SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August

[Tricksy]

My heart goes out to Todd & Dana, who truly believe the right three killed Michael.

I can't even imagine the pain they feel right now

I agree.

Even though I have a different opinion of this case to you, I sincerely feel for this family.

 

[Cappuccino]

I'm still trying to understand this plea deal. If Baldwin didn't want to go ahead with it, why did his lawyers advise him to take the deal? Couldn't they have let Echols & Misskelley plead guilty and go free and let Baldwin go ahead with the hearing and potential trial? Why was it all 3 or nothing? :waitasec:

The state probably wouldn't have accepted the deal for the other two if they were still going to have to go through with a trial, and still have all the risk of being sued by Jason Baldwin afterwards. Ellington has already had to state publically that he believes these three are homicidal maniacs, but he's letting them go free to save the state money, so that already makes him look like a piece of crap. If he didn't even have the money incentive, there would be no reason for him to agree to it, he'd be better off losing at trial, at least that way he could say he tried to keep them in.

 

[Tricksy]

Steve Branch was also against it right? So who supported the release?

=======

In a courtroom outburst, Steve Branch, father of murder victim Stevie Branch, rose to his feet and protested the deal.

"If you go through with this, you're going to open Pandora's Box. ... You're wrong, Your Honor. You can stop it right now before you do it," shouted Branch, who believes the three defendants are guilty.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/aug/19/west-memphis-three-free/

I am not 100% sure who supported the release. IIRR, The 3 boys families included step and biological parents, so off top of my head, I wouldn't like to say. Perhaps more information will be forthcoming, but obviously Steve Branch and the Moore family did not support the release. At one time I did hear that Rick Murray, Pamela Hobbs and J M Byers had doubts about the convictions, but whether or not they supported the actual releases, I do not know. I am afraid I cannot help you there more than that.

In West Memphis, debate continues over guilt of '3'



Some very strong opinions.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/aug/19/west-memphis-debate-continues-over-guilt-3/

Yes. The case and yesterday's events certainly seem to provoke a strong reaction in people.

 

[Cappuccino]

John Mark Byers definitely supported their release, he made that quite clear in the interviews he gave yesterday. Pam Hobbs said she was confused and didn't know what to make of it.

As for Rick Murray - the last I heard of him, he was accusing Byers of the murders.

 

[Luckymanuh]

I feel it all comes down to the money. If they would have been released based on they never committed the crime and spent all those years in prison they could turn around and sue the state of Arkansas. It has happened here in IL many of times. They put them in a catch 22. Do you want your freedom? Do you want to get off death row today? Then here is the key to unlock that cell door BUT you need to claim your guilty and stay out of trouble or back to prison you go! I know it sounds crazy but unfortunately the State of Arkansas had them right where they wanted them. This way the State still has not admitted they falsely imprisoned 3 men for 1/2 of their adult life, but being the DNA showed they did not commit the crime they did the right thing and let them go but made them admit to guilty instead of the State of Arkansas. This is my opinion. I think it is a travesty. They are either innocent or not, they should be in prison or not. These word games the State played to cover their butts is so wrong.

 

[Tricksy]

John Mark Byers definitely supported their release, he made that quite clear in the interviews he gave yesterday. Pam Hobbs said she was confused and didn't know what to make of it.

As for Rick Murray - the last I heard of him, he was accusing Byers of the murders.

Thanks for that, I haven't seen those interviews as yet.

 

[casseole]

Quoting your post again: I know I asked you about your research and I stumbled across the callahan website I have visited long ago and rediscovered all the links. Off to figure out how I really feel about all this.

Callahan is one of the best websites by far. That's where I started. Thank you for the link for wm3truth. Its interesting to look at it from both a "guilty" and "innocent" stand point.

 

[~n/t~]

I fell it all comes down to the money. If they would have been released based on they never committed the crime and spent all those years in prison they could turn around and sue the state of Arkansas. It has happened here in IL many of times. They put them in a catch 22. Do you want your freedom? Do you want to get off death row today? Then here is the key to unlock that cell door BUT you need to claim your guilty and stay out of trouble or back to prison you go! I know it sounds crazy but unfortunately the State of Arkansas had them right where they wanted them. This way the State still has not admitted they falsely imprisoned 3 men for 1/2 of their adult life, but being the DNA showed they did not commit the crime they did the right thing and let them go but made them admit to guilty instead of the State of Arkansas. This is my opinion. I think it is a travesty. They are either innocent or not, they should be in prison or not. These word games the State played to cover their butts is so wrong.

I'm jumping off your post and hope you don't mind. You brought up DNA. Let's talk about what DNA they have that could have potentially exonerated and proven them innocent without a reasonable doubt.

I heard it was 2 hairs. One belonging to Hobbs? and the other to a friend of his? Anything else?

 

[~n/t~]

John Mark Byers definitely supported their release, he made that quite clear in the interviews he gave yesterday. Pam Hobbs said she was confused and didn't know what to make of it.

As for Rick Murray - the last I heard of him, he was accusing Byers of the murders.

LOL he was out there like a preacher on a mission. :innocent:

 

[Cappuccino]

Thanks for that, I haven't seen those interviews as yet.

The Byers interview is quite explosive. Be warned - there's some strong language involved!

