Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[Sustained]

no i don't mean conditions like day or night... he should have left a bit of blood on the other stuff that he touched on her car (with no gloves on).. but there's nothing on the car door, or on the clutch, or was there?

That's just it ... no one knows if he used gloves, with which hand he touched what, whether he did a partial wipe down in the dark of the steering wheel/door handle, etc

 

[CoolJ]

Here's one link ...

ANOTHER AVERY ACCUSER AWAITS AVERY MAY BE CHARGED IN A 2004 SEXUAL ASSAULT CASE IF HE IS EXONERATED IN THE MURDER OF TERESA HALBACH.

And very simply - why is BoD not in jail if he indeed downloaded child pornography ? Why haven't charges been filed ?

So tell me, how do you cherry pick which Avery clan stories to believe? You have said everything they say is lies and half truths. Yet you seem to believe them when what they are saying fits your narrative.

Confirmation bias like I have never seen before.

 

[leslievernon]

hey... this is how we get rid of unwanted political enemies here in austria, too...
you accuse... and the destruction of somebody's reputation follows immediately.

i don't know if there was ever any evidence that avery did all of those things between his exoneration and the trial.

 

[CoolJ]

That's just it ... no one knows if he used gloves, with which hand he touched what, whether he did a partial wipe down in the dark of the steering wheel/door handle, etc

Do you realize how many “magical” things have to happen for the story to play out the way you seem to think it did? Which is exactly the way Kratz says it did by the way.

You are literally regurgitating Kratz’ narrative - bullet point by bullet point.

Do I need to remind you how morally inept Kratz is? From the reports, it appears he is a sexual predator. We know he is a narcissist and drug addict 100%. Yet you seem to buy everything he says. Why?

 

[Karinna]

That's just it ... no one knows if he used gloves, with which hand he touched what, whether he did a partial wipe down in the dark of the steering wheel/door handle, etc

How do you know this was all done in the dark?
‘Making a Murderer’: What Did Steven Avery’s Neighbor See?
(quote)
Klassen interviewed Siebert, now in his 70s, on a recent visit to Manitowoc County; for the first time, Siebert spoke publicly about two separate incidents he says he witnessed in early November 2005. Siebert claimed that in early November, “days” before Halbach’s car was found in the Avery lot, he was sitting in his backyard and saw what he believes was a RAV4 driving down the quarry road, followed closely by a white Jeep. While he admitted to Klassen that he couldn’t be 100 percent certain it was her car, he remembers this vehicle was the same blue-green color as Halbach’s, and he hadn’t seen many RAV4s at the time, so the vehicle stuck out to him. The cars were going about 40 miles an hour, he said – faster than the usual for the road – though he wasn’t able to see who was driving either vehicle. Siebert explained that he saw the two cars headed up the road and out of sight, then, about a half-hour later, the white Jeep came back down the road alone. “Shortly after,” he said, “the lady found the car back there.”
‘Making a Murderer’: What Did Steven Avery’s Neighbor See? – Rolling Stone

 

[Sustained]

How do you know this was all done in the dark?
‘Making a Murderer’: What Did Steven Avery’s Neighbor See?
(quote)
Klassen interviewed Siebert, now in his 70s, on a recent visit to Manitowoc County; for the first time, Siebert spoke publicly about two separate incidents he says he witnessed in early November 2005. Siebert claimed that in early November, “days” before Halbach’s car was found in the Avery lot, he was sitting in his backyard and saw what he believes was a RAV4 driving down the quarry road, followed closely by a white Jeep. While he admitted to Klassen that he couldn’t be 100 percent certain it was her car, he remembers this vehicle was the same blue-green color as Halbach’s, and he hadn’t seen many RAV4s at the time, so the vehicle stuck out to him. The cars were going about 40 miles an hour, he said – faster than the usual for the road – though he wasn’t able to see who was driving either vehicle. Siebert explained that he saw the two cars headed up the road and out of sight, then, about a half-hour later, the white Jeep came back down the road alone. “Shortly after,” he said, “the lady found the car back there.”
‘Making a Murderer’: What Did Steven Avery’s Neighbor See? – Rolling Stone

I don't ... it's speculation but BD had made some statements about moving the car in his statements to police and I happen to believe there are some truths in them. Also, why didn't Wilmer Siebert report this to the police ? I know from the article that his daughter called police about two cars going past a barricade but apparently there are no dispatch reports. Nothing was reported about the apparent Rav4 sighting.

 

[Karinna]

I don't ... it's speculation but BD had made some statements about moving the car in his statements to police and I happen to believe there are some truths in them. Also, why didn't Wilmer Siebert report this to the police ? I know from the article that his daughter called police about two cars going past a barricade but apparently there are no dispatch reports. Nothing was reported about the apparent Rav4 sighting.

