The actual vs. desired outcome

[Holdontoyourhat]

Last time for me, too...the cord was bought at McGuckin's just before the murder, along with the tape. Just because there was none found AFTER the crime does not mean that it wasn't ON HAND to be used in the crime. It was there. If it was removed that night by a R, that is as good an explanation as any as to why it was not found. The RN was just one page from the pad. The pad wasn't seen as important. The Rs would never have thought that any one would question why it was there. They also never thought the INK on the sharpie pen would be tested to see if it matched the ink on the note. They felt it was plausible that the "intruder" would find handy materials to write the note (as opposed to bringing a note with him, as a REAL kidnapper would). Just as it was plausble that an "intruder" could commit the crime with materials that were handy.

You feel the cord is exihibit A. Yes. But I feel your logic is flawed. The pen and pad are used multiple times in the home. The cord is used just this once to strangle a child (though bought for another, as YET unused purpose). To say that because the rest of the cord was never found that it did not belong to the home and therefore had to be brought in by someone else just is not an absolute. It could very well have been there in the paint tote.

My logic is flawed, while I highlight in blue your rationalizations, or things you just made up to explain a phenomenon.

The phenomenon is not why the cord was not on hand the night of the murder, it is why the cord cannot be placed among household items. You imply that nobody spoke to anybody about a package of cord that was bought at the hardware store, for slings nobody knows anything about.

This is all an invention on your part.

 

[JMO8778]

it is why the cord cannot be placed among household items. You imply that nobody spoke to anybody about a package of cord that was bought at the hardware store

what was Patsy to have done? it's just a common, everyday item...she wouldn't have gone out to the street and yelled at the neighbors: hey,look, LOOK!!! I bought a package of CORD !!!!

 

[icedtea4me]

what was Patsy to have done? it's just a common, everyday item...she wouldn't have gone out to the street and yelled at the neighbors: hey,look, LOOK!!! I bought a package of CORD !!!!

Now, now. Didn't you know Patsy was known for walking down the street, ringing a bell, and announcing through a megaphone all the particular items she had purchased for that day?


-Tea

 

[JMO8778]

Now, now. Didn't you know Patsy was known for walking down the street, ringing a bell, and announcing through a megaphone all the particular items she had purchased for that day?


-Tea

ROFL.probably so...I can just imagine JR coming home from work,asking 'so what did you buy today?',and Patsy saying...'well,I was at McGuckins,and I found this fabulous cord for $2.29...I think I'll even show it to the housekeeper!'.

I bet the cashier even remembers her buying it...

 

[BBB167893]

You can't infer guilt on one person because other people kill thier kids.

He wasn't. He was specifically addressing those among his colleagues who said it wasn't possible for a parent to kill this way.

Is Ron Walker's argument that because other parents killed their kids in in various heinous ways, the R's therefore killed JBR?

No. His argument was that no matter how brutal a killing is, it can still be a family member, one who professes to LOVE the victim.

And weren't his statements to this effect even before the R's were tested for anything? Before any forensics were even done?

No. Those statements were made in 2000.

BTW, I'm guessing but I think if the chief of police really wanted to arrest the R's, they'd have been arrested.

And then do what with them, exactly? If the DA won't go for it, you're just wasting effort.

John Ramsey's lame excuse of the cops trying to frame him is ridiculous. One only has to view the videos of the interviews to see that as the lie it is.

Not only that, but he can't even keep it straight. John has often said that he and Patsy cooperated to the fullest with the cops. BUT, if you watch Mikey Tracy's first crock in 1998, in virtually the same breath, he says that the reason they didn't cooperate is because the cops were out to get them.

So which is it? Can't be both.

As do their fibers, all over JBR and her stuff.

And to this day, they can't come up with an explanation.

It kinda came and went with the murder. Very much like the child garroting, sexually assaulting, strangling, headbashing, ransom note writing personality, which also came and went with the murder. Maybe you've come to think the parents flick that personality on and off like a switch.

It's called the self-preservation. Not only that, but when I get really mad, you'd swear I was a different person.

Cutting off her breath isn't staging, is it? I mean, thats murder, right? Willfully applying force using a ligature is real strangulation, not staged strangulation, right?

It is if you KNOW that the person isn't dead yet.

Before I need to explain R fibers on an R, you need to explain in somewhat less weak terms how the cord is recently purchased, not yet used for the innocent purpose, AND suddenly all used up after the murder.

Holdon, all I can say is that, from personal experience, if I had a nickel for every time I acquired something for a specific reason and didn't get around to it, only to use it for an unforeseen purpose, my piggy bank would runneth over.

