Student suspended for sexual harassment after hugging teacher

[Snoods]

As a teacher of over 20 years I would just like to interject my feelings on this very controversial subject. My last 2 years of teaching were in an inner city middle school. I was warned this was a rough school but I was up for the challenge. Students brought razorblades to school, threw chairs and staplers. A few years prior one of the students shot an ice cream man in front of the school because he wouldn't give him a free ice cream cone. A year suspension for a hug? Even if his lips touched the teacher's neck, intentional or not, this is extreme. After all of the senseless murders we continually see on WS, I could only wish there were more hugs in this world. I will discreetly leave before the :bigfight:

Aww, sweet Plumy! :hug:

 

[Plumeria5]

I agree with you about that, that is what has me scratching my head like a chimpanzee at this point. Who is up for a school break-in with me to check out the records? :giggle:

Well, at least they can't suspend you for that. :blushing: Arrest you maybe, but no suspension!

 

[hambirg]

BBM. Again, are they unable to determine whether they want someone to initiate physical contact or not?

Absolutely not.

However, if you are going to work with children you better damn well understand them. Do no harm, kwim?

If you can't tolerate and interpret an innocent hug given with no ill intentions, regardless of your own personal needs and wants, than you shouldn't be working with children. Chit happens. Kids are not perfect. They are still learning. Go get a job as a bank teller or something, where you won't be subject to affectionate hugs from students.

ETA- You know what? I worked for a year in a classroom with emotionally disturbed students. I've been hit, kicked and bit. I've been told to "show me your t*ts, b*tch" by 9 and 10 year old boys. I've been charged with pencils and have had desks thrown at me. Never once did I run to my administration and cry victim. I knew full well what I was getting myself into. I prided myself on being the professional. Every damn day I took a deep breathe and reminded myself that these were children. . .most of them victims of abuse, everyone of them boys. I reminded myself that they had needs that they couldn't express. I was the adult and I could take it. I wouldn't have changed a thing!

If you can't tolerate or re-direct student behavior, no matter how you personally feel about it, than get out of teaching. . .it's not for you!

 

[Snoods]

Well, at least they can't suspend you for that. :blushing: Arrest you maybe, but no suspension!

I would just awkwardly hug the police....

Sorry everyone, I make dumb jokes when I'm uncomfortable! *Ducking*

 

[Plumeria5]

I would just awkwardly hug the police....

Sorry everyone, I make dumb jokes when I'm uncomfortable! *Ducking*

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

:grouphug:

 

[hambirg]

As a teacher of over 20 years I would just like to interject my feelings on this very controversial subject. My last 2 years of teaching were in an inner city middle school. I was warned this was a rough school but I was up for the challenge. Students brought razorblades to school, threw chairs and staplers. A few years prior one of the students shot an ice cream man in front of the school because he wouldn't give him a free ice cream cone. A year suspension for a hug? Even if his lips touched the teacher's neck, intentional or not, this is extreme. After all of the senseless murders we continually see on WS, I could only wish there were more hugs in this world. I will discreetly leave before the :bigfight:

This! :hug:

Oh, don't misconstrue my hug smilie as sexual harassment!

 

[Snoods]

This! :hug:

Oh, don't misconstrue my hug smilie as sexual harassment!

:floorlaugh: Okay, that was funny!

 

[Leilei]

In all of my years teaching, ( I have a college BA in Elementary Education and was fully certified) I DID lunch duty. Every day! We did not have the luxury of having a "para" to do ANYTHING for us. There was no such person in our schools. The teachers did it all.

I suspect there is more to this story but the school is bound by privacy laws and legalities with what they can say whereas the parents have NO such restrictions and are free to say whatever they want.

My hubby is a middle school teacher, English Education, and it is the same way at his school. The teachers take their students to the lunch room, stand by their table (not enough chairs for them to sit down), then take them back to class, stopping at the restrooms along the way. Same with bus duty before and after school. We are actually in the Atlanta area, too, different school district/county, though.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I watched the video many times. You can see him turn his head inward where his face and mouth are in her neck. She then pushes him away and you can tell she is disgusted. He states in the video that she then yelled at him to get out.

The teacher made a report. The teacher isn't the one that decides the extent of his punishment. He was given a year suspension in 7th grade of a weapon. In the 9th grade he was given a year suspension for a fight. The boy blames the two incidents on others in his interview, accepting no responsibility. I doubt that the school just hands out year long suspensions all the time for no good reason. They would investigate first and take various matters into consideration.

There may be a "pattern" with this boy we are not privy to and unfortunately, the school is not allowed to show all the details.

The teacher states that he was ask to not touch her previously. She has no motivation to lie. His continued physical contact when ask not to do something by a teacher, shows that he is not respecting authority and pushing boundaries.

He and his mother are concerned about him loosing a college football scholarship. That's why attending the alternative school in order for him to graduate is not acceptable to them. He would not be able to participate in sports.

We are not privy to how many minor offenses he has or what the school has done to work with him in the past, because he only tells about 2 year long suspensions.

