery feeling that night and asked MY if she ever gets scared alone by herself. MY says JLY has been hearing noises around the house but if someone intends to break in and kill you, that's what they'll do.

That's it for me, if someone has the link & timestamp where SS says she felt like she was being watched, your turn.

 

[Wolfpack]

I don't know if the dumpsters were checked or not. I would *imagine* they might have been emptied simply because this occured on a Thursday night/Friday morning. And Gracie wasn't located until Sunday night IIRC. I would assume the dumpsters behind a McDonalds would be emptied prior to a busy week-end. But that's just my common sense assumption. FWIW.

That makes sense, and should be easy enough to find out. There should be a set dumpster-emptying day definitely. Because even if they searched the dumpster on Sunday, if it had been emptied, it's a nonpoint for the prosecution. But if they hadn't been emptied, it's a possible point for the defense to make.

 

[thumbtack]

This case has gone on for 6 years. In the three years following the murder, a lot of information was available through the media, but there was also a lot of information posted by insiders. We also have a first trial, where half the evidence was not presented. I think what we're seeing is sometimes a clash between insider rumor, media information, first trial testimony and now second trial testimony. It's difficult to keep it all straight. An example of information that changed dramatically relates to the child. First she was clean, then she had blood on her toes, then she had blood on her pyjamas and then there were bloody prints on the carpet between the bathroom and the master bedroom. That was a significant change, but not everyone is up to date with the changes. Another example is the insurance amount ... that also changed.

I'm wondering if the prosecution thought they had a slam dunk case in the first trial and so they didn't bother presenting all the evidence ... or if they wanted the defense to tip their hand so they could properly prosecute him.

Otto, what do you mean by defense tipping their hand to properly prosecute? That would the pros. counted on a hung jury 1st time so they could get another chance?

 

[gracielee]

http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/video/10704274/#/vid10704274

OK, Day 3, Part 3 at approx 1:10:20 (The info you posted is actually at the 1:17:30 mark) she says she had an eery feeling that night and asked MY if she ever gets scared alone by herself. MY says JLY has been hearing noises around the house but if someone intends to break in and kill you, that's what they'll do.

That's it for me, if someone has the link & timestamp where SS says she felt like she was being watched, your turn.

Shelly Schaad's testimony reminds me so much of the witness in the Cooper trial. Sorry, I can't recall her name, but she testified that the first time she met Nancy Cooper was the night before Nancy's murder, and Nancy was talking with her about the terrible state of her marriage, all her problems, etc. And that witness testified to 'looking across the street at the Cooper house and she and her husband were leaving the neighbors house where the party had been that night.' She said to her husband that 'she very much feared for Nancy Cooper', & 'that she felt something awful was going to happen to her.' That too was the night before the murder. I'm a believer in ESP. to a certain extent. I think many of us get 'feelings' we can't explain, but are so strong.

 

[borndem]

I honestly don't know. Without seeing their discovery and knowing who they have available, I think they would need some sort of expert to counter the hushpuppy testimony, if that's possible. I can see calling someone close to the financial issues to discuss that from the defense POV, definitely not Alice Stubbs. I would put more character witnesses on the stand, if he can find them. If necessary or possible, I would put every gas station attendant on the stand who was interviewed by LEO after this, and have them testify they didn't see JY. Someone to strengthen the credibility of Cindy Beaver's testimony would be great.

But, I think if they had these things, they would have presented them in the first trial.

And I think they'll actually put JY up again. I honestly don't think he has anything to lose at this point. But that alone could last two days this time around.

bbm
Thanks for your thoughts, Wolfpack. Some good points. And tuff to bring off, as you said. It's obvious to me that you put a lot of thought into what you post.

All I can say to those of us who are on the way-far "G" side of that fence, is that I hope the PT is also assuming JY will take the stand and that they are already prepared for that cross and re-cross, and that if he does take the stand, it dayam well better take, as W'pack says, two days up there. Or more. I want him reduced down to the very small man that he is....that's the only way I would want to see him naked....