Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[Karinna]

If this was the case, why would the killer move the vehicle over by the dam ? There are too many "what ifs" in Zellner's scenario. She can't have it both ways ... car hidden on Kuss Road - car left by the dam visible to the public. She has affidavits that a vehicle similar to a Rav4 was seen by the dam. But then how does Bobby get SA's blood and move it to the vehicle on 11/3 ?

As i stated earlier it is IMO that Kuss Rd. is of significance as the dogs alerted over that area for TH as well, meaning at some stage she was there in some form.
The RAV could very well have been in that location too.
The RAV got moved from there somewhere and planted on ASY.
I do not believe PM's "god led her to it". She found it on a 40 acre lot of a huge amount of vehicles in about 20 mins. I call BS on that. Why did RH give her a camera?
And if you don't see what KZ has with new evidence it is all out there on the internet with her various filings to the court. She has that evidence and perhaps you need to familiarise yourself with it again, just a suggestion.

 

[proudfootz]

Most posters here that i have seen support their speculation based on fact that is supported with links.
And we can only guess what happened according to that. Some of the stuff in this case can't be proven because that ship sailed long ago when a thorough investigation should of been done and wasn't. The chain of evidence is also very dodgy in this case, because of the way this case was handled. We all know that as fact, because evidence wasn't handled or documented properly etc.

That's the basis of my reasonable doubt regarding the prosecution case - the chain of evidence is made up of all weak links.

 

[Sustained]

As i stated earlier it is IMO that Kuss Rd. is of significance as the dogs alerted over that area for TH as well, meaning at some stage she was there in some form.
The RAV could very well have been in that location too.
The RAV got moved from there somewhere and planted on ASY.
I do not believe PM's "god led her to it". She found it on a 40 acre lot of a huge amount of vehicles in about 20 mins. I call BS on that. Why did RH give her a camera?
And if you don't see what KZ has with new evidence it is all out there on the internet with her various filings to the court. She has that evidence and perhaps you need to familiarise yourself with it again, just a suggestion.

BBM - I suggest that you stop making suggestions. KZ's "evidence" is nothing more than speculation with zero proof to back it up. I am 100% convinced that Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey murdered Teresa Halbach and feel really bad for the Halbach family that KZ is making a spectacle out of their tragedy.

 

[Karinna]

BBM - I suggest that you stop making suggestions. KZ's "evidence" is nothing more than speculation with zero proof to back it up. I am 100% convinced that Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey murdered Teresa Halbach and feel really bad for the Halbach family that KZ is making a spectacle out of their tragedy.

LOL, she has enough proof, and she has more than we know. She is not going to show all her cards just yet, so hang on its going to be a bumpy ride.

 

[Sustained]

LOL, she has enough proof, and she has more than we know. She is not going to show all her cards just yet, so hang on its going to be a bumpy ride.

LOL - she doesn't have any proof that anyone committed the crime other than SA/BD. You can even take a 4-5 year nap and SA/BD will still be in prison where they belong.

 

[Karinna]

LOL - she doesn't have any proof that anyone committed the crime other than SA/BD. You can even take a 4-5 year nap and SA/BD will still be in prison where they belong.

We will see.

 

[proudfootz]

Too may 'what ifs' and 'maybes' in the prosecution case:

What if Steven held a grudge against all women because he was framed by LE?
Maybe Steven snuck into Bobby's bedroom while Bobby slept and looked up on the Dassey computer instead of the privacy of his own home?
What if Steven thought society owed him a free crime?
No, what if Steven wanted to go back to prison?
Maybe Steven 'lured' Teresa instead of conducting legitimate business as he'd always done before?
What if Steven took Teresa to quarry before dumping her remains in his own yard?
What if Steven wiped the RAV4 down?
No, maybe Steven wore gloves?
What if Steven sheds skin cells at least ten times more than anyone else?
Maybe Steven cleverly cleaned all of Teresa's DNA off the key and lanyard but wrecked the plan by contaminating it with his own DNA?
Maybe Steven executed a Dexter-level cleanup of his bedroom and garage?
No, what if Steven wanted to go back to prison so he freely allowed searches of his home where he left RAV4 key on his bedroom floor?

It looks to me as if the prosecution theory is more holes than undeniable facts.

 

[Karinna]

Too may 'what ifs' and 'maybes' in the prosecution case:

What if Steven held a grudge against all women because he was framed by LE?
Maybe Steven snuck into Bobby's bedroom while Bobby slept and looked up on the Dassey computer instead of the privacy of his own home?
What if Steven thought society owed him a free crime?
No, what if Steven wanted to go back to prison?
Maybe Steven 'lured' Teresa instead of conducting legitimate business as he'd always done before?
What if Steven took Teresa to quarry before dumping her remains in his own yard?
What if Steven wiped the RAV4 down?
No, maybe Steven wore gloves?
What if Steven sheds skin cells at least ten times more than anyone else?
Maybe Steven cleverly cleaned all of Teresa's DNA off the key and lanyard but wrecked the plan by contaminating it with his own DNA?
Maybe Steven executed a Dexter-level cleanup of his bedroom and garage?
No, what if Steven wanted to go back to prison so he freely allowed searches of his home where he left RAV4 key on his bedroom floor?

