Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[Sustained]

The incident with his niece was investigated, it's in the CASO report. He was not charged.

If you were a young girl related to Avery, would you testify against him after being threatened with harm to you and/or your family ?

 

[Sustained]

Yeah, exactly. I’m not trying to give the guy a pass or anything, but I don’t see the significance.

And doesn’t 15-20 minutes for a rape sound like a really long time!?

I watch a lot of crime and cold case shows and there always seem to be suspects that are so shady and suspicious but in the end, it isn’t them. I see SA very much like that. He’s not a good guy, he’s done many questionable things. I think he was raised terribly backwards and never given actual instruction on how to be a decent human, and his family tree is full of the same kind of people. But when I look at the actual evidence used to convict him, I just don’t see how it adds up to guilt.

Watching MaM2 might make anyone suspicious of his guilt. I also watched it and thought ... hmm - yep, might be an alternate explanation. But I also looked at the circumstances on the afternoon/night of 10/31.

Here's an example - Zellner did a test of whether Steven's cut finger would leave blood next to the ignition switch. IMO, the car was moved to the back lot in the dark (4:49 sunset that day) so no one would see and SA might have fumbled with the key a few times before getting it in the ignition. If all he had to work with was the dome light (and we don't know if that was even working), he might have brushed up against the dash next to the ignition. I for one have certainly done this myself in the dark. And no one knows if SA had gloves on, took them off, put them back on. I'm sure the Wisconsin DOJ or the FBI could round up experts that could produce alternative explanations to everything Zellner tested.

Pretty easy to see how SA spends 18 years in prison because a woman falsely identifies him and has a lot of pent up anger. He said in public he wasn't mad at Beernsten, but what could he say. That he was going to get revenge ? Toss in the incident with him forcing the car off the road.

I have no doubt this man had a lot of hatred in general for women and was a ticking time bomb.

 

[Sustained]

The pdf. link you provided is a 2 page letter from supposedly SA to whom? Nothing really terrible in it that i can see. Talking about sex to whoever the letter is to that he purports to be in love with?
And watching pornography far as i know is not illegal, lots of people do that. And from LE obtaining Avery's PC at the time, there was nothing on it worthy of noting, unlike BoD's PC content.
Who is M.A.?

Don't know who M.A. is exactly other than she was a relative of SA and a minor.

In August 2004, at the age of 42, Steven Avery sexually assaults of a minor relative, M.A., who was 17 years old at the time. Brown County District Attorney John Zakowski is assigned as a special prosecutor to evaluate the allegations. Calumet County Sheriff Investigator Wendy Baldwin takes a statement from M.A. about being sexually assaulted and threatened by Steven Avery. M.A. states she is afraid of Steven Avery, and that Steven threatened to kill her and hurt her family if she told anyone. Steven also said that if M.A. told the police, everyone in the family would hate her. Doris Weber, a friend of the Avery family, said that Steven admitted to having sex with her. After meeting with the accuser, Zakowski said his office would not file charges in order to protect the identity of the minor. As investigations in the 2005 murder case progressed, information about another sexual assault allegation would come to light. The two cases remained otherwise unrelated.

As for the letter, I don't know but who was Steven's GF on 7/14/2017 ?

As for the Dassey computer, BoD has a clean criminal record and I have yet to to see the contents of the hard drive. Did SA even have a computer ?

 

[Poedelini]

Watching MaM2 might make anyone suspicious of his guilt. I also watched it and thought ... hmm - yep, might be an alternate explanation. But I also looked at the circumstances on the afternoon/night of 10/31.

Here's an example - Zellner did a test of whether Steven's cut finger would leave blood next to the ignition switch. IMO, the car was moved to the back lot in the dark (4:49 sunset that day) so no one woud see and SA might have fumbled with the key a few times before getting it in the ignition. If all he had to work with was the dome light (and we don't know if that was even working), he might have brushed up against the dash next to the ignition. I for one have certainly done this myself in the dark. And no one knows if SA had gloves on, took them off, put them back on. I'm sure the Wisconsin DOJ or the FBI could round up experts that could produce alternative explanations to everything Zellner tested.

Pretty easy to see how SA spends 18 years in prison because a woman falsely identifies him and has a lot of pent up anger. He said in public he wasn't mad at Beernsten, but what could he say. That he was going to get revenge ? Toss in the incident with him forcing the car off the road.

I have no doubt this man had a lot of hatred in general for women and was a ticking time bomb.

I sure would want them to try, because she explained alot pretty good.

 

[Sustained]

I sure would want them to try, because she explained alot pretty good.

You can bet they will if KZ is granted an evidentiary hearing. And that will drag on for months, if not years while they test and retest.

 

[Karinna]

Don't know who M.A. is exactly other than she was a relative of SA and a minor.

