6-year-old boy suspended from school for kissing student on the cheek

[Linda7NJ]

So why do kids have to be told "no" over and over again all the time? Since they are fully capable of understanding no the first time, parents shouldn't have to repeat themselves, right?

Or is every single parent in the history of the world a failure because he/she has had to repeat themselves numerous times to their children?

If only I had a dollar for every time I had to repeat myself


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[Linda7NJ]

If the parents do it right there is no need to say it over and over. The first thing to teach your children is when you say no you mean it. If they don't think you mean it they will either keep asking or they will keep doing what they are told not to. That is up to the parents. In my house No means no. In my house growing up No was no.

This of course comes with age so a 2 yr old , You should say it a lot, A 5 yr old should get it more and a 6 yr old even more.

There has to be consequences to not following the rules or in this case touching another child in which it has been perfectly clear she does not want to be touched.

Growing up I had friends whose parents never took the time to explain anything, never actually listened to the children either. By high-school they were brilliant sneaks and liars. Looking back now as an adult... Those parents set up an adversarial relationship based on fear and punishment that did not benefit their children in any way. Their children never went to them for help, advice, consoling nothing.

One set the above parents still lives next door to my parents home, despite having 4 children... Not a one ever visits. Not even on holidays.

My parents always took the time to listen and teach. I always valued their opinion even though I didn't always listen .... I knew I could trust them with anything.... Even when I screwed up. A simple " I'm disappointed in you" was enough to have me bawling and feel that disappointment in myself and vow to myself to do better.

I love, respect and admire my parents. I've tried to raise my son the same way, I admit they had more patience than I ... But I strive everyday to do better than the last.


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[hambirg]

If the parents do it right there is no need to say it over and over. The first thing to teach your children is when you say no you mean it. If they don't think you mean it they will either keep asking or they will keep doing what they are told not to. That is up to the parents. In my house No means no. In my house growing up No was no.

This of course comes with age so a 2 yr old , You should say it a lot, A 5 yr old should get it more and a 6 yr old even more.

There has to be consequences to not following the rules or in this case touching another child in which it has been perfectly clear she does not want to be touched.

I HAVE to address this. I'm not picking on you. I know that there are many parents that share your views. However, IMHO it is so wrong. I don't believe that children are intrinsically bad. Not saying that children can't be capable of bad behavior, but I believe serious behavior issues are a result of dysfunction. If you as a parent can't believe in the goodness of your own children, than how in the world are they ever going to believe it and internalize it?

There was a semi famous study, Dr Luby, I believe. They sat preschoolers at a table with their mothers and gave them a wrapped present. The children were told they had to wait to open it. The children, naturally, didn't want to wait to open the present. However, some mother's explained to their children why they had to wait. . .and they told them things like, "it won't be much longer." Those children, later compared to the children who's mothers just told them no, had significant larger brains and higher emotional development. It has been proven repeatedly, that blind obedience, is not beneficial to the child. Children should be encouraged to trust their own instincts and thought processes. If you are constantly telling them no and what to do and not do, that won't happen.

Obedience was never a goal with my children, I much prefer they learn from their mistakes and intrinsically know right from wrong. I won't always be there to monitor them. I like being able to trust they will do the right thing, not because I told them, but because it comes from within them.

 

[tlcya]

Growing up I had friends whose parents never took the time to explain anything, never actually listened to the children either. By high-school they were brilliant sneaks and liars. Looking back now as an adult... Those parents set up an adversarial relationship based on fear and punishment that did not benefit their children in any way. Their children never went to them for help, advice, consoling nothing.

One set the above parents still lives next door to my parents home, despite having 4 children... Not a one ever visits. Not even on holidays.

My parents always took the time to listen and teach. I always valued their opinion even though I didn't always listen .... I knew I could trust them with anything.... Even when I screwed up. A simple " I'm disappointed in you" was enough to have me bawling and feel that disappointment in myself and vow to myself to do better.

I love, respect and admire my parents. I've tried to raise my son the same way, I admit they had more patience than I ... But I strive everyday to do better than the last.


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The BBM struck me. I had a similar experience. Each child is different. Some must learn by repetition, some need only hear it once, some are most affected in a lasting way by discipline. I was raised in the days of whoopins. Sometimes even with a belt. I came up in the days where it was common to hear, "just wait til your father gets home" in my home and that of my friends. That phrase meant physical discipline.