 

[DeeDee249]

Holdon, I rather resent the term "invent". These are ALL opinions here, whether we are RDI or IDI. NONE of us was there. ( as far as we know- I have my doubts). So NONE of us knows FOR SURE what the cord was bought for, or who brought it in to the home. We don't know what happened that night. This is a DISCUSSION of our ideas and thoughts on the matter. I resent being accused of making up things. I am very-well researched on this case, but I am not infallible. Are you?

 

[JMO8778]

I have my doubts,too !

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdon, all I can say is that, from personal experience, if I had a nickel for every time I acquired something for a specific reason and didn't get around to it, only to use it for an unforeseen purpose, my piggy bank would runneth over.

That sounds like a good explanation. But wait, its really not an explanation at all. Its a rationalization. That's where you make up a story about PR buying cord, not yet used it, improvised it as staging to coverup an accident, and got rid of all the leftovers. Its all a baseless fiction.

You need to make up a story to account for the stark, glaring fact the cord can't be placed among household items as easily as the pen, paper, or paintbrush.

It really is stark and glaring, the cord appears only on JBR and nowhere else. Nobody knows anything about any painting slings or cord purchases. Nobody in the house, nobody connected to the house, no family, no friends, no store clerk, no painting buddy. Nobody. The painting sling story is so far out there it might as well be in outer space.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdon, I rather resent the term "invent". These are ALL opinions here, whether we are RDI or IDI. NONE of us was there. ( as far as we know- I have my doubts). So NONE of us knows FOR SURE what the cord was bought for, or who brought it in to the home. We don't know what happened that night. This is a DISCUSSION of our ideas and thoughts on the matter. I resent being accused of making up things. I am very-well researched on this case, but I am not infallible. Are you?

I think what you're saying is this: if PR accidentally killed JBR, then she had to have originally bought the cord for another purpose, right?

Of course, this presumes PR accidentally killed JBR, and then forces a conclusion on where the cord came from.

It would've helped RDI accident/coverup if we did know for sure what the cord was bought for, and who brought it into the home. It makes more sense in IDI than in RDI for us not to know who brought the cord into the house.

 

[UKGuy]

OMG

Last time, guys.

The cord was the murder weapon, right? Not the tape, pen, paper, paintbrush, or fiber, right? The cord is a very important piece of evidence. It would be Exhibit A.

Along comes accident/coverup theory. The achilles heel of this theory is that all evidence needs to be on hand the night of the murder. Pen, paper, paintbrush all shown to be on hand, so far so good. But when it comes to the important Exhibit A, the materials used to make it cannot be shown to be on hand. Its like the theory has doors, windows, tires and wheels, but no motor.

Holdontoyourhat,

The cord was the murder weapon, right?

You still making stuff up as you go along? Just where did you read that cord was the murder weapon? Not it the autopsy report I'll bet since it states:

CLINICOPATHLOGIC CORRELATION: Cause of death of this six year old
female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral
trauma.

Note the cause of death does not state whether the strangulation is a result of manual or ligature strangulation?

Why do you assume that there was cord left, the cord used may represent all that was available, so there is nothing left to put back in its place.

Did the fictional intruder remove JonBenet's size-6 underwear as a trophy, or was she never wearing any, so being a kind and thoughtful intruder he wiped JonBenet down and redressed her in size-12 underwear bearing the same day of the week?

Maybe he took the size-6's because they contained the intruders dna but the writing pad did not because gloves were used to hold that?


.

 

[JMO8778]

why would an intruder bring nothing with him but a thin cord,total cost $2.29,anyway? And if his plan was to make a garrote all along,why not bring a stick along as well? Holdon,you mention:

ppr
pen
paintbrush
cord

3 out of 4 items come from the household,and a receipt for the same price and type of cord matches the cord found on the victim,and that matches an item that Patsy bought,from that same store,that very same month.coincidence?

 

[coloradokares]

That sounds like a good explanation. But wait, its really not an explanation at all. Its a rationalization. That's where you make up a story about PR buying cord, not yet used it, improvised it as staging to coverup an accident, and got rid of all the leftovers. Its all a baseless fiction.

You need to make up a story to account for the stark, glaring fact the cord can't be placed among household items as easily as the pen, paper, or paintbrush.

It really is stark and glaring, the cord appears only on JBR and nowhere else. Nobody knows anything about any painting slings or cord purchases. Nobody in the house, nobody connected to the house, no family, no friends, no store clerk, no painting buddy. Nobody. The painting sling story is so far out there it might as well be in outer space.

