sub shows Brokeback Mtn to 8th graders

[Marthatex]

I couldn't agree more, either.

 

[Nova]

Thanks, guys. I'm sure there isn't anything in what I posted that Kool Look doesn't already know. But I think it has to be said, every single time.

 

[Marthatex]

Christian schools use substitutes, surely. I feel the principal should have control no matter what size the school is, teachers and parents also. A school system should be run by the entire community as practical.

I know what you mean about the school years, it can be a great experience or a horror story. Overall, I believe schools do their very best the majority of the time. Just the few bad apples seem to sometimes outshine the good works and accomplishments of the just and righteous.

Well, I want a "just" teacher, but not particularly "righteous" one. I am offended when those who seem to think they are "holier than thou", start "preachin'" to me. Now if I've really broken a rule or law, that's different.

Regarding the schools, I think we're sometimes overlooking the "challenge" of some the students. These days they can be rude, disrespectful, unmotivated; a six-year-old will threaten a lawsuit these days. I am not kidding.

I've taught, and most of the teachers I've taught with are dedicated, loving and motivated people. Of course they make mistakes. Some are not as good; but I don't think it's all up to the Principal and the teachers - you've got to have motivated kids and helpful parents, and communication.

Movies shown to kids should definitely be communicated to the parents. But some will agree, some not, and "fighting" often ensues. I'm just sayin'

Regarding homosexuality, some people believe it is a sexual preference that people are born with. Some people believe it is a "sin".

I am of the former, but I think it's best to just respect the different opinions; there is no easy answer to it, and folks cannot change their sexuality.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Regarding homosexuality, some people believe it is a sexual preference that people are born with. Some people believe it is a "sin".

I think you're just born with it.

 

[Nova]

Regarding homosexuality, some people believe it is a sexual preference that people are born with. Some people believe it is a "sin".

I am of the former, but I think it's best to just respect the different opinions; there is no easy answer to it, and folks cannot change their sexuality.

As fair as that sounds, Martha, the problem is it isn't a matter of opinion. Science may not yet be able to prove whether sexual orientation is fixed before birth or in the first few years afterward. But there is no question that for the vast majority of people, sexual orientation is ingrained long before any "choice" is to be made.

Believing otherwise is simply ignorance.

Now some people choose to believe that despite the innate nature of sexual orientation, God commands that gay people remain celibate. Personally, I have no use for their petty, frightened little god.

 

[sherri79]

I think you're just born with it.

i think its a sin. i just dont think that what i believe should affect anyone. til god steps down and puts me in charge i dont get to judge anyone. i can only speak to my own actions. if people spent more time judging themselves the world would be a better place imo. besides if you keep your own sex life interesting you wont care so much about others.

 

[Nova]

i think its a sin. i just dont think that what i believe should affect you. til god steps down and puts me in charge i dont get to judge you. i can only speak to my own actions. if people spent more time judging themselves the world would be a better place imo. besides if you keep your own sex life interesting you wont care so much about others.

Well put, sherri. Why do you believe God is so condemning of private, consensual behavior between loving adults? (If you can answer. I realize it's difficult without getting into a lot of religious doctrine we're not supposed to discuss.)

 

[Ang50]

We went 4 pages w/o discussing homosexuality as a moral issue. I'm pretty impressed.

I for one don't care about any religious arguments. You want to judge, you want to think it's a sin, or a lifestyle choice, fine. You want to cite Leviticus while ignoring the shellfish and pork and menstruation laws, fine.

But when those moral judgements/arguments begin to dictate or influence LAWS or policies, then it must be stopped. Laws should treat every loving adult couple equally and should celebrate and support that relationship. Period.

 

[Marthatex]

Man, we're all different, God or A Higher Power, helped make us the we are, and maybe nature finished the job.

Each of us is a miracle, and so are other animals. Why can't we see the BEAUTIFUL in each person, not the negative, or what we perceive to be negative?

It's wrong to HURT, RAPE OR KILL OTHERS. Heterosexuals do that alot, homosexuals can do it too. We shouldn't harm others.