But for me, the worst thing, the thing that usually stopped me in my tracks and really made me think hard was hearing and seeing their disappointment in me. It was not the loss of privileges, the groundings, the whoopins, or any punishment. It was them sitting me down and saying and showing their disappointment. That got me, it hurt me to realize I was letting them down by comporting myself in a way other than acceptable. That is what stuck with me over the long haul.

I took the modeling of my childhood and altered it. What was not the greatest I left behind, back there. What was effective and felt right for me I tried very hard to carry on into my childrearing years.

 

[hambirg]

Thanks for posting this. I was hoping someone with some first-hand knowledge would, because I see, all over the papers or on the news, young children like this, acting in a sexually inappropriate way for their age. Now, they may not know what they're doing (mimicking behavior they've seen), or maybe they do, I don't know.

Growing up, I had friends who lived down the street. I was about 6 or 7 at the time. I went over to their house, used the restroom, and saw a picture on the back of the door of a penis with a pair of fake eyes on it (the penis, of course, was the "nose".) Not amazingly, I remember it to this day. Also not surprising, my "friends" wanted us to take all our clothes off, and rub our bodies together, the way they'd seen their "grown-ups" do. I've always wondered what became of those people.

BBM

It's actually not sexually inappropriate for their age. It's quite normal. Six year olds have been playing "show me yours" for a long time. I'm not suggesting that they not be taught why it is not acceptable. But they are learning about social norms and that behavior is not unusual at all.

 

[tlcya]

I HAVE to address this. I'm not picking on you. I know that there are many parents that share your views. However, IMHO it is so wrong. I don't believe that children are intrinsically bad. Not saying that children can't be capable of bad behavior, but I believe serious behavior issues are a result of dysfunction. If you as a parent can't believe in the goodness of your own children, than how in the world are they ever going to believe it and internalize it?

There was a semi famous study, Dr Luby, I believe. They sat preschoolers at a table with their mothers and gave them a wrapped present. The children were told they had to wait to open it. The children, naturally, didn't want to wait to open the present. However, some mother's explained to their children why they had to wait. . .and they told them things like, "it won't be much longer." Those children, later compared to the children who's mothers just told them no, had significant larger brains and higher emotional development. It has been proven repeatedly, that blind obedience, is not beneficial to the child. Children should be encouraged to trust their own instincts and thought processes. If you are constantly telling them no and what to do and not do, that won't happen.

Obedience was never a goal with my children, I much prefer they learn from their mistakes and intrinsically know right from wrong. I won't always be there to monitor them. I like being able to trust they will do the right thing, not because I told them, but because it comes from within them.

just wanted to say I appreciated your post and agree with the BBM particularly.

 

[Tawny]

Obedience was never a goal with my children, I much prefer they learn from their mistakes and intrinsically know right from wrong. I won't always be there to monitor them. I like being able to trust they will do the right thing, not because I told them, but because it comes from within them.

RSBM I agree.

One example is running out into the street. We didn't tell her "NO" and leave it at that, we explained "Don't run into the street because you are still small and cars can't see you, so you need to stay in the yard so you don't get runned over"

The test came one day when 2 of her little friends ran right out into the street, and even though we were out of sight, she stopped and actually scolded them saying "Daddy says we are little and could get squished, guys". She didn't just follow directions, she understood why she shouldn't bolt out into the street.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Snipped by me.

Hon, this is not about teacher's unions. Can we leave politics to the political threads? Please?

I think a rule that kids can no longer touch each other in school is absurd. I know of no such rule in my district. Why can't kids hug, and play tag, or pat each other on the back, give each other high fives, hold hands or wrestle around a bit, or braid each other's hair, etc.? This is "zero tolerance" nonsense. Human beings are designed to touch each other and not all touching is aggressive or sexual. Most is not.

That's such a sad rule and one I think designed by the same mediocre "officials" who apparently so lack common sense that they have to create ludicrous "rules", like zero tolerance for "fighting" even when the "fighting" is actually just a student defending themselves or someone else, or zero tolerance for all "drugs', including an aspirin, or for all "weapons" including butter knives, or zero tolerance for any gun play, including the very natural shaping of fingers into a gun that many kids do.

Also, "sexual harassment"? By a 6 year old? Give me a break. I would be so offended if I were the parent of the little baby, who has only been out of the womb for 6 years, being accused of sexual harassment. Silly and sad.

However, if he is a kid who won't stop bothering people or listening to the teacher, then he was sent to the principal's office "fair and square" as he himself says and if it has happened so many times, despite being warned and punished repeatedly, to the degree that it is totally disruptive, then a suspension is the last resort. Whoever said a suspension is more for the parents is right. It's often to try to force the parents to deal with an out of control child. And sometimes, such parents use whatever they can to distract from their lack of parenting.