I don't want to see this young man loose a chance at a college scholarship, if he is eligible for one. The schools actions indicate to me though, that he has some issues that need to be addressed.

He certainly can't go forward through life walking up behind females, hugging them and nuzzling his face in their necks. Especially if he has been told "not to touch" before and for whatever reason he chooses to disregard that. Male or female, Yuck!! Someone's face/mouth up against my neck is creepy, unless that person and I are very close.

Maybe he needs another year before he goes off to college. I don't know. Hopefully the appeal will result in a outcome that will be favorable to all.

 

[Tawny]

Questioning her reasons and motivations in making the report makes me sad. Doubting that she really told him before to not hug her makes me sad. Suggesting she led him on in some way by holding his hand or allowing hugs previously, makes me sad. Her "body language"?

We are putting all of this on the woman who felt uncomfortable enough to not only push him away but to report it to her superiors.

ETA: I know this kid isn't some violent rapist, that isn't my issue. My issue is with questioning the person who felt uncomfortable, suggesting she is somehow culpable.

 

[Hejlena]

I do see both sides of this, I really do. But I think referring to the boy as part of the rape culture may be a bit strong. I do realize the teacher may not have wanted the hug. But comparing an unwanted hug to a rape is unfair to rape victims, I believe. I have never been a victim of rape so I'm not speaking for anyone, just my opinion.

The boy and his family are denying the reports, so I guess I'll just wait to see what happens before I make a firm decision. At this point, I'm siding with the boy in that I believe the punishment is way too severe.

It's not the boy I am referring to when I speak of rape culture--it is the repeated justifications and minimizations of his actions and blaming his victim submitted by many here as well as his mother. and based on the information we are given it was not just one unwanted hug.

We may all see different things when we view the video. I don't see her holding his hand. I actually see her hand taking his as kind of a defensive or preemptive move due to the fact that his hand is very near her left breast. Admittedly, my take on the video could be colored by the information that this instance of "hugging" (read unwanted touching) is part of a pattern of behaviors which he has been repeatedly asked to stop.

This has nothing to do with whether the woman is a teacher, custodian, or any other myriad career possibilities. He has been asked not to do it. He chose to continue. The policy is clear.

As for all the worry that he may not be able to play football?? Boo hoo. Playing football is a priveldge, not a right. My own son has sat out practices for lesser offences-my rules.

This isn't about sexualizing everything a boy does. Repeated personal and physical boundary violations are acts of psychological violence.

This isn't about a teacher not being able to "take it". Our job is to teach children appropriate boundaries. I have also worked EBD and autism and have been spit on, kicked, head butted, name-called, etc, and while we don't hand out suspensions and we do recognize what part a student's background and ability play in their behavior, we also are charged with teaching them these behaviors are not ok.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Where are these previous write ups? Detention slips? Copies of notification to his parent?

I find it a little unbelievable he was repeatedly warned about hugging with no such documentation.

I would change my opinion if such evidence is produced. I am unwilling to simply take the teacher's word for it. I've seen too many adults in charge of children lie to blindly trust her word.




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[Tawny]

Where are these previous write ups? Detention slips? Copies of notification to his parent?

I find it a little unbelievable he was repeatedly warned about hugging with no such documentation.

I would change my opinion if such evidence is produced. I am unwilling to simply take the teacher's word for it. I've seen too many adults in charge of children lie to blindly trust her word.




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My understanding is that due to his age and the school policies, that information can't be released, but I may be mistaken.

I would imagine parents would be highly upset if their minor children's school disciplinary records were available for anyone to browse through. JMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

My understanding is that due to his age and the school policies, that information can't be released, but I may be mistaken.

I would imagine parents would be highly upset if their minor children's school disciplinary records were available for anyone to browse through. JMO.

Let me be super clear here. If it turns out that this young man and his mother have lied and records are produced to prove she was indeed notified & he was previously reprimanded for hugging, I'll fully support the school and their decision.

Until such time, I'll support the young man and his mother.


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[BeginnersLuck]

Again, it's not fair that the boy and mother can tell their story and the school is bound by laws that prevent them from showing why they came to their decision. The teacher made a report because enough is enough.

Parents that don't teach their children healthy boundaries or brush off their childs actions and blame others when their child doesn't respect personal space, are doing them a disservice because it may backfire at some point in the childs life. It's just basic common sense that you don't invade others space and keep your hands to yourself. You don't hit somebody, get in someones space and touch or feel them, or walk up behind them and grab them and then stick you mouth in their neck.

 

[Tawny]

Let me be super clear here. If it turns out that this young man and his mother have lied and records are produced to prove she was indeed notified & he was previously reprimanded for hugging, I'll fully support the school and their decision.

Until such time, I'll support the young man and his mother.


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We will have to agree to disagree. I will fully support the school and their decision until I see proof that the teacher lied. I don't want to use such a strong word as "victim," but that is basically what she was in this situation. A recipient of unwanted physical touching/intrusion.

 

[Snoods]

It's not the boy I am referring to when I speak of rape culture--it is the repeated justifications and minimizations of his actions and blaming his victim submitted by many here as well as his mother. and based on the information we are given it was not just one unwanted hug.