 

[Cappuccino]

I'm jumping off your post and hope you don't mind. You brought up DNA. Let's talk about what DNA they have that could have potentially exonerated and proven them innocent without a reasonable doubt.

I heard it was 2 hairs. One belonging to Hobbs? and the other to a friend of his? Anything else?

An unknown negroid hair, touch DNA from three individuals on Christopher's sneakers, a hair in Michael Moore's wallet, a foreign allele on Stevie Branch's genitals.

I think thats it, I'm sure someone else will jump in if I've forgotten something.

 

[~n/t~]

An unknown negroid hair, touch DNA from three individuals on Christopher's sneakers, a hair in Michael Moore's wallet, a foreign allele on Stevie Branch's genitals.

I think thats it, I'm sure someone else will jump in if I've forgotten something.

Were the unknowns and touch DNA excluded from forensic examination personnel, LE, or CSI on the scene? ie cross contamination?

 

[SyraKelly]

I feel it all comes down to the money. If they would have been released based on they never committed the crime and spent all those years in prison they could turn around and sue the state of Arkansas. It has happened here in IL many of times. They put them in a catch 22. Do you want your freedom? Do you want to get off death row today? Then here is the key to unlock that cell door BUT you need to claim your guilty and stay out of trouble or back to prison you go! I know it sounds crazy but unfortunately the State of Arkansas had them right where they wanted them. This way the State still has not admitted they falsely imprisoned 3 men for 1/2 of their adult life, but being the DNA showed they did not commit the crime they did the right thing and let them go but made them admit to guilty instead of the State of Arkansas. This is my opinion. I think it is a travesty. They are either innocent or not, they should be in prison or not. These word games the State played to cover their butts is so wrong.

your right on!!!-I call this BRIBERY the legal way!!JMO

 

[Cappuccino]

Were the unknowns and touch DNA excluded from forensic examination personnel, LE, or CSI on the scene? ie cross contamination?

No. And now I remember, there were foreign alleles on both Stevie and Michael's genitals. Sorry - memory lapse.

 

[dr dona]

The entire proceedings yesterday shocked the heck out of me. I personally feel the WM3 were railroaded. But, I thought the state of Arkansas would blocked every move towards exoneration. I have never heard of an Alford plea in any case involoving a homicide, let alone 3 homicides. This leads me to wonder if the DT found more DNA than we know about. For myself. I would love to do touch DNA on the shoelaces. Kids shoelaces are that skinny- my hubie could never tie them right because of his big guy hands. Perhaps the perps did not wear gloves and left touch DNA evidence on the laces. If I had a gazillion dollars I'd love the test be done . At least something else had to be going on oe the Prosecutor would never agree to this.

 

[Cappuccino]

Sadly, I don't think there's anything else going on. I think the state of Arkansas wanted this embarrassing monkey off their backs, and they found a face saving way to do it, and avoid law suits at the same time.

As far as the state is concerned the case is now closed, if there's any further investigating it will have to come from the defense/supporters side.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Pensfan could be talking about the silly tweens that claimed to have heard Damien "confess" at the softball park. They seem a lot like Abigail of Salem Witch Trial fame to me. One of Damien's defense mechanisms before he was unjustly incarcerated was sarcasm, like many teens. That's what the tweens heard, nothing more. Not to mention the fact that they were eavesdropping on the conversation, not a part of it. They possibly heard nothing.

As to the "look" or whatever seen from Damien during the press conference, you've got to remember he'd just spent over 18 years in virtual isolation. He was probably unsure and uncomfortable with as many people around as there were at the PC. If's possible that you could have seen him licking his lips. It's an unconscious gesture. It's meaningless. Do you want someone observing your every mannerism and reading something nefarious into it? Just sayin' . . .

 

[~n/t~]

Sadly, I don't think there's anything else going on. I think the state of Arkansas wanted this embarrassing monkey off their backs, and they found a face saving way to do it, and avoid law suits at the same time.

As far as the state is concerned the case is now closed, if there's any further investigating it will have to come from the defense/supporters side.

They didn't bring the deal to the table. The defense did. Yes it would have cost the State a lot of money to start a new trial and a heck of a lot of resources to try to reconstruct an 18 year old case, some witnesses are gone, others probably have limited recollection of what happened but I do believe if it ever did go to trial, they would have been found guilty AGAIN. A risk the defense did not want to take hence the bargaining and where we are today.

State: Case closed. The persons responsible were convicted and plead guilty.

Defense: Innocent without a trial. Echols and Baldwin pleaded to three counts of first-degree murder; Miskelley to one count of first-degree murder and two counts of second-degree murder.

18 years. Time served. The end.

 

[Cappuccino]

I do believe if it ever did go to trial, they would have been found guilty AGAIN.

Scott Ellington disagrees with you, and so does Judge Laser. However, if new trials were granted, the state could have spun it out for a year or two and kept them in prison all that time. So the defense wanted them out of prison, the state didn't want to get the pants sued off them, this deal suits both of them. Its not justice, its just political and financial expediency.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

<modsnip>

BTW, Cappuccino, I didn't see anything you missed as to DNA. They were also retesting the fibers by newer methods and were testing the "animal hairs" found with the bodies. I don't know when/if we will ever know the results of that testing. I am hopeful that it will be released by the defense - after all three are safely out of Arkansas!