It's the goodness and the person inside that I look for, and that's why I'm friends with several gays. It matters not to me; it's the PERSON that matters. Life is too short to deal with things that rarely hurt anyone, except for the person who feels "different".

 

[sherri79]

Well put, sherri. Why do you believe God is so condemning of private, consensual behavior between loving adults? (If you can answer. I realize it's difficult without getting into a lot of religious doctrine we're not supposed to discuss.)

2 reasons. 1 and this 1 my faith is unsure on. i dont claim to know exactly what god thinks or wants. 1 passage about man laid with man. i know there is a chance i could be misreading it. when i was a child my father would read a passage about the 12 tribes of israel and use it as why interracial relationships are wrong. i read it totally different. i think what each person takes from the bible is between them and god. its a private relationship. 2. sex outside of marriage. i personally dont care what the state says. if 2 people commit before god they are married. a piece of paper with a pretty stamp from the state is not what makes it marriage. when 2 people commit before god they are married in my eyes. many people now gay or straight no longer feel the need for this and in both those cases i think it is the same sin. if i crossed the line mods please delete this post and know i did not intend to offend nor debate the beliefs of others. i just want to explain how in 1 thread i can say its a crime to harass some1 who is gay and in another say its a sin.

 

[sherri79]

We went 4 pages w/o discussing homosexuality as a moral issue. I'm pretty impressed.

I for one don't care about any religious arguments. You want to judge, you want to think it's a sin, or a lifestyle choice, fine. You want to cite Leviticus while ignoring the shellfish and pork and menstruation laws, fine.

But when those moral judgements/arguments begin to dictate or influence LAWS or policies, then it must be stopped. Laws should treat every loving adult couple equally and should celebrate and support that relationship. Period.

:clap: :clap: :clap: i dont want the law in my sex life anymore than any1 else.

 

[Ang50]

:clap: :clap: :clap: i dont want the law in my sex life anymore than any1 else.

Exactly. And I'd be pretty upset if the state said I couldn't marry the person I loved and was having sex with. Hubby and I were married by the state, because the state confers the benefits that we were seeking. i.e. health decisions, social security benefits, etc. We got married in a ceremony in front of people we love, because that is how you solemnize a commitment and how people support you in that commitment. It shouldn't have mattered if I married a man or a woman - just that we love each other and committed to each other.

If we had been religious, then we would have had a minister/priest/rabbi and been in a church/temple/synagogue. It's not us. If that religion would not have married us, then I would have gone elsewhere. But the religion is private and can do that. The state should not.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

<snip> Now some people choose to believe that despite the innate nature of sexual orientation, God commands that gay people remain celibate. Personally, I have no use for their petty, frightened little god.

Oh heck, why did you have to go and say that for? I was really enjoying the things you had to say, matter of fact some was pretty darn brilliant until that comment...Oh well

Judge not lest ye be Judged.

 

[Ntegrity]

I don't want to watch two cowboys bumping and grinding and shaking their tent, so I chose not to watch the movie in question. I would be livid if it were shown to my children in school without my permission and would probably consider a lawsuit (and I'm not typically lawsuit-happy).

I have to believe that homosexuality is a sin because that's what the Bible says about it and I don't think I should argue with my Creator. HOWEVER, that very same book tells me that I'm not to judge my fellow man -- so that's how I try to handle it. Once I become a perfect person, I'll be qualified to work on perfecting everyone else around me. I have several acquaintances who are gay. I don't discuss my sex life with them and they don't discuss theirs with me. We get along just fine.

I'm torn about homosexuality. I know it occurs in other animal species besides man so I'm pretty certain there is a genetic or hormonal reason for it. HOWEVER ,(love that word ) I do think for some people it is a conscious choice and not necessarily true homosexuality. There are lots of people who get their jollies from perverse behavior.

 

[IrishMist]

Oh heck, why did you have to go and say that for? I was really enjoying the things you had to say, matter of fact some was pretty darn brilliant until that comment...Oh well

Judge lest ye be Judged.

I can't speak for Nova, but I do agree with what he said.

That version of God... the petty, frightened one? I've no use for, either.

My version of God? The loving, wise, caring one. The one that formed my soul and Nova's, and didn't make a mistake on either one.