BBM,No definitely not by LE , LOL. Just like Colbourn didn't report what the witness told him about sighting the RAV near ST's place either, nope just got ignored.

 

[Sustained]

BBM,No definitely not by LE , LOL. Just like Colbourn didn't report what the witness told him about sighting the RAV near ST's place either, nope just got ignored.

Anyone can come forward with a story 10+ years later.

Regarding Mr Siebert and a small observation ... Mr Siebert lives on the corner of Jambo Creek Rd and the Quarry Road. For him to see vehicles passing @ 40mph, they would have had to crossover Jambo Creek Rd without stopping.

 

[Karinna]

Anyone can come forward with a story 10+ years later.

Yeah and i'm glad he did because his information was ignored then.
Not that i think he would of followed his information up with LE at the time, he probably expected them to do the right thing.
The case has since gained notoriety with the Netflix series, and others have also contacted Ms. Zellner with information as well seeing as she has taken the case now and doing her own investigation.

 

[Sustained]

Yeah and i'm glad he did because his information was ignored then.
Not that i think he would of followed his information up with LE at the time, he probably expected them to do the right thing.
The case has since gained notoriety with the Netflix series, and others have also contacted Ms. Zellner with information as well seeing as she has taken the case now and doing her own investigation.

BBM - according to him. How does he know if Colborn drove down to the bridge and found it was not TH's car ? I'm sure the police had hundreds of sightings of TH's Rav4 after she was announced as missing.

 

[missy1974]

Anyone can come forward with a story 10+ years later.

Regarding Mr Siebert and a small observation ... Mr Siebert lives on the corner of Jambo Creek Rd and the Quarry Road. For him to see vehicles passing @ 40mph, they would have had to crossover Jambo Creek Rd without stopping.

This is not made up. There is a record of the call @ 26:37

 

[Sustained]

This is not made up. There is a record of the call @ 26:37

I believe that call made by Vicki Siebert was about cars going past the barricades on 11/7 and was assured there was LE working back there. Wilmer apparently saw the two cars going 40mph on 11/4, before the Rav4 was found.

‘Making a Murderer’: What Did Steven Avery’s Neighbor See? – Rolling Stone

 

[missy1974]

Here is a good place to start to understand what was on the Dassey computer:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Exhibits-Part-1-of-2.pdf

There was a CD that was submitted to the courts as well, but it was sealed, for obvious reasons.

In comparison, here is the Avery computer report:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Avery-Computer-Forensics-Report.pdf

The most interesting part of his computer info was that it as last shut down at 4:25pm on the 31st. Guess he stopped raping/torturing/killing TH long enough to shut his computer off.

 

[missy1974]

I believe that call made by Vicki Siebert was about cars going past the barricades on 11/7 and was assured there was LE working back there. Wilmer apparently saw the two cars going 40mph on 11/4, before the Rav4 was found.

‘Making a Murderer’: What Did Steven Avery’s Neighbor See? – Rolling Stone

I haven't read the above article, but here is the original one: What Steven Avery’s former neighbour witnessed

So you just think he was lying about the vehicles going into the Salvage yard before the RAV was found? Because he isn't lying about the other vehicles he saw go past the barricades when he was told to call if he saw anyone going past. I get that we have to make judgement calls about who to believe in this case.... but when we have independent verification (the recorded call)that something is true, doesn't it make the rest of his "story" more believable?

You know what's significant about the 7th is that everything was found on the 8th. The key, the license plate, the bones. The 7th was also the day they shut down and investigated the Kuss Rd area.

 

[CoolJ]

And very simply - why is BoD not in jail if he indeed downloaded child pornography ? Why haven't charges been filed ?

Good point. Why? Also, should Fassbender be in trouble for personally holding on to child pornography all these yrs? What was he doing with that?

Speaking of BoD, have you had a chance to reconsider your stance that he did not lie under oath?
I made a pretty strong argument that he did and you have yet to address 2/3 of my argument.

Why would the states star witness lie under oath?

 

[missy1974]

Good point. Why? Also, should Fassbender be in trouble for personally holding on to child pornography all these yrs? What was he doing with that?

Speaking of BoD, have you had a chance to reconsider your stance that he did not lie under oath?
I made a pretty strong argument that he did and you have yet to address 2/3 of my argument.

Why would the states star witness lie under oath?

I know this isn't addressed to me... but IMO I think they used these computer searches/images as leverage for Bobby to say what they wanted. Plus they put him on the defense almost immediately when they told him on the 5th that SA said Bobby was the last to see Teresa (was told to LE by Jodi and was in a recorded jail call), even if Bobby is/was innocent, he went into defensive mode.