It looks to me as if the prosecution theory is more holes than undeniable facts.

Yes exactly. And a shoddy investigation does not a murderer make, no way, because how could it? IMO.

 

[Karinna]

This is an interesting read and lays out some of the issues KZ has in Avery's case.
(quote)
Never Underestimate Kathleen Zellner
Zellner has an uncanny ability to win unwinnable cases. Lawyers who have had the misfortune of facing her in the courtroom caution Wisconsin prosecutors to not underestimate her. If you bluff her, she will call you out.

“She’s smart as the dickens and skilled, skilled, skilled,” said Robert Smith, the attorney who defended Illinois’ Will County when Zellner sued and got a father, Kevin Fox, exonerated for murdering his three-year-old daughter, Riley.

“She makes use of all 52 cards and both jokers if you’re in the courtroom with her.”

Kathleen Zellner is a ruthless lawyer who has overturned more guilty convictions than any other private U.S. law firm. And right now, she’s Steven Avery’s best chance for freedom.
https://crimeola.com/kathleen-zellner-wiki-lawyer-steven-avery/

 

[CoolJ]

BBM - no .. she can't. She could say anyone in Two Rivers with no alibi could be the killer. She could say RH was waiting for TH on 147 after she left the ASY, followed her, and killed her which is no different that her BoD fairytale. KZ has theories about BoD/ST but zero evidence to back them up. She has to disprove any & all of the current evidence against SA to even get an evidentiary hearing. There are no eyewitnesses to the crime other than SA/BD and no video.

BBM - I suggest that you stop making suggestions. KZ's "evidence" is nothing more than speculation with zero proof to back it up. I am 100% convinced that Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey murdered Teresa Halbach and feel really bad for the Halbach family that KZ is making a spectacle out of their tragedy.

KZ has proven, without a doubt, that the murder did not happen in the manner the prosecution presented.
She has made strong and convincing arguments that each key piece of evidence was PLANTED.
It is not speculation, she has expert witnesses that have destroyed each piece of evidence, one by one.

Some just choose to bury their heads in the sand and ignore or disregard the fact that the states narrative has been 100% debunked.

 

[Karinna]

Thought this was interesting from the same article
(quote)
But, critics say, any blood from that vile would contain EDTA, a blood preservative. An FBI agent who testified at Avery’s murder trial said tests showed no EDTA in the blood evidence taken from the vehicle.

There is evidence the FBI blood test was rushed and an independent test of the blood that revealed EDTA could force a retrial.
(unquote)
I think quite a few people have questioned that blood test for EDTA by the FBI, and what did they have to compare the test to?
I don't think the test they did was a tried and valid test?
If the blood in the RAV was exposed to UV light apparently that degrades EDTA from what i have read.

 

[Sustained]

Too may 'what ifs' and 'maybes' in the prosecution case:

What if Steven held a grudge against all women because he was framed by LE?
Maybe Steven snuck into Bobby's bedroom while Bobby slept and looked up on the Dassey computer instead of the privacy of his own home?
What if Steven thought society owed him a free crime?
No, what if Steven wanted to go back to prison?
Maybe Steven 'lured' Teresa instead of conducting legitimate business as he'd always done before?
What if Steven took Teresa to quarry before dumping her remains in his own yard?
What if Steven wiped the RAV4 down?
No, maybe Steven wore gloves?
What if Steven sheds skin cells at least ten times more than anyone else?
Maybe Steven cleverly cleaned all of Teresa's DNA off the key and lanyard but wrecked the plan by contaminating it with his own DNA?
Maybe Steven executed a Dexter-level cleanup of his bedroom and garage?
No, what if Steven wanted to go back to prison so he freely allowed searches of his home where he left RAV4 key on his bedroom floor?

It looks to me as if the prosecution theory is more holes than undeniable facts.

BBM - all of the truthers feel the same way so you're in good company.

Legitimate business is not coming out in a towel to meet the Auto Trade chick. And if he had done legitimate business, why dial *67 to hide your identity ? Why leave Barb's phone # if you're the one that will be meeting TH ? As far as the DNA and cleanup, SA had at least 3 days before TH was reported missing. As far as I know, the key was found on the floor after the bookcase was shook. Who else had a big cut on their finger at the time of the crime ? And of TH was only there for 5 minutes, why didn't SA go back to work until 5pm ?