In August 2004, at the age of 42, Steven Avery sexually assaults of a minor relative, M.A., who was 17 years old at the time. Brown County District Attorney John Zakowski is assigned as a special prosecutor to evaluate the allegations. Calumet County Sheriff Investigator Wendy Baldwin takes a statement from M.A. about being sexually assaulted and threatened by Steven Avery. M.A. states she is afraid of Steven Avery, and that Steven threatened to kill her and hurt her family if she told anyone. Steven also said that if M.A. told the police, everyone in the family would hate her. Doris Weber, a friend of the Avery family, said that Steven admitted to having sex with her. After meeting with the accuser, Zakowski said his office would not file charges in order to protect the identity of the minor. As investigations in the 2005 murder case progressed, information about another sexual assault allegation would come to light. The two cases remained otherwise unrelated.

As for the letter, I don't know but who was Steven's GF on 7/14/2017 ?

As for the Dassey computer, BoD has a clean criminal record and I have yet to to see the contents of the hard drive. Did SA even have a computer ?

Again where is a link to this info.?
So the minor accuses SA of sexual assault but no charges are laid because she is a minor? I find that very strange because minor children that are sexually assaulted are victims of a crime, and their names are usually redacted in a criminal case far as i am aware, but it doesn't absolve the perpetrator from having committed the crime. She was also said to have been too frightened to report the crime against her, but obviously she did tell someone if it was investigated at the time, as she should.
In regard to BoD, he may not have had a prior record, but it is certainly a crime to view child pornography and download it to a computer, which is what KZ found on the Dassey computer.

 

[Karinna]

Watching MaM2 might make anyone suspicious of his guilt. I also watched it and thought ... hmm - yep, might be an alternate explanation. But I also looked at the circumstances on the afternoon/night of 10/31.

Here's an example - Zellner did a test of whether Steven's cut finger would leave blood next to the ignition switch. IMO, the car was moved to the back lot in the dark (4:49 sunset that day) so no one would see and SA might have fumbled with the key a few times before getting it in the ignition. If all he had to work with was the dome light (and we don't know if that was even working), he might have brushed up against the dash next to the ignition. I for one have certainly done this myself in the dark. And no one knows if SA had gloves on, took them off, put them back on. I'm sure the Wisconsin DOJ or the FBI could round up experts that could produce alternative explanations to everything Zellner tested.

Pretty easy to see how SA spends 18 years in prison because a woman falsely identifies him and has a lot of pent up anger. He said in public he wasn't mad at Beernsten, but what could he say. That he was going to get revenge ? Toss in the incident with him forcing the car off the road.

I have no doubt this man had a lot of hatred in general for women and was a ticking time bomb.

If this case ever gets a retrial i would think change of venue?
It would be about impossible for SA to get a fair trial in WI for the supposed murder of TH, IMO.

 

[Sustained]

Again where is a link to this info.?
So the minor accuses SA of sexual assault but no charges are laid because she is a minor? I find that very strange because minor children that are sexually assaulted are victims of a crime, and their names are usually redacted in a criminal case far as i am aware, but it doesn't absolve the perpetrator from having committed the crime. She was also said to have been too frightened to report the crime against her, but obviously she did tell someone if it was investigated at the time, as she should.
In regard to BoD, he may not have had a prior record, but it is certainly a crime to view child pornography and download it to a computer, which is what KZ found on the Dassey computer.

Here's one link ...

ANOTHER AVERY ACCUSER AWAITS AVERY MAY BE CHARGED IN A 2004 SEXUAL ASSAULT CASE IF HE IS EXONERATED IN THE MURDER OF TERESA HALBACH.

And very simply - why is BoD not in jail if he indeed downloaded child pornography ? Why haven't charges been filed ?

 

[Karinna]

And speaking of sexual misconduct
(quote)
Ex-DA Ken Kratz's law license suspended in sexting scandal
MADISON, Wis. - A former state prosecutor and victims' rights advocate who tried to spark a sexual relationship with a domestic abuse victim and made sexual remarks to social workers cannot practice law for four months, the Wisconsin Supreme Court announced Friday.

As well as suspending Ken Kratz's law license, the court called his actions "appalling" and ordered him to pay $23,904 to cover the costs of the disciplinary proceedings.

"This was exploitative behavior, harassing behavior, and a crass placement of his personal interests above those of his client, the State of Wisconsin," the court wrote in a collective decision that wasn't signed by any single justice.
Ex-DA Ken Kratz's law license suspended in sexting scandal
I guess none of the players in this case are upstanding citizens it seems.

 

[Karinna]

Here's one link ...

ANOTHER AVERY ACCUSER AWAITS AVERY MAY BE CHARGED IN A 2004 SEXUAL ASSAULT CASE IF HE IS EXONERATED IN THE MURDER OF TERESA HALBACH.

And very simply - why is BoD not in jail if he indeed downloaded child pornography ? Why haven't charges been filed ?

Thanks for posting the link.
Ask the Sherrif's Office in Manitowoc County? or the ones that withheld the evidence from the defense team.
Is there a statute of limitations there for such charges?

 

[Sustained]

Ask the Sherrif's Office in Manitowoc County? or the ones that withheld the evidence from the defense team.
Is there a statute of limitations there for such charges?

