Taking the veil

  • #121
<Cultural diversity is one of the things I miss living in the boonies.>

ahh.. be careful what you wish for, windover.

and remember- cultural diversity is everywhere, if you look for it. everyone's culture is diverse. culture doesn't always have to be foreign and 'exotic' to be worthwhile and interesting.
 
  • #122
<In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem.">

unbelievable! i rest my case.

this is perfect evidence of their sick, backwards mindset- and i'm sorry, but that is one religion/cult i won't be accepting of anytime soon (or, ever).
 
  • #123
one more thing (for now, lol).

if it is not the responsibility of the WOMEN in their culture to teach the young boys how to treat women (as equal human beings worthy of respect- whether they are veiled- OR NOT!) then who will do it? the men are too busy praying to allah every 5 minutes, with with their nose buried in the koran trying to decipher what mohammed may or may not have said 2,000 years ago.... looking for unveiled women to kill... and trying to blow up people. if the women aren't going to be teach their sons that THEY are responsible for their OWN self-restraint- and they should be acting like a civilized human beings- then again, who will?? it just seems like a vicious cycle with no end.
 
  • #124
Maral said:
Floh, the following links show that she is willing to remove the veil while teaching the students.

She said she would remove the garment, but not in front of male colleagues.
Link

Aishah Azmi insisted she had always been willing to remove the veil in front of children at Headfield Church of England junior school in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire - but would not do so while male colleagues were present.
Link

AXED Muslim teacher Aishah Azmi yesterday denied education chiefs' claims that she refused to remove her veil for her pupils.
Speaking for the first time since the Mirror told of her suspension, Mrs Azmi said she only insisted on covering her face for male teachers.
Link


My understanding is she always had a male colleague present - not the same one - in the classroom, so she would not remove the veil while she was being a teaching assistant to the children.
 
  • #125
reb said:
one more thing (for now, lol).

if it is not the responsibility of the WOMEN in their culture to teach the young boys how to treat women (as equal human beings worthy of respect- whether they are veiled- OR NOT!) then who will do it? the men are too busy praying to allah every 5 minutes, with with their nose buried in the koran trying to decipher what mohammed may or may not have said 2,000 years ago.... looking for unveiled women to kill... and trying to blow up people. if the women aren't going to be teach their sons that THEY are responsible for their OWN self-restraint- and they should be acting like a civilized human beings- then again, who will?? it just seems like a vicious cycle with no end.

reb, the writer in Maral's link goes too far, IMHO, when she insists that mistreatment of women has "nothing" to do with Islam. Of course it does in many places (though the Muslims I know personally are deeply spiritual people who, to my knowledge, commit none of the atrocities we associate with radical Islamofascism) even though she may rightfully believe such practices are a corruption of the Qu'ran.

But your remarks about men "praying to allah every 5 minutes, with their noses buried in the koran" are equally unfair. I believe Muslims are called to prayer (formally) six times per day. Most serious Christians would say they pray as often, I suspect, at least.
 
  • #126
OK, OK, i was exaggerating just for the sake of making a point, that's wasn't meant to be literal. as for the 'good' muslims- sure, there are many.. but why you would want to even remotely associate yourself with something that is associated with something so evil and twisted and wrong,, is beyond me. but then again, i don't know why people feel the need to be part of any religion in the first place... because it's all just interpretation and it all just ends up being one huge argument over who's the right one and who's the wrong one!
 
  • #127
Karole28 said:
While we're on the subject....


Muslim leader blames women for sex attacks
Richard Kerbaj
October 26, 2006
THE nation's most senior Muslim cleric has blamed immodestly dressed women who don't wear Islamic headdress for being preyed on by men and likened them to abandoned "meat" that attracts voracious animals.
In a Ramadan sermon that has outraged Muslim women leaders, Sydney-based Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali also alluded to the infamous Sydney gang rapes, suggesting the attackers were not entirely to blame.

While not specifically referring to the rapes, brutal attacks on four women for which a group of young Lebanese men received long jail sentences, Sheik Hilali said there were women who "sway suggestively" and wore make-up and immodest dress ... "and then you get a judge without mercy (rahma) and gives you 65 years".

"But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he asked.

The leader of the 2000 rapes in Sydney's southwest, Bilal Skaf, a Muslim, was initially sentenced to 55 years' jail, but later had the sentence reduced on appeal.

In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."



link to article

shocking article!

i'm in agreement with Aziza Abdel-Halim regarding the Australian Mufti's 'remarks': "They are below and beyond any comment (and) do not deserve any consideration."
 
  • #128
The guys an idiot Floh.

You would think he would be more interested in getting rid of rapist than blaming it on innocent women. He is saying women without veils are "loose" and asking for it. Some womans big brother should kick his butt every time he leaves the house and then explain to him how he was asking for it.
 
  • #129
That would be a great idea, Becba!

apparently the 'remarks are creating a storm:

Cleric 'meat' remarks spark fury

A senior Muslim cleric touched off outrage in Australia on Thursday for likening women who dress immodestly to meat that is left out for prey -- a comment critics said excused rape.
Prime Minister John Howard called the remarks "appalling and reprehensible."
"The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous," he told reporters.
A spokesman for Sheik Taj Aldin al Hilali said the cleric's comments in a sermon last month had been taken out of context in a report in The Australian newspaper. But the spokesman, Keysar Trad, didn't challenge the accuracy of the translation.


http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/26/australia.cleric.ap/index.html

Blah, blah, blah - "out of context"? difficult because apparently they can NOT 'challenge the accuracy of the translation'!

i wonder why this senior muslim cleric lives in such a free and easy land where he is tempted by uncovered meat at every turn?

shame on him.

aww, he's ill:

Sheik Hilali cancelled all prayers today at the mosque and remained ill in bed at his house in Lakemba, where he was treated by a doctor for a chest infection.