 

[Sustained]

Here is a good place to start to understand what was on the Dassey computer:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Exhibits-Part-1-of-2.pdf

There was a CD that was submitted to the courts as well, but it was sealed, for obvious reasons.

In comparison, here is the Avery computer report:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Avery-Computer-Forensics-Report.pdf

The most interesting part of his computer info was that it as last shut down at 4:25pm on the 31st. Guess he stopped raping/torturing/killing TH long enough to shut his computer off.

A few questions ...

• Is it certain that Bobby was the only one home at the time using the Dassey computer ?
• I would think the media porn addicts use come in different forms, i.e. computers / DVDs / TV channels/etc. It appears that Bobby had an internet porn addiction and IIRC Steven had DVDs and some Directv porn channels. I am certainly not excusing Bobby's internet searches and it is curious that the internet searches stopped after 10/31/05 until 2/13/06.
• I'm not sure the Dassey report shows when the body pics were downloaded and if it was before TH's murder ?
• I'm not sure if Steven was a little more careful with his computer b/c he was a convicted felon.

As to SA shutting the computer off @ 4:25, he also made a call to TH at the same time. He also made several calls to Jodi that day. IMO, Teresa was already dead/near death in the garage in the back of the Rav4 @ 4:25.

 

[Sustained]

I haven't read the above article, but here is the original one: What Steven Avery’s former neighbour witnessed

So you just think he was lying about the vehicles going into the Salvage yard before the RAV was found? Because he isn't lying about the other vehicles he saw go past the barricades when he was told to call if he saw anyone going past. I get that we have to make judgement calls about who to believe in this case.... but when we have independent verification (the recorded call)that something is true, doesn't it make the rest of his "story" more believable?

You know what's significant about the 7th is that everything was found on the 8th. The key, the license plate, the bones. The 7th was also the day they shut down and investigated the Kuss Rd area.

He didn't say he saw the vehicles go into the salvage yard. He said he was sitting in his back yard on 11/4 and saw two vehicles go by @ 40mph - one was green like Teresa's and one looked like a white Jeep. Teresa had already been declared missing by 11/4. As I stated above, Siebert lives on the corner and any vehicle going 40mph in the direction he stated would have had to cross Jambo Creek Rd w/o stopping. If you look at Google Maps now, there is a house on Jambo Creek directly across from Sieberts. If that house was there in 2005, it would have obscured any view of Jambo Creek Rd to the right.

 

[missy1974]

A few questions ...

• Is it certain that Bobby was the only one home at the time using the Dassey computer ?
• I would think the media porn addicts use come in different forms, i.e. computers / DVDs / TV channels/etc. It appears that Bobby had an internet porn addiction and IIRC Steven had DVDs and some Directv porn channels. I am certainly not excusing Bobby's internet searches and it is curious that the internet searches stopped after 10/31/05 until 2/13/06.
• I'm not sure the Dassey report shows when the body pics were downloaded and if it was before TH's murder ?
• I'm not sure if Steven was a little more careful with his computer b/c he was a convicted felon.

As to SA shutting the computer off @ 4:25, he also made a call to TH at the same time. He also made several calls to Jodi that day. IMO, Teresa was already dead/near death in the garage in the back of the Rav4 @ 4:25.

There is way more information in the motions filed by KZ, and in the affidavit's from computer expert. That's why I said it was a good place to start to even get an understanding of what was on the computer.

The computer was in Bobby's room, there is evidence of this in a police video or photo, which of course he and Barb now deny it was even in there. KZ has it down to a percentage of the searches where only Bobby should have been home because others would have been at school/work. The blocks of missing data are because Barb had someone try to wipe the hard drive. There is more information that is not available to us because the CD submitted to the courts was sealed.

IMO Steven wasn't computer savvy or smart enough to realize that a computer could keep and store information. This is the same guy that was arrested for being in possession of a gun and didn't realize he couldn't.

The call to TH's phone was at 4:35 IIRC. If you believe even part of what Brendan said in his interviews, there is no way that she was killed before then. That would have only given Brendan a few minutes to do and see all he did. JMO

 

[missy1974]

He didn't say he saw the vehicles go into the salvage yard. He said he was sitting in his back yard on 11/4 and saw two vehicles go by @ 40mph - one was green like Teresa's and one looked like a white Jeep. Teresa had already been declared missing by 11/4.

ok fine, he doesn't see them go into the Salvage yard, but in that direction. My point is, you don't believe him, right? But yet another part of his story can actually be verified, so we know he didn't make that up 10+ years later. How do you pick and choose what to believe? and what in the world would Siebert have to gain by saying this now?