Zellner's tests prove nothing other than she knows how to procure experts that can do tests in a controlled environment 12+ years after the crime was committed.

But keep truthing ... nothing like a good conspiracy theory even though half of the LE enforcement personnel, prosecutors, and lab folks in Wisconsin would risk their jobs/careers/reputations to participate.

And go ahead and keep believing that Brendan Dassey made up everything lol ..

Common sense is the least common of all senses.

 

[Sustained]

KZ has proven, without a doubt, that the murder did not happen in the manner the prosecution presented.
She has made strong and convincing arguments that each key piece of evidence was PLANTED.
It is not speculation, she has expert witnesses that have destroyed each piece of evidence, one by one.

Some just choose to bury their heads in the sand and ignore or disregard the fact that the states narrative has been 100% debunked.

LOLOLOLOL ... I can't stop laughing at the "experts" ... especially the one who said Steven Avery could never have left his blood by the ignition key. Since the expert's test was done in broad daylight and not under duress. Laughable ....

 

[Karinna]

BBM - all of the truthers feel the same way so you're in good company.

Legitimate business is not coming out in a towel to meet the Auto Trade chick. And if he had done legitimate business, why dial *67 to hide your identity ? Why leave Barb's phone # if you're the one that will be meeting TH ? As far as the DNA and cleanup, SA had at least 3 days before TH was reported missing. As far as I know, the key was found on the floor after the bookcase was shook. Who else had a big cut on their finger at the time of the crime ? And of TH was only there for 5 minutes, why didn't SA go back to work until 5pm ?

Zellner's tests prove nothing other than she knows how to procure experts that can do tests in a controlled environment 12+ years after the crime was committed.

But keep truthing ... nothing like a good conspiracy theory even though half of the LE enforcement personnel, prosecutors, and lab folks in Wisconsin would risk their jobs/careers/reputations to participate.

And go ahead and keep believing that Brendan Dassey made up everything lol ..

Common sense is the least common of all senses.

BBM, So you have never heard of corruption then?
And like the State's expert Eisenberg that gave false testimony in the Shaun Rudy case and misidentified a foetus in a burn pit in the Shaun Rudy case, where the body of the mother was recovered with her foetus intact.
Or like Culhane who screwed up evidence of the hair in her lab in Avery's first conviction. Those wonderful state's experts?

 

[Sustained]

This is an interesting read and lays out some of the issues KZ has in Avery's case.
(quote)
Never Underestimate Kathleen Zellner
Zellner has an uncanny ability to win unwinnable cases. Lawyers who have had the misfortune of facing her in the courtroom caution Wisconsin prosecutors to not underestimate her. If you bluff her, she will call you out.

“She’s smart as the dickens and skilled, skilled, skilled,” said Robert Smith, the attorney who defended Illinois’ Will County when Zellner sued and got a father, Kevin Fox, exonerated for murdering his three-year-old daughter, Riley.

“She makes use of all 52 cards and both jokers if you’re in the courtroom with her.”

Kathleen Zellner is a ruthless lawyer who has overturned more guilty convictions than any other private U.S. law firm. And right now, she’s Steven Avery’s best chance for freedom.
https://crimeola.com/kathleen-zellner-wiki-lawyer-steven-avery/

Too bad she was not around when John Wayne Gacy was convicted. Perhaps she could have proven that the neighbor buried the bodies under the house and not Mr. Gacy.

 

[Karinna]

@Sustained, BTW i don't call myself a "truther". I am a sceptic in this case.

 

[Sustained]

BBM, So you have never heard of corruption then?
And like the State's expert Eisenberg that gave false testimony in the Shaun Rudy case and misidentified a foetus in a burn pit in the Shaun Rudy case, where the body of the mother was recovered with her foetus intact.
Or like Culhane who screwed up evidence of the hair in her lab in Avery's first conviction. Those wonderful state's experts?

Sure, corruption happens but corruption is on purpose and I hardly think Culhane did it on purpose.
To believe the evidence planting that KZ is touting, you have to believe a boatload of people were involved who would be risking their careers/pensions etc.

 

[Karinna]

Too bad she was not around when John Wayne Gacy was convicted. Perhaps she could have proven that the neighbor buried the bodies under the house and not Mr. Gacy.

What has that got to do with anything?

 

[Karinna]

Sure, corruption happens but corruption is on purpose and I hardly think Culhane did it on purpose.
To believe the evidence planting that KZ is touting, you have to believe a boatload of people were involved who would be risking their careers/pensions etc.

So you got to admit Eisenberg & Culhane aren't infallible then?
Those mistakes are the things that convict innocent people though. Very dangerous mistakes IMO

 

[Karinna]

And as far as LE etc. involved in corruption, sure they lay their careers etc. on the line to be involved in it. MC aren't the only ones there, it does happen in lots of other places as well.