.....

A spokesman for Sheik Hilali said the backlash and criticism had badly affected him and he had been depressed and confined to bed all day, breathing with the assistance of an oxygen tank.

***

But he's very sorry for what he said:

"I unreservedly apologise to any woman who is offended by my comments. I had only intended to protect women's honour.

"Women in our Australian society have the freedom and the right to dress as they choose. Duty of many is to avert his glance or walk away," the statement read.

"If a man falls from grace and commits fornication then if this was consensual, they would be both guilty, but if it was forced, then the man has committed a capital crime.

"Whether a man endorses or not, a particular form of dress, any form of harassment of women is unacceptable."


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20649327-601,00.html

Now then, what's the reckoning he's 'sorry' because of this:

The leader of Australia's largest Islamic organisation has threatened to ban the country's most senior Muslim cleric from teaching at Lakemba Mosque, in Western Sydney, in reaction to the contents of a sermon delivered last month.
 
  • #130
Good to hear a muslim woman speaking out:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20648912-662,00.html

'I am no-one's meat'

Ms Hage-Ali left no doubt as to what she thought of Sheik Hilali's comments. ??"I take great offence at that. I am a Muslim woman, I don't wear a headscarf and I am no-one's meat." ??"I think the best response from him is to turn around and actually come out and apologise," Ms Hage-Ali said.
"Or come out and say 'this is what I meant, I apologise if it was misinterpreted', but set the record straight.
"And not only to the media and the Australian community, but to the people he gave his sermon to because that was his captive audience."



Well now he has apologised - but i find it difficult to believe his apology because i would have thought ministers for any religion think a great deal about sermons they are to give so surely the man would have put a lot of thought into what he said before he said it, thereby believing in it?


Ms Hage-Ali,*who doesn't wear a hijab, said she was offended by the comments and appealed to the Australian public not to interpret them as the views of most Muslims.
"I'm really hurt by the fact that we work so hard to mend the relationships with the broader community and get rid of those misconceptions that they have,'' Ms Hage-Ali said.
"A lot of people, and I'm not talking about myself, are working their end off trying to make a difference and one comment like this takes it back 10 years.
"It's so disencouraging (sic) that a comment like this makes all the work we've tried to do in vain and just reiterates some of the hard line, really right-wing view some people have of the Muslim community."


This lady's not for covering up!
 
  • #131
  • #132
Veil teacher was obeying a fatwa
Abul Taher



THE Muslim teacher who insisted on wearing a veil in class has been following a fatwa issued personally to her by a Islamic cleric belonging to a hardline sect.

Aishah Azmi found herself in the middle of a national row about integration when she took her school to an employment tribunal after it suspended her for refusing to remove the veil in class.

Tony Blair joined the debate about the wearing of veils — opened by Jack Straw, the Commons leader — and supported the school’s actions.

Azmi, 24, has maintained that her decision to wear the veil was driven entirely by her personal beliefs, rather than the advice or instruction of a third party. But this weekend it emerged that she refused to take the veil off at school after receiving a fatwa, or religious ruling, from Mufti Yusuf Sacha, a Muslim cleric in West Yorkshire.


more here
 
  • #133
so.............???? who cares, this is the 21th centrury. the basic laws of human civilization take precedence over their medieval religious demands. if they don't like it, they are all free to go live with each other in a cave somewhere.

there is no beating around the bush here-- at some point, western civilization MUST be brave and take a stand against these people and NOT allow them to drag us back to the dark ages!!!!!!
 
  • #134
Karole28 said:
Veil teacher was obeying a fatwa
Abul Taher



THE Muslim teacher who insisted on wearing a veil in class has been following a fatwa issued personally to her by a Islamic cleric belonging to a hardline sect.

Aishah Azmi found herself in the middle of a national row about integration when she took her school to an employment tribunal after it suspended her for refusing to remove the veil in class.

Tony Blair joined the debate about the wearing of veils — opened by Jack Straw, the Commons leader — and supported the school’s actions.

Azmi, 24, has maintained that her decision to wear the veil was driven entirely by her personal beliefs, rather than the advice or instruction of a third party. But this weekend it emerged that she refused to take the veil off at school after receiving a fatwa, or religious ruling, from Mufti Yusuf Sacha, a Muslim cleric in West Yorkshire.


more here

She's a lost cause following a dangerous fanatic:

Sacha’s ruling on the veil is disputed. Mufti Abdul Kadir Barkatullah, who is affiliated to the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “I am 100% sure that wearing the niqab is not obligatory on Muslim women — it is a matter of choice. It’s more about habit than religion. The Tablighis observe the niqab very strictly.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2426770,00.html
 
  • #135
Veil row teaching assistant fired:

A Muslim teaching assistant who was suspended for refusing to remove her veil in the classroom has been *sacked, sources said.

http://tinyurl.com/yflfos

This surprises me. but i feel it's correct for all the reasons i have thus far given in this thread.

*sacked = fired. British English.
 
  • #136
Floh said:
Veil row teaching assistant fired:

A Muslim teaching assistant who was suspended for refusing to remove her veil in the classroom has been *sacked, sources said.

http://tinyurl.com/yflfos

This surprises me. but i feel it's correct for all the reasons i have thus far given in this thread.

*sacked = fired. British English.


Hey. She had the choice. Her job or following a fatwa.

Sounds like firing her was the only option.
 
  • #137
She could have just taken a different muslim cleric as her leader, one that works off of the Koran, not archaic customs. The veil is not religious, it's related to old tribal customs that have been written in to the religion by some that I consider corrupted clerics.
 

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