I have shopped McGuckins and ITS A DUCK

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdontoyourhat,

You still making stuff up as you go along? Just where did you read that cord was the murder weapon? Not it the autopsy report I'll bet since it states:

Note the cause of death does not state whether the strangulation is a result of manual or ligature strangulation?

Its a leap away from what was apparent at the crime scene, to believe JBR was not murdered by ligature/garrote strangulation. If it walks like a duck...

Why do you assume that there was cord left, the cord used may represent all that was available, so there is nothing left to put back in its place.

Here's where RDI accident/coverup scenario is caught in the middle. If PR used the last of the cord in making the garrote, then there should be evidence of other uses for the cord found elsewhere. If PR used new cord from the 'not yet used for the innocent purpose' roll, then there should be the wrapper, and unused roll left. Since there's no evidence of either, its a leap away from the apparent to believe the cord belonged to the house.

 

[JMO8778]

Its a leap away from what was apparent at the crime scene, to believe JBR was not murdered by ligature/garrote strangulation. If it walks like a duck...

what walks like a duck is apparently manual strangulation marks on her neck,including what I believe to be a thumbprint,(per Solace here),which is the mark that the autopsy says is about the size of a quarter.
In a 3 page report,forensics expert Dr Werner Spitz says she was manually strangled first,with her shirt collar being twisted, and the perp's knuckles causing the abrasions on her neck.This is consistent with a rage type attack.(ST's JonBenet,hardback,p. 228)

..and to further compound that,in the next paragraph,Dr Spitz goes on to say:

Then came the devestating head blow,followed by the garrote strangulation.The detectives felt this could have been done to ensure death,or as part of a staging.It was agreed that the cord around the throat was applied to a victim who offered little or no resistance,probably as she lay grieviously wounded by the head injury.

Here's where RDI accident/coverup scenario is caught in the middle. If PR used the last of the cord in making the garrote, then there should be evidence of other uses for the cord found elsewhere.

not if she hadn't gotten around to using it yet.how do we know she hadn't planned on using it that same night?

If PR used new cord from the 'not yet used for the innocent purpose' roll, then there should be the wrapper, and unused roll left. Since there's no evidence of either, its a leap away from the apparent to believe the cord belonged to the house.

I don't know any way to say this other than WELL HELL,the RAMSEYS proved they removed evidence from the house when they returned the package of size 12 underwear.....!!!! How much more does it take????:slap: :bang:and if that ain't the smoking gun,I don't know what is...

repeat after me: why did JR want his golf bag?why did JR want his golf bag?why did JR want his golf bag?
..and so on,and so forth...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdontoyourhat,

You still making stuff up as you go along? Just where did you read that cord was the murder weapon? Not it the autopsy report I'll bet since it states:

.

Besides, I don't think you can claim I'm making stuff up, when I call the cord the murder weapon. I'm going along with what the crime appears to be. I never made up the idea JBR was murdered with the cord. It just looks that way.

Would you claim I was making stuff up if I told you the two dented cars in the intersection just crashed into each other?

I am, on the other hand, claiming PR's trip to the hardware store to buy 2.29 worth of cord is just made up.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I don't know any way to say this other than WELL HELL,the RAMSEYS proved they removed evidence from the house when they returned the package of size 12 underwear.....!!!! How much more does it take????:slap: :bang:and if that ain't the smoking gun,I don't know what is...

repeat after me: why did JR want his golf bag?why did JR want his golf bag?why did JR want his golf bag?
..and so on,and so forth...

I'm no expert on the underwear or JR's golf bag, but I don't think they weigh in as heavily as crime scene evidence like the cord of unknown source does.

 

[DeeDee249]

This board seems to be dying a slow death....I wonder why? We are down to 1 or 2 updated threads a day. Any thoughts? I know I have.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Maybe we need an opposites day thread.

Where instead of everything as they are generally accepted to be (coverup staging for accidental death rage assault), everything is the opposite (foreign faction attempted kidnapping, turned sexual assault and murder).

 

[JMO8778]

Maybe we need an opposites day thread.

Where instead of everything as they are generally accepted to be (coverup staging for accidental death rage assault), everything is the opposite (foreign faction attempted kidnapping, turned sexual assault and murder).

that would work well in a science fiction forum.
Holdon,would you care to tell us why you so badly need for there to be an 'intruder'?

 

[JMO8778]

I'm no expert on the underwear or JR's golf bag, but I don't think they weigh in as heavily as crime scene evidence like the cord of unknown source does.

you're ignoring evidence if you ignore the fact they did indeed remove evidence from the house,as well as why JR was so worried about getting his golf clubs..it was the middle of winter!
but you still haven't told us why you're not mentioning the tape.