So in sum, my opinion is that:

1. There should be no school policy forbidding non-sexual or non-aggressive touching between children.
2. Any policy labeling as "sexual harassment" the conduct of a 5 or 6 year old is nonsensical tripe.
3. It seems like the kid himself understands why he was punished and feels he deserved it.
4. The child in this story seems to be disruptive with his "energy" at school and mom, instead of taking responsibility and trying to help him with that, may be trying to use something stupid on the part of the district, to distract from her own shortcomings as a parent.

I agree with every word,

The most frightening aspect to me is this occurred at a public school .....by "college educated experts" paid to educate young minds....
THUD!

Did anyone see the news report out of PA about a 10 yr old suspended for shooting an IMAGINARY bow and arrow????

WTF? Has the country gone mad?




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[gitana1]

I agree with every word,

The most frightening aspect to me is this occurred at a public school .....by "college educated experts" paid to educate young minds....
THUD!

Did anyone see the news report out of PA about a 10 yr old suspended for shooting an IMAGINARY bow and arrow????

WTF? Has the country gone mad?

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God help us. Really.

 

[Swirlz]

He has not been registered as a sex offender. If he punched a kid he would not be "labeled" a violent criminal and if he stole from the teacher's desk he would not be brought before the courts for grand larceny. He would have a few boxes on the form checked and that's it.

On the form- which the schools do not write- they need to document the offense to explain the consequence. Having a suspension under his belt may well qualify him for help that he needs that he otherwise wouldn't be entitled to. If he doesn't need any, this will hopefully get it across to his parents. He can't kiss the girls when they don't want that, or in school at all, really, no matter how cute his parents think it is.

In no way has this kid been labeled a predator.

 

[Nova]

Clearly that boy needs to learn about boundaries and personal space and I feel for the girl who asserted herself to no avail, but I think the adults involved took things a little too far.

When my son was in grade 2 a girl kept hugging him and he didn't like it so he punched her in the stomach. They both got in trouble and the teacher made them clean the boards or desks together so they would learn to co-exist. There were no suspensions; media was not called; no one was labelled in any way. They are 18 now and he isn't adverse to being touched, nor is he violent in anyway, and she isn't a creepy mccreepster. Kids have to learn how to act civilly in society and some take longer than others. IMO.

Indeed. And in fact that is one of the great arguments for universal public education, that it teaches children to get along with children like them and unlike them.

 

[oh_gal]

BBM

It's actually not sexually inappropriate for their age. It's quite normal. Six year olds have been playing "show me yours" for a long time. I'm not suggesting that they not be taught why it is not acceptable. But they are learning about social norms and that behavior is not unusual at all.

Sorry, I guess I should have said, "acceptable", not "appropriate".

 

[Swirlz]

This incident involved unwanted kissing. Thus, it meets certain definitions of sexual harassment. It's not OK for the school to say, "No, we've never had any sexual harassment, just a series of incidents that involve repeated unwanted kissing between children." Some districts track certain kinds of disciplinary incidents and report the stats as a matter of public record. It would not be appropriate for the school to deny that this is an instance of sexual harassment for that purpose. This incident indicates that the school has an issue with sexual harassment, and school staff and administration need to identify and implement age-appropriate strategies for prevention and intervention.

This 6yo boy doesn't understand what he is doing as sexual harassment, because he doesn't know what that is. He's 6, so there are a lot of things he doesn't know. The 6yo girl involved seems to have learned quite a bit about sexual harassment from this series of incidents. Calling this incident sexual harassment acknowledges her experience.

 

[Tawny]

It meets certain definitions of sexual harassment if an adult were to do it.

 

[oh_gal]

This incident involved unwanted kissing. Thus, it meets certain definitions of sexual harassment. It's not OK for the school to say, "No, we've never had any sexual harassment, just a series of incidents that involve repeated unwanted kissing between children." Some districts track certain kinds of disciplinary incidents and report the stats as a matter of public record. It would not be appropriate for the school to deny that this is an instance of sexual harassment for that purpose. This incident indicates that the school has an issue with sexual harassment, and school staff and administration need to identify and implement age-appropriate strategies for prevention and intervention.

This 6yo boy doesn't understand what he is doing as sexual harassment, because he doesn't know what that is. He's 6, so there are a lot of things he doesn't know. The 6yo girl involved seems to have learned quite a bit about sexual harassment from this series of incidents. Calling this incident sexual harassment acknowledges her experience.