IMO, the petty, frightened one was made in man's image.

 

[narlacat]

Oh heck, why did you have to go and say that for? I was really enjoying the things you had to say, matter of fact some was pretty darn brilliant until that comment...Oh well

Judge not lest ye be Judged.

I cant find Novas post that you quoted here- but I couldnt have said it better myself Nova

God fearing I ain't

ps he is also a very jealous little God! (as well as petty and frightened)

 

[Ang50]

I cant find Novas post that you quoted here- but I couldnt have said it better myself Nova

God fearing I ain't

ps he is also a very jealous little God! (as well as petty and frightened)

I'm not a fan of the Old Testament God - the one that laid down the Levitical laws including "man shall not lie with a man". He's jealous, vengeful and makes a lot of orders that shouldn't be followed. I.e. slaying entire villages including children.

The New Testament God - depends on who's telling me about him.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I can't speak for Nova, but I do agree with what he said.

That version of God... the petty, frightened one? I've no use for, either.

My version of God? The loving, wise, caring one. The one that formed my soul and Nova's, and didn't make a mistake on either one.

IMO, the petty, frightened one was made in man's image.

I'm not really up for a religious debate as I'm sure most of us arn't. I thought that Nova was doing very well getting his point across with out the belittling of any version of God....BTW, did I say I thought that teacher was wrong to show a R-rated movie to an 8th grade class? YEP, you better believe it, and though I hate to admit it, my 8th grader would just as soon watch SpongeBob the Movie :blushing:

 

[southcitymom]

....I'm torn about homosexuality. I know it occurs in other animal species besides man so I'm pretty certain there is a genetic or hormonal reason for it. ......

The Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality - it doesn't truly even have the language to discuss it today that we do today.

There's a great little book called What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality by Daniel Helminiak if you are at all interested in the subject....and if you're not, that's cool too!

 

[Nova]

2 reasons. 1 and this 1 my faith is unsure on. i dont claim to know exactly what god thinks or wants. 1 passage about man laid with man. i know there is a chance i could be misreading it. when i was a child my father would read a passage about the 12 tribes of israel and use it as why interracial relationships are wrong. i read it totally different. i think what each person takes from the bible is between them and god. its a private relationship. 2. sex outside of marriage. i personally dont care what the state says. if 2 people commit before god they are married. a piece of paper with a pretty stamp from the state is not what makes it marriage. when 2 people commit before god they are married in my eyes. many people now gay or straight no longer feel the need for this and in both those cases i think it is the same sin. if i crossed the line mods please delete this post and know i did not intend to offend nor debate the beliefs of others. i just want to explain how in 1 thread i can say its a crime to harass some1 who is gay and in another say its a sin.

Thank you for the thoughtful response, sherri. (Dear Mods, I hope you'll allow this brief diversion into near-religious territory. And if not, I hope you'll blame me. I asked and I think sherri's response is thoughtful and free of religious rhetoric.)

I don't think you are misreading Leviticus, sherri. (Your dad was, but as you say, that's a different matter.) But since you are obviously quite thoughtful about what you believe, I hope you will consider that the brief prohibition in Leviticus sits among a number of rules that no Christian follows nowadays: prohibition of pork, shell fish, weaving two types of cloth, shaving before church, etc. The prohibition against all non-procreative sexuality in that book makes sense when one considers the Israelites were a tiny tribe surrounded by larger, hostile neighbors. No wonder the author(s) of the book wanted to ban anything that might keep the Jews from increasing their numbers. But low population is hardly a problem today.

Your other point is a quite clear endorsement of loving relationships over meaningless encounters. After 30 years with the same wonderful man, I hope you'll believe me that gays are quite capable of the former. (The town where I live is sort of a "Mecca" for gay couples. You would find many, many couples just like us here.) Just as with heterosexuals, a social climate that favors partnerships helps to promote them.

(Personally, I don't think casual sex is a "sin," per se. And I don't think there is anything wrong with remaining single. But there are special blessings that come to couples and those are as likely to come from God as anywhere else, I reckon.)

Anyway, thank you for the thoughtful answer.