By my calculation, BoD is 33 years old now - you would think he would be investigated today if any of this was true in 2006. He has no criminal record so I have no idea ...

 

[Karinna]

By my calculation, BoD is 33 years old now - you would think he would be investigated today if any of this was true in 2006. He has no criminal record so I have no idea ...

That's why i asked if there was a statute of limitation with stuff like that?
I guess we don't know if after that discovery it has been reported to the appropriate authorities yet?

 

[Sustained]

If this case ever gets a retrial i would think change of venue?
It would be about impossible for SA to get a fair trial in WI for the supposed murder of TH, IMO.

Yes, I would think Zellner absolutely would file for a change of venue. But we're a long ways from that, even if things go Zellner's way. Since her last motion for an evidentiary hearing was denied, she now has to file the appeal with the WI CoA District 2 requesting an evidentiary hearing. You can bet that even if it's granted, the State will obtain their own experts and take months to perform their own testing. And they will then file their response to the appeal and then the judges decide. A new trial if granted, is years away.

 

[Karinna]

Here is some info. on it
(quote)
Child Pornography Laws
Child pornography is prohibited at the state and federal levels, with most charges being filed against individuals at the federal level. Despite some attempts by groups and individuals, child pornography is not protected under First Amendment rights, and the possession of or creation of this type of pornography will be punished harshly. The specific type of charge that one can face will vary depending on the situation, and laws are defined in 18 USC, section 2251, 2252, 2256, and 2260. It is important to note that a child doesn’t have to be depicted in sexual acts in order for an image to be considered child porn. Sexually suggestive photos that include naked children will be considered to be in violation of federal law. Also, despite local or state age of consent laws, no minor under the age of 18 can be depicted in pornographic materials.

Federal law deals with production, distribution, reception, and possession of child pornography. Federal law also deals with international commerce related to child porn – all cases involving the internet will be covered under federal law. States may also file charges against a suspect in addition to the federal charges.
Child Pornography + Laws, Charges & Statute of Limitations - Find Lawyer or Attorney Near Me

 

[Sustained]

Here is some info. on it
(quote)
Child Pornography Laws
Child pornography is prohibited at the state and federal levels, with most charges being filed against individuals at the federal level. Despite some attempts by groups and individuals, child pornography is not protected under First Amendment rights, and the possession of or creation of this type of pornography will be punished harshly. The specific type of charge that one can face will vary depending on the situation, and laws are defined in 18 USC, section 2251, 2252, 2256, and 2260. It is important to note that a child doesn’t have to be depicted in sexual acts in order for an image to be considered child porn. Sexually suggestive photos that include naked children will be considered to be in violation of federal law. Also, despite local or state age of consent laws, no minor under the age of 18 can be depicted in pornographic materials.

Federal law deals with production, distribution, reception, and possession of child pornography. Federal law also deals with international commerce related to child porn – all cases involving the internet will be covered under federal law. States may also file charges against a suspect in addition to the federal charges.
Child Pornography + Laws, Charges & Statute of Limitations - Find Lawyer or Attorney Near Me

If these could be federal crimes, why is Zellner not pushing this to the FBI to investigate ? Since she has pushed BoD as an alternative suspect, an investigation might certainly create some pressure on BoD and maybe some new info would materialize.

 

[Karinna]

Yes, I would think Zellner absolutely would file for a change of venue. But we're a long ways from that, even if things go Zellner's way. Since her last motion for an evidentiary hearing was denied, she now has to file the appeal with the WI CoA District 2 requesting an evidentiary hearing. You can bet that even if it's granted, the State will obtain their own experts and take months to perform their own testing. And they will then file their response to the appeal and then the judges decide. A new trial if granted, is years away.

KZ has stated herself that these post conviction cases are never won in the lower courts. It is a legal process that can take years, but she is in it for the long haul, and IMO she will succeed.

 

[Karinna]

If these could be federal crimes, why is Zellner not pushing this to the FBI to investigate ? Since she has pushed BoD as an alternative suspect, an investigation might certainly create some pressure on BoD and maybe some new info would materialize.

BBM, We don't know that she hasn't.

 

[leslievernon]

@Sustained
sure, the state's expert could challenge KZs experiments...
but they are gonna have a hard time explaining why there is blood here... but not there...

you see what i mean?

 

[Sustained]

@Sustained
sure, the state's expert could challenge KZs experiments...
but they are gonna have a hard time explaining why there is blood here... but not there...

you see what i mean?

Maybe - maybe not ... as I stated above, all of Zellner's experiments were done in daylight. IMO, Avery moved the Rav4 at night and probably when it was pitch black. I don't believe there are lights back where he put the car. How do you recreate something unless you can replicate the exact conditions of when it happened ?

 

[leslievernon]

no i don't mean conditions like day or night... he should have left a bit of blood on the other stuff that he touched on her car (with no gloves on).. but there's nothing on the car door, or on the clutch, or was there?