(bbm)
He may not understand a term like sexual harassment (many adults don't, either), but he most probably knows, after all this, that his behavior was unacceptable. If nothing else, this situation provides a wonderful teaching moment for the teachers and parents.

 

[Ladylub]

Classifying this as sexual harassment is ridiculous. If there is a no touching rule then give him a punishment but make it fit the broken rule. He does need to learn personal space and all that but he is still young and it might be a work in progress. Do the kids who get into a fist fight get labeled as a physical abuser?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Sadly, this little girl is learning a lesson at an early age: Reject a boy, and you will face criticism and ridicule for it. A boy who makes unwanted "advances" on a girl is "cute" and if she doesn't like it, she's uptight. After all, he was just kissing her hand...that's so "adorable" and "romantic"...and how dare she (and her mother) not like it!

You also have to love how the media is framing it like ~Oh this poor (annoying) boy...he just had a little crush, and then the mean girl, mother, teachers (evil women) put a stop to it!". Why don't they talk about the girl's side? About how she had to deal with him constantly harassing her?

And of course the online comments are all blaming the Mom, because she's [insert insult here] for not allowing some sweet little romantic to bother her daughter.

I am just glad that someone out there is acting in the interest of the VICTIM for once. Can we please stop this "boys will boys" mentality?

 

[oh_gal]

Sadly, this little girl is learning a lesson at an early age: Reject a boy, and you will face criticism and ridicule for it. A boy who makes unwanted "advances" on a girl is "cute" and if she doesn't like it, she's uptight. After all, he was just kissing her hand...that's so "adorable" and "romantic"...and how dare she (and her mother) not like it!

You also have to love how the media is framing it like ~Oh this poor (annoying) boy...he just had a little crush, and then the mean girl, mother, teachers (evil women) put a stop to it!". Why don't they talk about the girl's side? About how she had to deal with him constantly harassing her?

And of course the online comments are all blaming the Mom, because she's [insert insult here] for not allowing some sweet little romantic to bother her daughter.

I am just glad that someone out there is acting in the interest of the VICTIM for once. Can we please stop this "boys will boys" mentality?

Well, you know they mature slower than girls, so....there's another excuse.

 

[Tawny]

I'm sorry but we seem to keep trying to compare this situation to an adult sexual harassment situation, and IMVHO, that is absolutely absurd.

The little girl is not being taught that objecting to unwanted touching is going to get her ridiculed.

ETA: I Hope my post doesn't come across as snarky or disrespectful. I just think applying adult logic to small children is on the wrong path. MOO!

 

[Ladylub]

Sadly, this little girl is learning a lesson at an early age: Reject a boy, and you will face criticism and ridicule for it. A boy who makes unwanted "advances" on a girl is "cute" and if she doesn't like it, she's uptight. After all, he was just kissing her hand...that's so "adorable" and "romantic"...and how dare she (and her mother) not like it!

You also have to love how the media is framing it like ~Oh this poor (annoying) boy...he just had a little crush, and then the mean girl, mother, teachers (evil women) put a stop to it!". Why don't they talk about the girl's side? About how she had to deal with him constantly harassing her?

And of course the online comments are all blaming the Mom, because she's [insert insult here] for not allowing some sweet little romantic to bother her daughter.

I am just glad that someone out there is acting in the interest of the VICTIM for once. Can we please stop this "boys will boys" mentality?

I haven't seen any one ridiculing the little girl. She has a right to feel the way she does.

I teach my kids, if you are doing anything to someone else or their personal space the moment they say stop/no/quit etc you stop b/c its their body and personal space. My 6 yr old is still learning this, its something that comes with growing up. He does get in trouble if he does not stop but his punishment is appropriate and not labeled. The label of sexual harassment is what people take issue with. Annoying yes harassment just seems like to strong of a word to use here. He is still learning to deal with others and knowing about personal space. The adults involved are messing up a learning situation once again. If his mom is not teaching him about personal space then she is included in screwing up this learning situation.

A boy hugged and kissed my son at school. My son said he told the boy you hug and release like this... okay. The boy started hug and releasing how my son showed him. The teacher wrote a note to the other mom and I to let us know but said the boys handled it great. She said she was about to step in b/c she noticed 2 boys pushing away from him after a few seconds of the hug but she didn't have to b/c my son said ( this is the quote she wrote in the note) "dude like this.. hug and release not hug and hug next time okay?". They are in Kindergarten. When I asked my son all he said was "the hug was kind of long..... awkward.... but he is my bud gotta love him and all his crazy. I showed him hug and release."