We may all see different things when we view the video. I don't see her holding his hand. I actually see her hand taking his as kind of a defensive or preemptive move due to the fact that his hand is very near her left breast. Admittedly, my take on the video could be colored by the information that this instance of "hugging" (read unwanted touching) is part of a pattern of behaviors which he has been repeatedly asked to stop.

This has nothing to do with whether the woman is a teacher, custodian, or any other myriad career possibilities. He has been asked not to do it. He chose to continue. The policy is clear.

As for all the worry that he may not be able to play football?? Boo hoo. Playing football is a priveldge, not a right. My own son has sat out practices for lesser offences-my rules.

This isn't about sexualizing everything a boy does. Repeated personal and physical boundary violations are acts of psychological violence.

This isn't about a teacher not being able to "take it". Our job is to teach children appropriate boundaries. I have also worked EBD and autism and have been spit on, kicked, head butted, name-called, etc, and while we don't hand out suspensions and we do recognize what part a student's background and ability play in their behavior, we also are charged with teaching them these behaviors are not ok.

Okay, thank you for responding and clarifying that. I apologize for making that assumption. I'm not trying to blame anyone or justify anyone's actions here either. You could be absolutely right about the young man and I could be wrong. I can see everyone's point here. I just still don't believe yet that the punishment fits the crime.

 

[Snoods]

Let me be super clear here. If it turns out that this young man and his mother have lied and records are produced to prove she was indeed notified & he was previously reprimanded for hugging, I'll fully support the school and their decision.

Until such time, I'll support the young man and his mother.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

I agree with this.

 

[Karmady]

It's not the boy I am referring to when I speak of rape culture--it is the repeated justifications and minimizations of his actions and blaming his victim submitted by many here as well as his mother. and based on the information we are given it was not just one unwanted hug.

We may all see different things when we view the video. I don't see her holding his hand. I actually see her hand taking his as kind of a defensive or preemptive move due to the fact that his hand is very near her left breast. Admittedly, my take on the video could be colored by the information that this instance of "hugging" (read unwanted touching) is part of a pattern of behaviors which he has been repeatedly asked to stop.

This has nothing to do with whether the woman is a teacher, custodian, or any other myriad career possibilities. He has been asked not to do it. He chose to continue. The policy is clear.

As for all the worry that he may not be able to play football?? Boo hoo. Playing football is a priveldge, not a right. My own son has sat out practices for lesser offences-my rules.

This isn't about sexualizing everything a boy does. Repeated personal and physical boundary violations are acts of psychological violence.

This isn't about a teacher not being able to "take it". Our job is to teach children appropriate boundaries. I have also worked EBD and autism and have been spit on, kicked, head butted, name-called, etc, and while we don't hand out suspensions and we do recognize what part a student's background and ability play in their behavior, we also are charged with teaching them these behaviors are not ok.

Even if he did what he's accused of here, I have a hard time referring to the teacher as a "victim." She's not been physically or psychologically harmed in any way. She as touched, possibly somewhat inappropriately, by a student. That doesn't make her a "victim" imo. It makes her possibly someone who was touched in a way she didn't want or expect. If that's the definition, I've been a victim of subway assaults too many times to mention.

 

[silversurvivor]

Absolutely not.

However, if you are going to work with children you better damn well understand them. Do no harm, kwim?

If you can't tolerate and interpret an innocent hug given with no ill intentions, regardless of your own personal needs and wants, than you shouldn't be working with children. Chit happens. Kids are not perfect. They are still learning. Go get a job as a bank teller or something, where you won't be subject to affectionate hugs from students.

ETA- You know what? I worked for a year in a classroom with emotionally disturbed students. I've been hit, kicked and bit. I've been told to "show me your t*ts, b*tch" by 9 and 10 year old boys. I've been charged with pencils and have had desks thrown at me. Never once did I run to my administration and cry victim. I knew full well what I was getting myself into. I prided myself on being the professional. Every damn day I took a deep breathe and reminded myself that these were children. . .most of them victims of abuse, everyone of them boys. I reminded myself that they had needs that they couldn't express. I was the adult and I could take it. I wouldn't have changed a thing!

If you can't tolerate or re-direct student behavior, no matter how you personally feel about it, than get out of teaching. . .it's not for you!

i agree with you but there are always exceptions. I taught for 13 yrs the same students only older (13-21) in a residential setting, emotionally disturbed boys and girls. I have permanent injuries from some. I can say i have had murderers, thieves, rapists etc in my classes and not been frightened.

however there are some who are capable of raising the hair on the back of your neck with out even touching you. and when those children (male or female) hug or touch you with out permission, some times the first instinct is to not react. as i write this i remember one in particular who got a thrill out of making me uncomfortable, he would touch me to try to get a response. i did document it even though i felt stupid, or as if i was overreacting. i wait to see his name in the papers some day. there was also a female who at every chance possible would "accidentally" brush up against me, esp my breasts. she had to be removed from my class for a suspension.

and as far as the duties? as a teacher i did breakfast duty, lunch duty as well as dorm duties.